I am currently planning a story idea set in a world based on that Finnish map where Germany wins WW2 through having a better leader and having Japan find the oil in Manchuria and staying neutral keeping America out of the war. So I ask what would British politics look like in this world my own idea is that it would shift to the left and end up being a fight between the center to center left Liberals and the left wing Labour party but I want to know your idea's.
British Politics in a Nazi Victory TL
- Thread starter area11
- Start date
Keenir
Banned
interesting.....because the matter of who is in charge of Britain, determines whether or not the UK helps Germany when the Reich collapses into being a third-world country by 1953 at the latest.
Eurofed
Banned
Nazi anti-wank. Although a victorious Nazi empire is going to have plenty of internal problems in the medium (Russia and perhaps the Arab world as well becoming a mega-Vietnam) and long (crappy education policies) term, what you mention is ASB in severity and time scale (especially the latter).
I agree with the above poster. Unfortunately, a surviving Third Reich is going to have just as much of an ability to stave off collaps as the USSR did in OTL, though I would say that the collapse of the former would have been swifter then that of the latter (due to the genocide thing and the never and the presence of Russia (I'm assuming that this is basically a stalemate universe, with everyone hating each other but having no alternative to never-ending war without peace).
Are you proposing the Nazis occupy Britain? How far does the war between Britain and Germany go?
On a side note, the borders are dependent in a Nazi victory scenario. Russia, if occupied (in part or in whole; though the latter is pretty ASB), would probably become Vietnam for the Nazis, with select information getting through so the thousands of people dying a year turns into "Reich nears victory!". I'm less sure about the Middle East, both in the Nazis occupying it and in not finding some sympathetic governments (Arab nationalist went gaga for someone not the Imperialist Brits or French who could destroy their colonial empires).
On a side note, the borders are dependent in a Nazi victory scenario. Russia, if occupied (in part or in whole; though the latter is pretty ASB), would probably become Vietnam for the Nazis, with select information getting through so the thousands of people dying a year turns into "Reich nears victory!". I'm less sure about the Middle East, both in the Nazis occupying it and in not finding some sympathetic governments (Arab nationalist went gaga for someone not the Imperialist Brits or French who could destroy their colonial empires).
I Know that mappo. in fact, i know the finnishs(because are several) who make that alternate history(class I to II with touch of III in Geekis khan clasification)
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263106
here the offical timeline of Karelian(a friend of Sampsa Rydman, the same one who make mappos for the lord of the ring) with several update by the same SR, in fact for make that map and timeline, Rydman have several problems with the anti-nazis policies in europe, in fact, he recive some threat against his life for that... a sad history for a talent like him
in fact, in the Original Alternate, the Nazis end in the 80's thanks to a gorvachev like figure.. but the facist EU survive in a more democratic one by the fear of the SU(who is like a little modern china in the 2000's but close to collapse too)
i want to see your timeline
Att
Nivek von Beldo
Eurofed
Banned
The map is ASB for one big reason. It assumes the division of Italy in the RSI Nazi puppet and Kingdom of Italy Allied puppet that went into being after September 1943 and the surrender of Italy. Nazi victory with such a late PoD is close enough to ASB, although not wholly impossible. e.g. it may happen if Hitler accepts the Soviet peace offer of February 1944 for a 1914 border, the D-Day is a bloody failure, and the political aftermath of it pushes Britain and America to accept a compromise peace. In the latter case, however, Eastern Europe would be all wrong and it is quite unlikely that the WAllies would keep southern Italy if they are giving up on the rest of Europe.
Eurofed, Ironically, the whole scenario than mention... Happen in the original Uchronia(wuth the exception than the peace was in the winter 1943 for a brest-litow 2.0 plus the another green areas), and the offensive in italy stalled, the D-DAY was a bloddy failure as will be without the soviets and the british partially thrown out the towel...
yes, is bad to see another divided italy(but that is a more realistic than the kaiserreich one, the syndicalist one will be the north, and the Papist the south, but that is another alternate history), but that happen, the gothic wall collapse in the 80's, the Kingdom reunify and the European facist venerin was reformed in a more democratic one(ironically, the join europe more early than OTL,that will make you happy eurofederalist)
please read the link for further information or PM Karelian
Att
Nivek von Beldo
P.S was for that map and history how is enter in the alternate history world, that and timeline 191
Keenir
Banned
Not really.
The Nazis very policy of killing their workforce, combined with how the majority of the upper echelons were heavily drugged (Hitler, Goering, etc), will not add up to a long lifespan.
Eurofed
Banned
Bah. Hitler shall not live much longer past 1945. Parkinson/Syphilis shall see to that. And his successor (most likely a ruthless pragmatic moderate member of the ruling elite, given how totalitarian regimes typically manage second-generation succession) shall scale down Lebensraum to enslavement after he's given a realistic resume of its economic and military costs, and start purging out the radical racist wackos. E.g. Himmler is in all likelihood going to end up like Beria.
If the Nazis were so inept that their victorious empire would face total collapse in less than a decade, they woluld have never managed to conquer Europe in the first place.
Well I'd Guess if we're talking a free Britain in the Face of Nazi Europe, the Tories take over for good, no NHS and the like, Winston Churchill stays at number 10 till the mid 50s can't say I know who takes over but in my view PM Enoch Powell is likely in the late 60s and 70s
Since the Nazis planned to starve, exterminate, enslave and generally kill off much of the population west of the Urals and since they had absolutely no qualms about using the most brutal methods to achieve those ends, I don't really see that the comparison with Vietnam is apt.
If the Nazis had ever found themselves in possession of everything west of the Urals, it wouldn't have been another Vietnam, it would have been a second Holocaust.
From the makers of the original Holocaust...
That was a joke. A really bad joke, but still a joke.
Hitler certainly isn't long for this world, but O think you may be sightly optimistic about replacement; they are, afterr all, ruling over a lot of people who really, really, really don't like them. While Hitler's whole Lebensraum thing probably wouldn't have happened, I still think that the impure Slavs of the Reich would be in for very Chinese interesting times.
It takes a genius to forcibly conquer Europe, but a God to keep it together.
Stephen
Banned
Its never enough for something you dislike to just be morally wrong is it. It has to be practically imposible aswell. Overwise it threatens all your preciouse beliefs.Guerilla warfare is never much of a problem for armies which are willing to use genocide. Guerillas rely on the local population to shelter and suply them, they cant do that if there all dead or in a concentration camp.
Wyragen-TXRG4P
Banned
They engaged in the conquest of western europe because France and England had declared war to them, not the other way around.
Late 70s? Timeline goes all the way to at least 1991 without thermonuclear war.
Last edited: