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  #181  
Old June 13th, 2010, 07:35 PM
anja anja is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimbrock View Post
Now, I dont really understand your first point. Do you mean that other countries would object to such a build up of power in the H-H union?
Yes.

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This. Everyone seems to have something to say about the warfare. Can somebody please come up and tell me exactly what is wrong apart from what I have justified in the change of strategy and tactics?
I can't put my finger on the point, it's just a feeling.
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  #182  
Old June 13th, 2010, 08:26 PM
Jimbrock Jimbrock is offline
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Yes.


I can't put my finger on the point, it's just a feeling.
Well, yes, France and Spain did fear the H-H Union, cue War of Polish Succession.
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  #183  
Old June 13th, 2010, 11:08 PM
DuQuense DuQuense is offline
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Yes, I know, I havent done much about extra-European fronts. I'm sorry. I promise to include more in other wars. But to be honest, not terribly much happened in America in this war.
Well to be Honest, not all that much happened OTL, Except for the Americans taking Louisbourg, and the French Burning a lot of the Vermont/New York Frontier.
Louisbourg was returned in the '48 Treaty [Americans were still upset in 1775] and the Burning was only a temporary push back.

Just thought you could mention a few [extra-European] points when you write the Treaty Posts.
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  #184  
Old June 14th, 2010, 07:19 AM
mailinutile2 mailinutile2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimbrock View Post
This. Everyone seems to have something to say about the warfare. Can somebody please come up and tell me exactly what is wrong apart from what I have justified in the change of strategy and tactics?
Dear Author,
I will try to define the main points
1) Strategical encirclement (maneuvre su le derriere) was not feasible for Fritz army: only tactical one (oblique order) was.
2) Fritz army was not a "nation in arms" in the 1800-sense.
This mean that soldiers lacked enthusism and were prone to desert, especially when supplies were scarce.
thus, long wagons of carriages were a must-be: Fritz could not expect to feed on the land (this is also one of the reason for point 1).
For the same reason, no night marches: too easy to desert.
Thus, slow armies.
3)the "patriotic, german" enthusiasm againts the french is a bit hard to swallow. The idea of nation was simply not developed enough.
4) the idea of the war was different. "Total" war was not practiced against major powers (small powers a la Saxony is another thing).
The key idea here is that everyone played according to the rules of "limited war"
Basically, the borders are more or less established and the idea is you can grab a province here and a region there, but you do not go for the enemy's capital.
I know, OTL Fritz did that against Saxony, and that was the scandal of Europe, but the point is precisely that he did so only once, against a little nation, and spent a the rest of his days trying to justify its actions (there are funny memoranda sent to european courts from berlin on the subject).
5) Frankly, young Fritz was not so much competent in military things: his first 2 battles were won by his generals rathet that by him.
During the very first battle he even run away, and his army fought (and won) without him.
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  #185  
Old June 14th, 2010, 03:21 PM
Jimbrock Jimbrock is offline
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Originally Posted by DuQuense View Post
Well to be Honest, not all that much happened OTL, Except for the Americans taking Louisbourg, and the French Burning a lot of the Vermont/New York Frontier.
Louisbourg was returned in the '48 Treaty [Americans were still upset in 1775] and the Burning was only a temporary push back.

Just thought you could mention a few [extra-European] points when you write the Treaty Posts.
Exactly, which is why not much happens TTL either. I have written some 'overview' chapters after the peace treaties, I will try to include one focusing on the Americas too.


