Challenge/WI : Motor racing at the Olympics?

One of the more famous events of the Ancient Olympic games was the chariot racing. Current IOC rules (no idea how long they have been in force for) ban sports that require mechanical propulsion, meaning it is unlikely to return in the near future. In the past there was motorized sports in the modern games, with powerboating in London 1908, and a demonstration motor racing event at the Worlds Fair that coincided with the 1900 Paris games.

However, under what circumstances could motor racing be added to the Olympic games (possibly Berlin 1936)? And what effects would it have in motor racing? - Would we see constructors from more countries due to the possibility of getting in to the games?

This idea was recycled from a potential TL.

Though not a motorized sport, perhaps harness racing could be introduced as a modern day chariot race equivalent.

I suppose so, although I suppose motor racing is in other ways.

One thought about 1936 would be that it would presumably be an event for Grand Prix cars. Surely that would not be able to continue for a long time - perhaps seeing it become a Formula Two event, possibly leading to something resembling the old Formula Two bubbling along?

Also, what events would it be - drivers, or would their be a teams event too? Initially would it be like the old chariot racing where the constructor officially won?

So many sports, not enough time. Let me see: How about ice boat racing,
sled dog racing, (MUSH! MUSH! MUSH, YOU HUSKIES!? My favorite. ),
or another non-motor sport, sailplane racing, maybe? Somehow, I can't
see the Grand Prix of Monaco, or the 24 Hours at Le Mans, in the Olympics anytime soon. Roller skating, or roller skiing, maybe?

Nuvolari won at the Nurburgring in the mid 30s in an Alfa Romeo, against the ultra powerful Mercedes and Auto Unions and the German didn't have an Italian national anthem on hand. So in the period GP racing did have nationalist undertones.

Riain said:

Nuvolari won at the Nurburgring in the mid 30s in an Alfa Romeo, against the ultra powerful Mercedes and Auto Unions and the German didn't have an Italian national anthem on hand. So in the period GP racing did have nationalist undertones.

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I remember hearing that. About a year or two later, he was killed in an accident while racing for Auto Union, (now Audi), and his body was returned to Italy.

^ That was only because the Germans were so dominant at the time that the Italians had little hope of victories......except they ripped off a surprise every now and then.

Part of the problem with this is the number of different car types and race types. There wasn't much difference in 1900, but by WWII you'd have different formulas, sports car racing and specialized forms like the dirt tracks of Australia and America. Touring cars and Rally racing further complicate things post-war. You'd have to have a bunch of venues for this to cover everything, and then you have the fact that there would be countries that would regularly win in such events by spending more money and building better cars, thus forcing it into being a money contest not a contest of human skills and achievement. I can only see this if it was all identical cars. Perhaps the host city of the games lines up the vehicles?

Following the WI, if it was established in the 1936 Games (Hitler would like this - his Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union teams would dominate proceedings) and the first category was Formula 1, you'd have to get the best racetracks. For most of the Olympics host cities, however, this isn't hard. Berlin (1936) would host the events at the Nurburgring, in all likelihood. The London (1948) games would probably have the events at the Crystal Palace circuit in London, which hosted racing until 1972 IOTL, and so on:

