WI Facist UK

[Blackadder mk 2]

I'm thinking of making a TL where the UK becomes facist after the Great Depression

Basically the party is founded by a guy who lost a leg at the Somme who in OTL died

But is it possible even if Britain still wins WWI and the fascists need to be in by or before Hitlers rise to power

Many thanks

[TheNordicBrit]

Highly unlikely. The best bet fascism ever really had in Britain was the British Union of Fascists when it wasn't anti-semitic. Even then if Mosley managed to keep Joyce and other anti-Semites at bay, and even if he managed to unite all fascist parties under a single party, then I could imagine them getting 10 MPs at the most. Even that number is slightly implausible. Though if WW2 didn't occur then we are likely to see fascism rise slowly, then fall slowly.

[RogueBeaver]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even the Conservative Party had more than a few backbenchers, who if not Fascists, were not unfavourable to a "live and let live" arrangement with Hitler IIRC. Not that the frontbench such as Baldwin, Chamberlain, Churchill or the Cabinet would even contemplate it, but mild pro-German sentiment could be contained within the Tory Party.

[The Viscount Cranleigh]

Unlikely, yes, but don't let that stop you; if it's well-written enough, the implausibilities can be swept under the carpet.

[I Blame Communism]

I am of course obliged to plus EdT's Fight and be Right, which explores how to build something like fascism but differant, a native growth and not a mere imitation of Italy, with the divergance getting started in the 1880s. It's a spiffing read!

[Blackadder mk 2]

At some point I will show the first 3 chapters of the planned thread that way if there is a problem I can correct it earlier. I have a plan in my head but I'm trying to figure out how he could solve the Depression and get into power without it being ASB.

Fight and be Right is something I have read but I was lost by the time I reached Red Britain. Like which colonies did they keep?

[EdT]

Originally Posted by Blackadder mk 2

I'm thinking of making a TL where the UK becomes facist after the Great Depression

Basically the party is founded by a guy who lost a leg at the Somme who in OTL died

But is it possible even if Britain still wins WWI and the fascists need to be in by or before Hitlers rise to power.

The earlier you do it, the easier it is, in a way. I'll repost something I wrote a long time ago on this subject below, as it's quite relevant I think.

"The closest thing Britain has to plausible, mainstream Fascism with a chance of power isn't to be found on the lunatic fringe- you're better off looking at the less democratic elements of the establishment such as the "backwoodsmen" of the 1911-1912 constitutional crisis. As Phillips says in this article in the JBS and in a longer book that I know he wrote on the subject but I can't find the reference for, far from being inbred rural idiots the obstructionist peers were actually very politically active and can be seen as the driving force of the radical right in Britain.

The 'backwoodsmen' of the 1910's were not reactionary old duffers of the sort that enabled the rise of Fascism in say Germany, seeing them as a good means of stopping a Communist seizure of power- they were the radical right and had the same simultaneous distaste for democracy and liking for large government that the Fascists did. There were differences of course, which is why I'd term them proto-fascists rather then fascists per se, but the similarities are striking. Of course there were plenty of 'Sir Bufton Tufton' characters in the Lords as well, but to lump these reactionaries in with the radical right is a big mistake, although an easy one to make.

These peers, and others like them could certainly be described as Fascist, or at least proto-Fascist- they were deeply concerned with the apparent moral and economic decline of Britain compared to other great powers, and advocated national rebirth through a dramatic expansion of the armed forces, the establisment of a welfare state, curtailment of the Unions and Labour in general, etc etc.

How to get them, and others like them in power in the interwar period? The general strike seems the best bet. The best thing I can recommend is to read this thread from SHWI. It's brilliant stuff, and gives a pretty definitive conclusion on the best way to get a Fascist (or at least Fascist-syle) Britain in the 1920's and 1930's.

My point is that there's really no plausible way (short of a PoD sometime in the 19th century) that you're going to get traditional continental-style Fascism in inter-war Britain with jackboots, a rejection of many elements of past society and friendship with Germany. It is however very (actually scarily) easy to get yourself a Britain that could objectively be called Fascist in the period, although it would not use that term to describe itself.

I'd argue that Fascism, being an essentially nationalist phenomenon, is obviously going to differ sharply in its different national incarnations- contrast Nazism to Italian Fascism or the Spanish Falange. Each shares some basic similarities but differ widely in style and detail. British Fascism is naturally going to be as dependent on the national myth, perceptions of nationhood and national character etc as any other form of Fascism. In Britain's case, this means unswerving support for the Empire, the Monarchy etc.

Such a movement isn't going to have a revolutionary tinge as in Germany or Italy, instead it needs to come from authority. We're not talking mass rallies, dodgy racial theories and all the trappings of Nazism here though- British *Fascism is going to be more "Pomp and circumstance" then "Horst Wessel Lied". Think Ian McKellen in Richard III, although more subtle."

Originally Posted by Blackadder mk 2

Fight and be Right is something I have read but I was lost by the time I reached Red Britain. Like which colonies did they keep?

The stuff set later is a bit of a distraction, thought that will be fleshed out in time- reasonably soon now. There is a map on my deviantart page btw but I try not to go on about it too much as it's spoilerific.