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Originally Posted by mailinutile2 View Post
Dear Author,
I will try to define the main points
1) Strategical encirclement (maneuvre su le derriere) was not feasible for Fritz army: only tactical one (oblique order) was.
2) Fritz army was not a "nation in arms" in the 1800-sense.
This mean that soldiers lacked enthusism and were prone to desert, especially when supplies were scarce.
thus, long wagons of carriages were a must-be: Fritz could not expect to feed on the land (this is also one of the reason for point 1).
For the same reason, no night marches: too easy to desert.
Thus, slow armies.
3)the "patriotic, german" enthusiasm againts the french is a bit hard to swallow. The idea of nation was simply not developed enough.
4) the idea of the war was different. "Total" war was not practiced against major powers (small powers a la Saxony is another thing).
The key idea here is that everyone played according to the rules of "limited war"
Basically, the borders are more or less established and the idea is you can grab a province here and a region there, but you do not go for the enemy's capital.
I know, OTL Fritz did that against Saxony, and that was the scandal of Europe, but the point is precisely that he did so only once, against a little nation, and spent a the rest of his days trying to justify its actions (there are funny memoranda sent to european courts from berlin on the subject).
5) Frankly, young Fritz was not so much competent in military things: his first 2 battles were won by his generals rathet that by him.
During the very first battle he even run away, and his army fought (and won) without him.
1. Excuse my ignorance. Care to explain this?
2. Not a 'nation in arms', no, but Fredericks (and his fathers before him) reforms definately meant that this professional army would hardly experience desertion. As for supply lines, thats true. And on friendly territory, I doubt there would be many problems. Apart from the last feverish dash to Paris, supplies are accomodated for and I cant see many problems with it. In Turkey, the army did not move very fast either.
3. No, this is not the Napoleonic Wars, but that doesnt stop Fritz ranting to himself about it.
4. Basically after Berewijk and the Holland Campaign it was clear that France was losing, but the attack on Paris was more of an endgame and/or symbolic move.
5. Fritz was a very good tactitan, too he had teething difficulties but those could have sorted themselves out in the War of Polish Succession. You might recall thar Frits commanded the Breslau Western armies in that war, and proved himself to his father and to the world. This war is not his first military experience.

Again, thank you for the comments. I see some of the faults I have with 18th C warfare, but I just cand understand the huge backlash.
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  #186  
Old June 14th, 2010, 08:45 PM
Jimbrock Jimbrock is offline
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Part 12. The War shows signs of abating, and I know its a bit of a short part. Im kinda reconsidering my position, and since im like 7 parts ahead, I might post a bit more frequently after all. Im not really sure. Anyway, here it is.

---


Despite all the grand sounding talk and brave speeches, Frederick’s first move the next day was actually a retreat. With a sizable force being left in the town, the rest of the army retreated behind into the valleys and hills nearby, waiting for the imminent Spanish attack. The Spanish, thinking that most of the allies were still attacking Milan, quickly advanced up to the town, and seeing that it was quite well defended, began scouting the area, spreading out. That was when the trap sprung and Frederick quickly attacked, ploughing through the Spanish who were far too spread out around the hilly area, and then the troops in the town itself attacked to mop up the stragglers. The result of the decisive Battle of San Benedetto was a strategic allied victory, with huge Spanish losses. But the Spanish force was not destroyed, only dispersed and defeated.

The easy victory was a big morale-raiser for the army, but Frederick did not stay true to his wild promises of ‘a final battle’. He led the troops on another march south, heading for Florence itself. The Spanish had not had any time to properly garrison Tuscany, and rather than attempt hold the city and lose huge amounts of men, all the Spanish troops retreated, to regroup at the town of Siena. Frederick arrived in Florence, disappointingly empty of enemy soldiers. Here, together with the other commanders of the respective armies, he had to allow the army to rest a bit. Since the beginning of the Italian campaign, the army had not had much rest, so in Florence some time off was allowed. In the meantime, Frederick, Khevenhuller and Saxe-Hildburghausen went through the task of reorganising all their armies into one force. Effectively, they had been commanded as one large army since they met near Milan, but now their organisational structures were merged. After a few days of rest, the army was rallied up again and it took some more motivational speeches to get it fired up again.

Then, when all necessary preparations were ready, the army marched south yet again, this time setting sights on Siena. Far from the disappointment of Florence, in Siena the Spanish had regrouped and dug in, and it would be very difficult to dislodge them from the city. Frederick marched his troops east of the city, to the high ground that partly surrounded Siena. But the Spanish were not stupid, and had already moved onto much of this high ground, and Frederick had trouble muscling his way into a good tactical position. But there was no other choice, and with many losses Frederick succeeded in capturing the high territory to the south of Siena. From there, the east was attacked, and in a slightly less bloody but still pyrhic victory, the allies came in control of a large proportion of the surrounding land. The Spanish realised they were being slowly boxed in, so a large force left the city through the west, and tried to assault the allied positions in the north. This was a terrible mistake, as the bulk of the allied forces were in the south and east, and they took this opportunity for an attack on Siena.