1952 (Helsinki): probably at Helsinki's own racing circuit, or at the Ahvenisto Circuit (IOTL not built until 1966)
1956 (Melbourne): The Phillip Island racing circuit opened in 1956, so this one would be a natural.
1960 (Rome): The Vallelunga Circuit is closest to Rome, but Monza would have more a viceral and emotional impact, plus you could also use it for oval races, too.
1964 (Tokyo): Fuji Speedway would host the racing events, which would be spectacular - Fuji's 1960s layout was awesomely fast, and the scenery at the track is incredible.
1968 (Mexico City): The Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez would probably host this one, and its a good circuit, though its got nothing on Fuji and the altitude would slow the cars down.
1972 (Munich): Undoubtedly back to the Nurburgring for this one, which would make for an excellent test for the drivers - the Nurburgring is a very, very tough circuit. Perhaps for this one they build the new Nurburgring a decade earlier than OTL in order to not get criticisms about the track's safety.
1976 (Montreal): This one would be between Circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal or Circuit Mont-Tremblant north of the city. Villeneuve is closer, Tremblant is the better track and has the better scenery.
1980 (Moscow): This one is a toughie. Moscow would have to build a racing track here or make one out of the city streets, though a proposal involving Red Square was proposed for Formula One for 1983, but it did not come to pass due to bureaucratic crap. Might happen here.....
1984 (Los Angeles): Laguna Seca Raceway would probably get the honors here, though Willow Springs and Long Beach could host, they are inferior tracks to Laguna Seca.
1988 (Seoul): You'd need a track built for this one, too. But knowing how big the Koreans did the 1988 Games, I suspect that's not particularly an issue. The terrain around Seoul could produce a helluva circuit, too.
1992 (Barcelona): Montjuich Park or the Circuit de Catalunya would have no issue hosting, but which one would be a debate. Catalunya is the better facilities-wise.
1996 (Atlanta): Road Atlanta would get its Panoz-era facelift and host events. It's a fast track, and Turn 13 would scare a few guys in all likelihood.....
2000 (Sydney): Eastern Creek circuit would probably get a makeover here, though it would be sooooo right if the Olympic Races got held at Bathurst......
2004 (Athens): Circuit needed here, too. But again, lots of places where a big-time circuit would look really good.
2008 (Beijing): The Goldenport Circuit is there, but it sucks. I can see the Shanghai F1 circuit hosting these, and that would be a show, though more for the track's facilities, because the layout isn't anything to write home about.
2012 (London): Crystal Palace is long gone, but Brands Hatch is in Kent which isn't far away, so......
2016 (Rio de Janiero): Rio's Jacarapagua Circuit was partially torn up for the Pan Am Games, but a circuit proposal was made to run international events on the small circuit and around the stadium facilities, which would work nicely.

And at least for Formula 1, I can see these being the medal winners......

1936: Tazio Nuvolari (Italy), Bernd Rosemeyer (Germany), Hans Stuck (Germany)
1948: Juan Manuel Fangio (Argentina), Stirling Moss (UK), Alberto Ascari (Italy)
1952: Stirling Moss (UK), Juan Manuel Fangio (Argentina), Alberto Ascari (Italy)
1956: Juan Manuel Fangio (Argentina), Mike Hawthorn (UK), Jean Behra (France)
1960: Bruce McLaren (New Zealand), Jack Brabham (Australia), Phill Hill (USA)
1964: Jim Clark (UK), Jack Brabham (Australia), Graham Hill (UK)
1968: Jackie Stewart (UK), Denny Hulme (New Zealand), Jacky Ickx (Belgium)
1972: Jackie Stewart (UK), Emerson Fittipaldi (Brazil), Francois Cevert (France)
1976: Mario Andretti (USA), Niki Lauda (Austria), Clay Regazzoni (Switzerland)
1980: Gilles Villeneuve (Canada), Nelson Piquet (Brazil), Alan Jones (Australia)
1984: Alain Prost (France), Niki Lauda (Austria), Stefan Bellof (Germany)
1988: Ayrton Senna (Brazil), Alain Prost (France), Michele Alboreto (Italy)
1992: Ayrton Senna (Brazil), Michael Schumacher (Germany), Nigel Mansell (UK)
1996: Michael Schumacher (Germany), Jacques Villeneuve (Canada), Mika Hakkinen (Finland)
2000: Mika Hakkinen (Finland), Michael Schumacher (Germany), Jacques Villeneuve (Canada)
2004: Michael Schumacher (Germany), Juan Pablo Montoya (Colombia), Fernando Alonso (Spain)
2008: Lewis Hamilton (UK), Kimi Raikkonen (Finland), Mark Webber (Australia)

The closest I know to chariot racing in the modern context is chuck wagon racing.

The 1956 Melbourne GP was held at Albert Park wjhere it is now held, which would be right in the middle of the action during the Olympics.

TheMann said:

Part of the problem with this is the number of different car types and race types. There wasn't much difference in 1900, but by WWII you'd have different formulas, sports car racing and specialized forms like the dirt tracks of Australia and America. Touring cars and Rally racing further complicate things post-war.

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If it started in the 30s, which would probably have been the most likely time, due to that bloke from Braunau am Inn liking motor racing, it would probably have been for Grand Prix cars (the term Formula One only came in in 1948); while grids where quite thin in GP cars they were also quite thin in voiturettes (the F2 of the day, although they actually formed the basis of post-war Formula One) and most other forms of racing weren't developed enough. Sports car racing was dominated by the French, and the Germans didn't try in that area.

You'd have to have a bunch of venues for this to cover everything, and then you have the fact that there would be countries that would regularly win in such events by spending more money and building better cars, thus forcing it into being a money contest not a contest of human skills and achievement. I can only see this if it was all identical cars. Perhaps the host city of the games lines up the vehicles?

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Host cities providing a fleet of cars sounds sensible initially, but it would be difficult for reasons for getting drivers that drive (say) Loti in Alfas for 1960. Perhaps this would trigger racing teams to be a bit more national, and the Olympics being a carrot for some countries to get in. Perhaps even with Lada, Pegaso and Dodge being big names in motor racing ...

Following the WI, if it was established in the 1936 Games (Hitler would like this - his Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union teams would dominate proceedings) and the first category was Formula 1, you'd have to get the best racetracks. For most of the Olympics host cities, however, this isn't hard. Berlin (1936) would host the events at the Nurburgring, in all likelihood.

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What about AVUS? OK, it might have seen it become a streamliner race ...

1956 (Melbourne): The Phillip Island racing circuit opened in 1956, so this one would be a natural.

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As Riain mentioned, Albert Park is also an option.

1960 (Rome): The Vallelunga Circuit is closest to Rome, but Monza would have more a viceral and emotional impact, plus you could also use it for oval races, too.

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At the time, Vallelunga was an oval with the current Semaforo section. Perhaps it would spur the improvements?

1964 (Tokyo): Fuji Speedway would host the racing events, which would be spectacular - Fuji's 1960s layout was awesomely fast, and the scenery at the track is incredible.

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Possibly (ITTL it would be finished a year earlier), but it might have been tempting to build one nearer (instead of Fuji?). I wouldn't have been surprised if this was the first games where Formula Two cars as opposed to Formula One machinery was used.

1968 (Mexico City): The Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez would probably host this one, and its a good circuit, though its got nothing on Fuji and the altitude would slow the cars down.

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No-brainer.

1972 (Munich): Undoubtedly back to the Nurburgring for this one, which would make for an excellent test for the drivers - the Nurburgring is a very, very tough circuit. Perhaps for this one they build the new Nurburgring a decade earlier than OTL in order to not get criticisms about the track's safety.

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It is practically the other end of the country. What about the Norisring street circuit, bearing in mind that some of the football was held in Nuremberg?

1976 (Montreal): This one would be between Circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal or Circuit Mont-Tremblant north of the city. Villeneuve is closer, Tremblant is the better track and has the better scenery.

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I'd go for Ile Notre-Dame because of proximity, although it would be built a little earlier ITTL.

1980 (Moscow): This one is a toughie. Moscow would have to build a racing track here or make one out of the city streets, though a proposal involving Red Square was proposed for Formula One for 1983, but it did not come to pass due to bureaucratic crap. Might happen here.....

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Perhaps there was a circuit in Moscow ITTL due to the Soviets having a racing programme spurred on by Olympics? Perhaps if this caused a Soviet programme, would we see a Soviet GP ITTL, possibly in the 60s or early 70s (later to become the Russian GP) - presumably butterflying away that monstrosity in Budapest? Would this lead to an increase in popularity of the European/international formulea in the US?

1984 (Los Angeles): Laguna Seca Raceway would probably get the honors here, though Willow Springs and Long Beach could host, they are inferior tracks to Laguna Seca.

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Laguna Seca has its own issues. Perhaps it would spur a rebuild of Ontario Motor Speedway? If so, that could be a lasting US GP venue; its location on the west coast means that if it's well scheduled it's great for European and American TV and the lack of domestic racing at the time.

1988 (Seoul): You'd need a track built for this one, too. But knowing how big the Koreans did the 1988 Games, I suspect that's not particularly an issue. The terrain around Seoul could produce a helluva circuit, too.

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Quite possibly. There is an outside chance that Nagoya might run Seoul closer for the games, or possibly even get it (Nagoya would have Suzuka). By this time I wouldn't be surprised if it went over to F3, resulting in huge entries.

1992 (Barcelona): Montjuich Park or the Circuit de Catalunya would have no issue hosting, but which one would be a debate. Catalunya is the better facilities-wise.

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It would have to be Circuit Catalunya, mainly because racing didn't go back to Montjuic after what happened in '75.

1996 (Atlanta): Road Atlanta would get its Panoz-era facelift and host events. It's a fast track, and Turn 13 would scare a few guys in all likelihood.....

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Atlanta Motor Speedway is nearer to the city centre - it does have a road course.

2000 (Sydney): Eastern Creek circuit would probably get a makeover here, though it would be sooooo right if the Olympic Races got held at Bathurst......

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Again, probably a no-brainer but there's also Oran Park nearby. If butterflies caused there to be a strong touring car formula at this time (something like Group A continuing, or Supertouring dominating in Australia over the V8s), could we see tourers being a demonstration event?

2004 (Athens): Circuit needed here, too. But again, lots of places where a big-time circuit would look really good.

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For some reason the old airport (the one where the northern third was turned in to the Olympic Park) looks like a possible venue.

2008 (Beijing): The Goldenport Circuit is there, but it sucks. I can see the Shanghai F1 circuit hosting these, and that would be a show, though more for the track's facilities, because the layout isn't anything to write home about.

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I don't think they would allow the motor racing to be held in Shanghai. Goldenport is a pretty poor circuit, I agree - supposedly A1GP drivers compared it to Mario Kart due to the huge bumps. Perhaps it would be like the Soviets. According to some, the route around the Cycling venues looks suspiciously like it was intended to be a race track ...

2012 (London): Crystal Palace is long gone, but Brands Hatch is in Kent which isn't far away, so......

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Probably Brands Hatch, then again it might be a route elsewhere.

2016 (Rio de Janiero): Rio's Jacarapagua Circuit was partially torn up for the Pan Am Games, but a circuit proposal was made to run international events on the small circuit and around the stadium facilities, which would work nicely.

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Got to agree there.

I don't like picking holes, but one glaring issue in your list of winners is that Stirling Moss, who in that list won silver in London, was three years before his IOTL F1 debut.

Well, if it used a fixed set of rules for configuration (like Formula1 or Super2000 racing) and what not were used it'd work. I'd bet that if there were 2-3 classes (take your pick from: Open Wheel, Prototype, Touring car and Rally) it might do better, because each class generally has different price ranges and levels of Competitiveness, so a country like Malaysia or Jamaica() could field a small and Cheap team in a less competitive segment while France, Germany, Japan, US, Italy, and the UK duke it out on the Prototype track with China, South Korea and/or India along for the ride.

I seriously wonder how multinational Automakers like Ford, GM, Fiat-Chrysler, Renault, Volkswagen, Proton and Tata group would be involved? would each division be able to field a team (if selected) for their Home country or just for the Country of the Head office?
B/c it'd be awesome to see a Ford USA/Ford of Australia or Chevrolet/SAAB/Holden/Opel/Vauxhall (just think about it ) grudge match at the Olympics.

What about if the Olympic host chose a national racing series as its Olympic event and one race as the medal event? Ideally the organisers would choose a formula where there is already international competition like the Group A world touring car championship of the mid 80s, or the world rally championship.

Custard Cream Monster said:

If it started in the 30s, which would probably have been the most likely time, due to that bloke from Braunau am Inn liking motor racing, it would probably have been for Grand Prix cars (the term Formula One only came in in 1948); while grids where quite thin in GP cars they were also quite thin in voiturettes (the F2 of the day, although they actually formed the basis of post-war Formula One) and most other forms of racing weren't developed enough. Sports car racing was dominated by the French, and the Germans didn't try in that area.

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I agree, it would have been for GP cars, and as I said, it would be dominated by the Silver Arrows. The Mercedes cars would be faster in the corners, the Auto Unions better in a straight line but much more of a handful. (Dr. Porsche's work with those was excellent, but anything where most of the weight is that far back on primitive suspension and tires is gonna be a BIG handful.)

Custard Cream Monster said:

Host cities providing a fleet of cars sounds sensible initially, but it would be difficult for reasons for getting drivers that drive (say) Loti in Alfas for 1960. Perhaps this would trigger racing teams to be a bit more national, and the Olympics being a carrot for some countries to get in. Perhaps even with Lada, Pegaso and Dodge being big names in motor racing ...

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Again, I like the idea, but the problem there is the Olympics is a competition of human achievement first and foremost, and if one team has a incredibly dominant car that could run (and with F1, there would be plenty of cases of this - Alfa Romeo in 1952, Cooper in 1960, Lotus in 1968, 1972 and 1980, McLaren in 1984 and 1988 and so forth) that would make the result much less of a test of the driver and more of the car, and that is somewhat contradictory to the spirit of the Olympics. I doubt anybody would demand contracts of that sort be held absolutely for an Olympic Games.

Custard Cream Monster said:

What about AVUS? OK, it might have seen it become a streamliner race ...

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I left Avus out for that reason. It's insanely fast, but not much of a technical challenge and not even very well equipped.

Custard Cream Monster said:

As Riain mentioned, Albert Park is also an option.

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Yes, it's an option, but with a purpose-built track not that far away, I don't think its out of the realm of possibility.

Custard Cream Monster said:

At the time, Vallelunga was an oval with the current Semaforo section. Perhaps it would spur the improvements?

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That's a possibility, yes. There is always Monza otherwise, though that's a bit of a haul from Rome.

Custard Cream Monster said:

Possibly (ITTL it would be finished a year earlier), but it might have been tempting to build one nearer (instead of Fuji?). I wouldn't have been surprised if this was the first games where Formula Two cars as opposed to Formula One machinery was used.

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I don't know why you'd bother with F2 cars, because F1 cars of the time (1964) were small machines with small engines. Considering how fast Fuji is, one might also think about USAC Indycars, which at the time were front-engined tanks, mostly powered by 4.1-liter Offenhauser four-cylinder engines. Offys of the time made about 500 horsepower naturally aspirated, which is dam straight better than the 180-220 horsepower of mid-60s F1 engines.

Custard Cream Monster said:

It is practically the other end of the country. What about the Norisring street circuit, bearing in mind that some of the football was held in Nuremberg?

It's 95 miles from Munich to the Nurburgring, straight up Autobahn number nine. (Been there, rode shotgun in an early 90s BMW M3 on hot laps. Scary doesn't describe the Nurburgring at first glance......) To me, that one is a no-brainer, too.

Custard Cream Monster said:

I'd go for Ile Notre-Dame because of proximity, although it would be built a little earlier ITTL.

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It would stand to reason, but if you already needed a circuit, Mont-Tremblant would work, too, and Mont-Tremblant is a helluva better circuit than Ile Notre-Dame from a drivers' standpoint.

Custard Cream Monster said:

Perhaps there was a circuit in Moscow ITTL due to the Soviets having a racing programme spurred on by Olympics? Perhaps if this caused a Soviet programme, would we see a Soviet GP ITTL, possibly in the 60s or early 70s (later to become the Russian GP) - presumably butterflying away that monstrosity in Budapest? Would this lead to an increase in popularity of the European/international formulea in the US?

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F1 was pretty popular in the United States until the end of the races at Watkins Glen and Long Beach in the early 1980s. The (mostly-awful) tracks that held the USGP in the 80s (Detroit, Las Vegas, Dallas, Phoenix) were never successful (though Dallas woulda probably done alright if the track hadn't come apart underneath the cars and it wasn't 107 degrees in the shade on race day), and Indianapolis got screwed up more than anything by Bernie Ecclestone's greed. Also, CART Indycar racing grew to immense popularity in the 1980s and 1990s, which also explains some of F1's problems.

