WI: 1940, French Government moves to Algieria

There was a popular option among opponents of the cease-fire (like Prime Minister Paul Reynaud, Minister Georges Mandel, General de Gaulle) to, in front of losing a battle of France, evacuate Government, remaining forces and, of course, not touched large French navy to North Africa (perhaps with a seat in Algier).

What if this option had prevailed and Nazis were forced to occupy the entire France, with legitimate, armed Government continuing a fight from colonies?
 

cw1865

Afrika Corps

Well, for starters, the Afrika Corps can't operate in North Africa without watching their backs. Is Hitler confident enough to launch Barbarossa and bring the Red Army into the fray?
 
It is a much better scenario for the allies. The French had substanial colonial forces in North Africa. If you add the ~90 000 men evacuated from Dunkirk and all forces they are able to evacuate from southern France, the French air force (still largely intact) and the French navy and above all the French gold reserve, credits and foreign holdings to the allied war effort, things will look up for Britain.

No need to attack Syria, Madacascar or strike the French navy and support against the Italians in Libya. I would guess Libya falls. What about Greece? Both French and British forces will probably be forced out by the Germans.

The Pacific is a wild card. If the Japanese do not have bases in French Indochina and have to fight the French garrison as well as a squadron of the French airforce and a French flottilla as part of the ABDA (ABDAF?) forces. The first phase of the Japanese offensives was stretching them very thin. Can they really get all they got without those bases and with slightly more forces facing them and another place to capture?
 

Hendryk

Banned
A really good TL has been made about this premise, France Fights On. The POD is that Paul Reynaud's mistress dies in a car accident on June 6, 1940, and doesn't sweet-talk him into yielding to Pétain's suggestion of an armistice.

Here's the link to the French version, but there's also an English one somewhere. The project seems to be stalled in November 1942, more's the pity.
 
A really good TL has been made about this premise, France Fights On. The POD is that Paul Reynaud's mistress dies in a car accident on June 6, 1940, and doesn't sweet-talk him into yielding to Pétain's suggestion of an armistice.

Here's the link to the French version, but there's also an English one somewhere. The project seems to be stalled in November 1942, more's the pity.

The English version link is available on the French version site. The project has slowed down, however, because the FFO TL is actually being published, a rare exemple of mainstream uchrony. The book covering 1940 is available at the moment.
 
There's also a revision of the France Fights ON (FFO) timeline called A Point of Departure (APOD) that arose from methodological differences between the various writers. On the one hand APOD is much more detailed on techonological, political and industrial issues, but it got rid of a cool story line involving a Franco-British presence in Greece (holding Crete and deploying on the mainland in early 42 before the US gets directly involved in Europe).

This is a very popular POD, the consequences of which still sparks debate. Almost every forum has its own interpetation these days and they're all completely different from each other. I say we ought to look into this ourselves and see what we come up with, maybe go one further and see what the post war world is like ITTL.
 
I say we ought to look into this ourselves and see what we come up with, maybe go one further and see what the post war world is like ITTL.

I'm in for this:D Bit short on time at the mo, will put some ideas down later, but just for the sake of discussion, once it became clear that France was loosing the Battle for France, Churchill did propose a Franco-British Union for the duration of the war.
 
I think the war in Africa ends earlier. I think that Churchil still has the clout to insist on the soft underbelly of Europe stradegy. The allies invade Itally in November 1942. There is no scandal from the Darlan deal that never happned. So they make a deal after Mussolini is overthrown. The Germans are able to occupy less of Italy. The invasion of France happens in 1943. The allies invade Germany by early 1944.. I will honor the AH tradition and reuse improtant date. I say the Germans surrender on June 6, 1944. The US. British, French forces go much further east than OTL. They take Poland and at least Prague.
The occupation zones are decided by an agreement so the Soviets may still have their occupation zone declare an independent government rather than join the Federal Republic of Germany. East Germany, unlike OTL, is surronded by free nations. As for the war in the Pacific, Japan wants French Indo China so they attack it and the British and US bases in September, 1941. So the War in the Pacific is three months ahead of schedule. By the fall of 1944, European vets come to the Pacific. There is much more intensive bombing of Japan. They may surrender without the atomic bomb.
The Soviets take over China. The communists, with Soviet help take over in 1946. The People's Republic of China is a Soviet satellite. There is no Great Leap forward or Cultural Revolution.
 

Hendryk

Banned
The Soviets take over China. The communists, with Soviet help take over in 1946. The People's Republic of China is a Soviet satellite. There is no Great Leap forward or Cultural Revolution.
Not sure about that last part. For one, I'm not sure the Communists would win the Chinese civil war in TTL; for another, if they do, China will go "heretical" no matter what. The USSR can't keep as a docile satellite a country with three times its own population.
 

Blair152

Banned
There was a popular option among opponents of the cease-fire (like Prime Minister Paul Reynaud, Minister Georges Mandel, General de Gaulle) to, in front of losing a battle of France, evacuate Government, remaining forces and, of course, not touched large French navy to North Africa (perhaps with a seat in Algiers).

What if this option had prevailed and Nazis were forced to occupy the entire France, with legitimate, armed Government continuing a fight from colonies?
That's what De Gaulle wanted the French government to do but nobody listened to him. Convincing the government of Marshal Petain to go to the
colonies would be great in a perfect world but as it was, it was totally ASB,
and that has to say something about the French in 1940.
 
That's what De Gaulle wanted the French government to do but nobody listened to him. Convincing the government of Marshal Petain to go to the
colonies would be great in a perfect world but as it was, it was totally ASB,
and that has to say something about the French in 1940.

Petain only came to power when the government decided to surrender.
 
Kids today should William L Shirer's The Collapse Of The Third Republic.


Actually, if I had my way, there would be a lot of reading assigned. The children would soon hate me.:D
 

Blair152

Banned
Kids today should William L Shirer's The Collapse Of The Third Republic.


Actually, if I had my way, there would be a lot of reading assigned. The children would soon hate me.:D
How about William L. Shirer's The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich? The 1973 British documentary The World At War and Victory At Sea, should also be required viewing. Both are very good shows.
 
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