The attack would go down as one of Frederick’s gross miscalculations. There were huge losses, but seeing the position Frederick simply could not retreat, lose the tactical position and allow the Spanish to boot them out of the general Siena area completely. Instead, the great commander himself rode into battle, as the fighting got extremely thick and bloody. There was a moment when Frederick himself got hit off his horse, but aided by his entourage he regained his mount and led his troops onward. The Spanish to the north, realising what had happened, quickly marched back to the city, falling into the range of the allies on the highlands and being largely picked off quickly. Eventually, they arrived only to get bogged down in the intense fighting, while in the meantime the allies had closed in and now completey surrounded the city. Eventually, it became clear that Frederick was winning. Rather than get trapped and destroyed in the city centre, the Spanish decided to attempt a break out, and they threw their entire weight at a valley in the south east. They managed to get through, and marched away as fast as possible, being fired upon from both sides by the allies. After huge amounts of bloodshed, the Battle of Siena was won, by the ever victorious Frederick.

The losses of Siena were great, but the Spanish had yet again escaped, and Frederick was determined not to let them regroup again. In a ruthless manner, he turned his forces south again, set on extracting revenge. It was not long before the two armies caught up, and this time the allies’ superior drilling and training shone through, compared with the disorganised and demoralised Spanish. The Battle of Montaciano was a foregone conclusion, and when it became apparent the the allies were winning, Frederick allowed his forces to unleash its full fury upon the enemies and to show no mercy. The result was a huge victory for the allies, who felt that revenge had been extracted. This time, Frederick allowed his forces to regroup and rest, as well as recouperate their energy from the battles and advances just endured by the army. He knew the Spanish could now pose no feasible threat, as all the remaining forces, as well as reinforcements from Naples, had retreated to Grossetto.

When he felt the army was back to relative strength, he set off again towards this southern city. When the army arrived at Grossetto, the Spanish were defeated, depleted, and in no mood for another fight. They immediately called for an armistice. Frederick sent the Spanish messenger to blazes, with the retort “Surrender your arms, abandon your forts, leave this land for good and you may find an armistice! Otherwise, be gone!” Instead, he proceeded to advance on the city itself, and rather than get totally obliterated the crushed Spanish surrendered, managing to agree on a truce, on the condition that Milan also would surrender to the allies. The remaining Spanish troops fled through the Papal States to Naples.

And with the truce of Grossetto, Frederick’s great Campaign came to an end. By this time, the Russians had long taken all of Finland and were clearly on the way to victory in Sweden. In the meantime, in America, the British had captured most of Acadia and a good portion of the Ohio country, while the border in Florida remained stable after an initial Spanish invasion had failed to take Charleston. In India, on the other hand, the French had actually secured victory, capturing the important British settlement of Madras, but offering to release it for a cash ransom from the British East India Company. But, overall, the War of the Austrian Succession had eventually turned out to be a very important victory for the Allies, and most importantly an enormous personal and military feat by Frederick, whose Great Campaigns would forever go down in history.

At Grossetto, Frederick called for a great peace conference to resolve the outcome of the war. After discussing with his fellow commanders and strategists, he settled on the Free City of Frankfurt as a suitable, neutral location for a peace discussion. He marshalled his troops again, this time finally heading home. Needless to say, this was very popular move and the army marched towards Milan with a spring in its collective step. But the rest of Europe could take a very deep breath, and let it out in relief. Peace had appeared on the horizon.
---
Map of the campaign out soon.
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  #187  
Old June 15th, 2010, 06:39 AM
mailinutile2 mailinutile2 is offline
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2. Not a 'nation in arms', no, but Fredericks (and his fathers before him) reforms definately meant that this professional army would hardly experience desertion.
I am sorry but this is rather the opposite of truth.
What you say applies only to officers (and not even to all them, since a good share were foreign mercenaries)
Most of the ranks were conscripted, and a significant part of them were press-ganged in the army.
roughly half of the people were not prussians, too, and there is contemporary literature about swiss, saxons, hannoverians, etc press-ganged in the prussian army.
The typical example is Der arme Mann im Tockenburg by Ulrich Bräker.
I also remember there was quite a scandal because prussian recruit officers tried to press-gang in the army a traveller (and managed to do so for a few weeks) which turned out to be an austrian ambassdador in incognito.
Regarding desertion, it was quite common: after Fritz first invasion of Bohemia (between Mollwitz and Chotusitz), half of his army melt away without a single battle because the hostile population caused supply troubles