As for a Soviet racing program, that's a possibility, but the problem which killed the Grand Prix of the Soviet Union in the early 1980s was bureaucratic screwups. Perhaps one option to get this is that Brezhnev decides to want to beat the Yankees at their own game in the early 70s (at a time when the American-badged, British-designed Ford Cosworth DFV engine owned Formula One racing) and develop a Soviet Racing team named after one of their carmakers, and take to the F1 circuit in 1974-75 thereabouts. Money does not always equal success (ask the Japanese automakers about how much they've spent at Le Mans and in F1 for how many victories ), but the Soviet team would probably not be a laughing stock by the early 80s.

Custard Cream Monster said:

Laguna Seca has its own issues. Perhaps it would spur a rebuild of Ontario Motor Speedway? If so, that could be a lasting US GP venue; its location on the west coast means that if it's well scheduled it's great for European and American TV and the lack of domestic racing at the time.

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Ontario was torn down because the land there was being re-developed (Though, if Ontario was slated as a 1984 Olympics venue before 1980, that might never have happened.....), so rebuilding it is not an option. Plus, Ontario is first and foremost an oval, and that would not work well for F1. (Though that didn't hurt Indianapolis any, I must admit, but Ontario doesn't have Indianapolis' fame.) Ontario could work, but I still think that Laguna, which had been a racing venue since shortly after WWII and was well known, well-equipped and picturesque, would get the nod.

Custard Cream Monster said:

Quite possibly. There is an outside chance that Nagoya might run Seoul closer for the games, or possibly even get it (Nagoya would have Suzuka). By this time I wouldn't be surprised if it went over to F3, resulting in huge entries.

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Again, F3 cars of the era were dominated by Reynard, and they hardly qualify as the pinnacle of motorsports. I would say keep it with F1 cars, because of the physical toughness to drive one and the level of performance they are capable of. If that doesn't work, stick with something that is fast and has looks, like CART Indycars or even top-level Le Mans Prototypes. Yes, if Nagoya won Suzuka would be the host track, and knowing Japan in the 1980s any Nagoya Olympics would probably be just as spectacular as the Seoul ones were.

Custard Cream Monster said:

It would have to be Circuit Catalunya, mainly because racing didn't go back to Montjuic after what happened in '75.

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And what happened there was an epic screwup by the organizers, which wouldn't happen here. But I agree, Catalunya is the more likely track.

Custard Cream Monster said:

Atlanta Motor Speedway is nearer to the city centre - it does have a road course.

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And the Atlanta Motor Speedway road course is crap and not well maintained, in addition to the fact that the facilities were fairly rudimentary. Road Atlanta is still the more likely candidate, especially as the Panoz upgrade was on the cards already when they won the games in 1989. If Toronto wins out over Atlanta for the '96 Games, Mosport Park would be the host track there, which would be a great Olympic racetrack with enough upgrades, too.

Custard Cream Monster said:

Again, probably a no-brainer but there's also Oran Park nearby. If butterflies caused there to be a strong touring car formula at this time (something like Group A continuing, or Supertouring dominating in Australia over the V8s), could we see tourers being a demonstration event?

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Personally, If we have multiple categories for racing, touring cars woulda started being a category in 1964 or 1968, so they would be well established by 2000. As for Supertouring, Australia's motorsport heritage has always been based around big cars with big V8 engines, so the Supertouring idea never had a hope of eclipsing the V8s, and the Olympics probably wouldn't change that.

Custard Cream Monster said:

For some reason the old airport (the one where the northern third was turned in to the Olympic Park) looks like a possible venue.

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A possibility.

Custard Cream Monster said:

I don't think they would allow the motor racing to be held in Shanghai. Goldenport is a pretty poor circuit, I agree - supposedly A1GP drivers compared it to Mario Kart due to the huge bumps. Perhaps it would be like the Soviets. According to some, the route around the Cycling venues looks suspiciously like it was intended to be a race track ...

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You do have a point there, but let's not forget that many of the water events for the Beijing games were held in Hong Kong, so it IS possible. Though yes, the land East of the Velodrome does look like a decent racing circuit, doesn't it?

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Lot ASB stuff here, as most of the scenarios ignore the strict amateur only rule in the Olympics that only changed rather recently. The Olympic rules, iirc, also greatly limited commercial sponsorship for the athletes.

