Budapest 1956/Prague 1968-outside intervention

[Melvin Loh]

Was there any way during the popular anti-Communist Hungarian 1956 and Czech 1968 revolts that the US and NATO could have provided meaningful assistance to the rebels against the Red Army, without triggering all-out nuclear war with the USSR and WARPAC ?

[aktarian]

No. Both sides understood Europe is zero sum game. For one side to gain other has to loose. and that woun't be taken lightly. Both sides considered happenings in other camp as not-our-business.

What could happen (long stretch) is that in 1956 Yugoslavia get's involved somehow. Perhaps Sovs decide to teach Tito a lessons and cross into Yugoslavia in force (they did cross in OTL on several ocasions but due to navigatioanl errors). Not much, just to show they are top dogs. Yugoslavs don't take this lightlly and some fighting erupts. Altough even if this happens both sides (and others) will try to calm things down.

[MerryPrankster]

Luka,

Yugoslavia getting involved is an interesting idea. Perhaps Khruschev gets ambitious and decides to quell ALL European Communist dissidents and goes after Yugoslavia too. In the immortal words of The Tick, "Bad move, Neil."

The Yugoslavs, though much weaker than the Sovs, were tough and Nicky might have a fight on his hands. That's in addition to Hungary, which took the deaths of several thousand Soviet troops to quell (and sparked several incidents of unrest in the Red Army).

Of course, even a little "border incident" just to show who's boss (not a full-blown invasion as I just suggested) leading to a few small battles could easily butterfly in Hungary, esp. since the Red Army guys weren't too happy (they were told they were going to Egypt to fight the British). Large-scale mutinies? Much larger Soviet casualties? Tactical nuclear weapns?

Either way, Tito is probably going to be even more pro-West than in OTL.

[Mr.Bluenote]

Originally Posted by aktarian

No. Both sides understood Europe is zero sum game. For one side to gain other has to loose. and that woun't be taken lightly. Both sides considered happenings in other camp as not-our-business.

I have to agree! However there seemed to be quite a lot of sympathy for the Hungarians at least, and later for the Czechs too I presume.
Some relative of mine was in the Royal Danish Army at the time of the Budapest uprising (Yeah, a real old timer, I know ), and they were put on full alert and dispersed around the countryside. He took the risk of war quite serious, and still does when he tells of his days in the Army. It apparently scared him plenty...

Regards and all!

- B.

[aktarian]

Matt

I doubt Khurschev would go for full invasion of Yugoslavia. He knew West would get involved pretty quick and there was no way Yugoslavia could be crushed quickly. The way I see it could be like Sino-Vietnamese war. Small fight to show who's the boss. But it could go badlly for both sides. Now if this happens I could see Yugoslavia acting as thorn in Soviet side with Hungarian refugees being sent over border and weapons smugled. Like Arabs/Palestininas/Israel but all sides carefull not to push other side too much.

Mr Bluenote

Yugoslav army was often on alerts. If it wasn't Italy it was Austria. If it wasn't Austria in was Hungary. If it wasn't Hungary it was Greece etc. Troops deployed in these alerts knew things were serious when they were issued dog tags, not live ammo.

[Mr.Bluenote]

Originally Posted by aktarian

Yugoslav army was often on alerts. If it wasn't Italy it was Austria. If it wasn't Austria in was Hungary. If it wasn't Hungary it was Greece etc. Troops deployed in these alerts knew things were serious when they were issued dog tags, not live ammo.

Ah yes, but I'm taking about the Danish Army. My point was that the invasion of Hungary was being viewed with alarm in at least Denmark, but also I suspect in most of NATO. I have to check, But I'm fairely certain that ammunition was brought forth, but not distributed among the troops.

Best regards!

Mr.B.

[Linkwerk]

My dad was growing up on a US army base in 1968 (pattonville, west germany) and he's told me that there was a real sense of fear, esp. among the west germans about the czech invasion. I'm pretty sure the base was put on alert. In any case, he was glad his family was moving at the time....

An interesting idea: what if the USSR pulled another internal warpac invasion on poland in the 80's?

[aktarian]

Originally Posted by Linkwerk

An interesting idea: what if the USSR pulled another internal warpac invasion on poland in the 80's?

This was conidered. Even his critics admit that Jaruzelski prevented that.