Last edited by mailinutile2; June 15th, 2010 at 07:20 AM..
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  #188  
Old June 15th, 2010, 07:11 AM
mailinutile2 mailinutile2 is offline
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1) Strategical encirclement (maneuvre su le derriere) was not feasible for Fritz army: only tactical one (oblique order) was.
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Originally Posted by Jimbrock View Post
1. Excuse my ignorance. Care to explain this?
Strategical encirclement (manoeuvre sur le derriere) is a strategical movement consisting in penetrating enemy territory not in direction of the opposite army but rather in a parallel direction, with the aim of putting your army between the enemy's one and its supply centers.
The consequence is that often the enemy goes back to re-establish its supply chain, and you are conquering enemy territory without battles.
The typical example is the first italian napoleonic campaign, with bonaparte advancing on one bank of the po and the austrian army retreating on the other not to be cut away (sometimes the enemy accept battle in order to stop such a retreat, such as the austrian at Padova, but they generally have to do so on a terrain not of their choice).
The problem in doing it is that, while doing so, your own army is temporarly supply-cut itself.
Thus , in order to do so you need an army which is both fast and able to survive without a supply chain in enemy territory.
Pre-Napoleonic European armies (Fritz's included) were not able to do so.
(Thus, in my opinion, the prussian army would not be able to pass aside to the french army and placing between that and Paris)

On the other hand oblique order is a tactical manoeuver consisting in deceiving the enemy on your position, so that you can attack it on a flank.
This was devastating in 1700 armies, since they fought in line and it was quite hard to change their orientation on the battlefileld.
Fritz become very good in doing that, expecially after Leuthen.

Last edited by mailinutile2; June 15th, 2010 at 08:48 AM..
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  #189  
Old June 15th, 2010, 01:57 PM
Max Sinister Max Sinister is offline
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This is an interesting premise and a nice TL. Although I'm somewhat split... as said, the idea is good, though I fear there'd be way too many obstacles in Real Life to become true:

- Maria Theresia actually loved her OTL husband Stephan. (Their sixteen kids prove it.) Although Frederick said about her "I warred with her but I was never her enemy.", I wouldn't bet that she liked him. (Although the Silesia bit definitely influenced her opinion.)
- Frederick was childless, probably never had sex with his wife and was possibly gay. Maria OTOH... how should a compromise look like?! You mentioned the possibility of a bastard son, but given her Catholicism...
- Frederick was very enlightened, Voltaire was his best friend. Maria was very Catholic, sometimes even bigoted. That's why I also can't see her tolerate a solution like this: Habsburg had higher standards, so to speak, than other monarchies.

But don't get me wrong: This TL is too good, and AFAIK it was never tried before. So please, go on!

One thing for the future: IOTL, the ruler of Bavaria and the Palatinate suggested to Joseph of Austria to exchange Bavaria for Belgium. Which would've left Austria absolutely supreme in southern Germany. Frederick founded an alliance and threatened with war to prevent this. (For this reason, the Bavarians actually had portraits of Frederick hanging in their offices for he had saved Bavaria! Yep, for a long time the Bavarians hated the Austrians more than the Prussians. After 1866, this obviously changed.) But ITTL, this could work. And would united the eastern half of Germany under one crown.
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  #190  
Old June 15th, 2010, 06:09 PM
Jimbrock Jimbrock is offline
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Originally Posted by mailinutile2 View Post
I am sorry but this is rather the opposite of truth.
What you say applies only to officers (and not even to all them, since a good share were foreign mercenaries)
Most of the ranks were conscripted, and a significant part of them were press-ganged in the army.
roughly half of the people were not prussians, too, and there is contemporary literature about swiss, saxons, hannoverians, etc press-ganged in the prussian army.
The typical example is Der arme Mann im Tockenburg by Ulrich Bräker.
I also remember there was quite a scandal because prussian recruit officers tried to press-gang in the army a traveller (and managed to do so for a few weeks) which turned out to be an austrian ambassdador in incognito.
Regarding desertion, it was quite common: after Fritz first invasion of Bohemia (between Mollwitz and Chotusitz), half of his army melt away without a single battle because the hostile population caused supply troubles
Im pretty sure that the reforms focused on a largely Prussian army, but I guess I might have exxagerated the extent of their professionalism. Sorry bout that.

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Originally Posted by mailinutile2 View Post
Strategical encirclement (manoeuvre sur le derriere) is a strategical movement consisting in penetrating enemy territory not in direction of the opposite army but rather in a parallel direction, with the aim of putting your army between the enemy's one and its supply centers.
The consequence is that often the enemy goes back to re-establish its supply chain, and you are conquering enemy territory without battles.
The typical example is the first italian napoleonic campaign, with bonaparte advancing on one bank of the po and the austrian army retreating on the other not to be cut away (sometimes the enemy accept battle in order to stop such a retreat, such as the austrian at Padova, but they generally have to do so on a terrain not of their choice).
The problem in doing it is that, while doing so, your own army is temporarly supply-cut itself.
Thus , in order to do so you need an army which is both fast and able to survive without a supply chain in enemy territory.
Pre-Napoleonic European armies (Fritz's included) were not able to do so.
(Thus, in my opinion, the prussian army would not be able to pass aside to the french army and placing between that and Paris)

On the other hand oblique order is a tactical manoeuver consisting in deceiving the enemy on your position, so that you can attack it on a flank.
This was devastating in 1700 armies, since they fought in line and it was quite hard to change their orientation on the battlefileld.
Fritz become very good in doing that, expecially after Leuthen.
Well, the now controversial attack on Paris was first one of these oblique orders, and towards the end a straight mad march, and the end was a pretty bad strategic move, but Fritz isnt perfect. We cant have our favourite guy making all the best moves all the time, that is the very quality I detest in TLs.

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Originally Posted by Max Sinister View Post
This is an interesting premise and a nice TL. Although I'm somewhat split... as said, the idea is good, though I fear there'd be way too many obstacles in Real Life to become true:

- Maria Theresia actually loved her OTL husband Stephan. (Their sixteen kids prove it.) Although Frederick said about her "I warred with her but I was never her enemy.", I wouldn't bet that she liked him. (Although the Silesia bit definitely influenced her opinion.)
- Frederick was childless, probably never had sex with his wife and was possibly gay. Maria OTOH... how should a compromise look like?! You mentioned the possibility of a bastard son, but given her Catholicism...
- Frederick was very enlightened, Voltaire was his best friend. Maria was very Catholic, sometimes even bigoted. That's why I also can't see her tolerate a solution like this: Habsburg had higher standards, so to speak, than other monarchies.

But don't get me wrong: This TL is too good, and AFAIK it was never tried before. So please, go on!.
Um, Stephan is dead. Thats the preliminary PoD.
Frederick being gay was just a rumour, and he hated his wife because he was forced to marry her by his draconian father. He actually was attracted to MT, and even offered to give up his right to the throne to marry her. And artistic liscence, they do love each other sincerely!
She was indeed bigoted, there will be arguments. But they will rub off on eachother two.

Thanks for the good wishes.

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One thing for the future: IOTL, the ruler of Bavaria and the Palatinate suggested to Joseph of Austria to exchange Bavaria for Belgium. Which would've left Austria absolutely supreme in southern Germany. Frederick founded an alliance and threatened with war to prevent this. (For this reason, the Bavarians actually had portraits of Frederick hanging in their offices for he had saved Bavaria! Yep, for a long time the Bavarians hated the Austrians more than the Prussians. After 1866, this obviously changed.) But ITTL, this could work. And would united the eastern half of Germany under one crown.
Shh!
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Last edited by Max Sinister; June 29th, 2010 at 01:06 PM.. Reason: fixed quote
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  #191  
Old June 15th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Jimbrock Jimbrock is offline
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Oh, I forgot this. Sorry.

I know, it overlaps in Turkey, but I put a little edge on it to distinguish the different paths. I marked Berlin, where the campaign started, Vienna, where Fritz stopped for winter 1941, and Grossetto, where it finished. Auxerre is not marked, because the army didnt spend so much time there. Without further ado, the route taken by Frederick on his Great Campaign!
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  #192  
Old June 16th, 2010, 08:34 AM
Monty Burns Monty Burns is offline
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Im pretty sure that the reforms focused on a largely Prussian army, but I guess I might have exxagerated the extent of their professionalism.
The reforms predominantly made it possible that Prussia was able to field a large army. Nevertheless, they still pressed foreigners in. And desertion was indeed so large a problem that marching orders typically ensured that cavalry rode alongside infantry lines to chase deserters and that night marches were generally impossible. That's one of the main factors for the sucesses of French revolutionary troops: they could march at night. An Napoleon could order some men to hide in the forests - if Fritz did that, most of the men in hiding would be gone pretty soon.

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Well, the now controversial attack on Paris was first one of these oblique orders, and towards the end a straight mad march, and the end was a pretty bad strategic move, but Fritz isnt perfect. We cant have our favourite guy making all the best moves all the time, that is the very quality I detest in TLs.
I don'T want Fritz to make all the perfect choices - but I ant him to make plausible choices. He leads a massive international army. As soon as he orders such a "straight mad march", his allies won't go with him. His generals would object. It's just to implausible.

Furthermore: in the original piece it does not sound like a mad march, but like a genial strategic decision of Fritz to go for Paris first. It seems like you're trying to reinterpret your own work, which simply is not necessary: Fritz could have attacked the French army in the North on its flank, he'd probably would have won, and then he could have marched to Paris with secure supply lines - all very plausible within 18th century military thinking.
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  #193  
Old June 16th, 2010, 08:49 AM
mailinutile2 mailinutile2 is offline
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Dear author,
please do not be dismayed by our criticisms: we are enjoying your timeline.
All our comments are offered in a constructive criticism spirit.
Go on.

And if you'll introduce a bit of 1700 scandal, you'll make me a very happy panda
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  #194  
Old June 16th, 2010, 09:01 AM
Monty Burns Monty Burns is offline
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I just noted that in your first post, you mentioned that the Ostende Company is not dissolved yet. I suppose this has not changed so far? This should be important since right now the Union of Prussia and Hapsburg should get considerably stronger, hence on one side they should be less willing to give up trade but on the other side the naval powers Britain and the Netherlands should be more interested in the end of the Company.

I hope you'll cover this in the peace conference.
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  #195  
Old June 16th, 2010, 12:08 PM
Max Sinister Max Sinister is offline
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Sorry I missed the bit about Stephan.

Another idea for the future: When Frederick and Maria's son steps on the throne (or grandson? Fritz wasn't called "Old Fritz" for nothing), if he was raised with the ideas of enlightenment and rationalism, he might decide to thoroughly reform the HRE - i.e. putting away with the clerical territories and free cities and such. As the Reichsdeputationshauptschluss did IOTL (as Napoleon wanted) in 1803.
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  #196  
Old June 16th, 2010, 12:13 PM
mailinutile2 mailinutile2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Max Sinister View Post
if he was raised with the ideas of enlightenment and rationalism, he might decide to thoroughly reform the HRE - i.e. putting away with the clerical territories
I see here a potential clash between mummy's and daddy's views on the line of the offspring education
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  #197  
Old June 16th, 2010, 12:21 PM
Max Sinister Max Sinister is offline
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Yeah, but when mummy's dead, she can't exactly prevent this...

So or so: This would give Prussia-Austria quite some lands in Westphalia, Salzburg and Franconia. Cologne, Trier and Liege might fall to the Wittelsbachs, if the Bavaria-Belgium exchange works, which would give them a nice country along the Rhine and Maas. Of course, this would make Prussia-Austria-Bavaria completely supreme in Germany, and everyone else could just put up token resistance.

Oh, and would you mind putting in a few more dates? Just one per post? I'm losing track sometimes.

And don't forget about the potatos!
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Last edited by Max Sinister; June 16th, 2010 at 12:31 PM..
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  #198  
Old June 16th, 2010, 12:27 PM
mailinutile2 mailinutile2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Max Sinister View Post
Yeah, but when mummy's dead, she can't exactly prevent this...

So or so: This would give Prussia-Austria quite some lands in Westphalia, Salzburg and Franconia. Cologne, Trier and Liege might fall to the Wittelsbachs, if the Bavaria-Belgium exchange works, which would give them a nice country along the Rhine and Maas. Of course, this would make Prussia-Austria-Bavaria completely supreme in Germany, and everyone else could just put up token resistance.
Bavaria is traditionally french-aligned, I'd dare say that the reconciliation with austria OTL was due to french-austrian alliance against fritz.
with france being hostile to them, I don't see how it could so blatatly switch alliance, short of a new dynasty imposed in point of bayonet (a bit napoleonish)
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  #199  
Old June 16th, 2010, 12:31 PM
mailinutile2 mailinutile2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimbrock View Post
Frederick being gay was just a rumour
And artistic licence, they do love each other sincerely!
Cough * Von Keith * Cough
Cough * Katte * Cough
Cough * San Souci, where it was rumored the only females aroung were Fritz she-dogs * Cough
OTL he was at least bisexual (and quite mysogine).

No reason not to accept the artistic licence, though
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  #200  
Old June 16th, 2010, 06:27 PM
Jimbrock Jimbrock is offline
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Originally Posted by mailinutile2 View Post
Dear author,
please do not be dismayed by our criticisms: we are enjoying your timeline.
All our comments are offered in a constructive criticism spirit.
Go on.

And if you'll introduce a bit of 1700 scandal, you'll make me a very happy panda
Of course, I know that I need to better my style of warfare writing. As for scandals, I was thinking about doing one of those...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty Burns View Post
I just noted that in your first post, you mentioned that the Ostende Company is not dissolved yet. I suppose this has not changed so far? This should be important since right now the Union of Prussia and Hapsburg should get considerably stronger, hence on one side they should be less willing to give up trade but on the other side the naval powers Britain and the Netherlands should be more interested in the end of the Company.

I hope you'll cover this in the peace conference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sinister View Post
Sorry I missed the bit about Stephan.

Another idea for the future: When Frederick and Maria's son steps on the throne (or grandson? Fritz wasn't called "Old Fritz" for nothing), if he was raised with the ideas of enlightenment and rationalism, he might decide to thoroughly reform the HRE - i.e. putting away with the clerical territories and free cities and such. As the Reichsdeputationshauptschluss did IOTL (as Napoleon wanted) in 1803.
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Originally Posted by mailinutile2 View Post
I see here a potential clash between mummy's and daddy's views on the line of the offspring education
No! Stop! Youve predicted like 3 episodes in one conversation!
Seriously, you can rest assured that your concerns are adressed. There are posts on the H-H family, The Ostend Company, and HRE reform all slotted after the peace treaty. Are you all psychic or something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mailinutile2 View Post
Cough * Von Keith * Cough
Cough * Katte * Cough
Cough * San Souci, where it was rumored the only females aroung were Fritz she-dogs * Cough
OTL he was at least bisexual (and quite mysogine).

No reason not to accept the artistic licence, though
Google brings up a blank, unless youre referring to some guy on Facebook.
Rumours! Rumours!
There were also rumours that Frits had a harem hidden somewhere around there. And Sansouci doesnt exist TTL.

And seeing as there are no facts, my artistic lisence says that he is straight. Or bisexual, and hides his homosexual parts adequately. Apart from the issue of offspring, he can be whatever he likes, it doesnt concern me.
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Sinister European types write 1.000,00 when they really mean 1,000.00. This can only lead to dogs and cats living together.
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