PhilKearny said:

Lot ASB stuff here, as most of the scenarios ignore the strict amateur only rule in the Olympics that only changed rather recently. The Olympic rules, iirc, also greatly limited commercial sponsorship for the athletes.

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Yeah, Well It'd be a national Team in national colors and possibly with National Automakers competing for the Right to supply the National Olympic team with vehicles.

NothingNow said:

Yeah, Well It'd be a national Team in national colors and possibly with National Automakers competing for the Right to supply the National Olympic team with vehicles.

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Again, the automobile marques competing smacks of the commercialism that the Olympic so assiduosly avoided. The automobiles in auto racing may well be seen as important as the drivers.

Further, there is still the problem of amateurism given all the drivers listed were professionals.

Define a professional driver? In Australia our top touring car drivers weren't salaried until well into the 80s at least, most ran car related businesses and were at best semi-professional. Also in international (non US) racing corporate sponsorship didn't come until the 60s. Who sponsored Ferrari in the 50s and 60s? He pretty much built cars to support his own racing efforts, much like Peter Brock did here in the 80s with HDT Special Vehicles.

I'm sure loopholes could be found for Olympic motor racing if the Olympic officials wanted it to happen.

I am not sure why you ask, "Define a professional driver?"

A more useful endeavor would be for you to research the history of Olympic amateur status. Jim Thorpe lost his gold medal for having taken expense money for a non-Olympic sport--and the medal was not restored until decades later. Under Avery Brundage, head of the IOC into the 1970s, amateur status was maintained as one of the pillars of the Olympic movement.

While you may feel "sure" loopholes could be found, I think any sort of research would dissuade an objective scholar from reaching that conclusion as it would fly in the face of the entire spirit of the Olympics in the seven decades of the twentieth century.

Really, the idea of motor sports in the Olympics seems to be so inimical to the Olympic viewpoint in most of the twentieth century as to be ASB. There was a feeling among many involved in the Olympic movement that the Olympics should harken back to Greek games. For example, until at least 1964, Brundage felt so strongly about the purity of the Olympics he reportedly wanted to end the winter Olympics as he felt the winter games were not authentic. For more on this (and interesting material on amateurism in the Olympics) see:
http://www.coubertin.ch/pdf/schantz.pdf

Consequently, while imagining motor sports at the Olympics may be fun, the idea is so greatly at odds with reality of the Olympic movement as to defy any reasonable categorization other than as ASB.

Riain said:

Define a professional driver? In Australia our top touring car drivers weren't salaried until well into the 80s at least, most ran car related businesses and were at best semi-professional. Also in international (non US) racing corporate sponsorship didn't come until the 60s. Who sponsored Ferrari in the 50s and 60s? He pretty much built cars to support his own racing efforts, much like Peter Brock did here in the 80s with HDT Special Vehicles.

I'm sure loopholes could be found for Olympic motor racing if the Olympic officials wanted it to happen.

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Sailing has been an olympic sport since 1900, who paid for the boats, who paid for their transport around the world? What sort of people competed in these events? I would also say the same about olympic equestrian, olympic level horses are mega expensive to breed/buy, maintain and transport. Would not the same sort of people who have competed in olympic sailing and equestrian, being able to afford boats/horses and the like, be the types who would embrace olympic motor racing? Olympic motor racing would be undertaken by wealthy sportsmen like Briggs Cunningham.

The whole idea of ametuerism and the nobility of sport is to keep second-rate, upper-class wankers competitive and hard-nosed, hard-training, working-class professional atheletes out of the running.

Again, there are two major barriers that cause the idea to be ASB. First, purity of the Olympic ideal and, second, the idea of amateurism within this in Olympic ideal.

Sailing and equestrian sports, such as practiced as in the Olympics, remain primarily in the hands amateur to this day. They are expensive, though no where near as expensive as campaigning a touring car, a Formula I car or a Formula II car. You correctly imply Olympic style equestrian events and sailing are primarily practiced by upper middle class and wealthy amateurs. (So are many other Olympic sports. Poor people in the modern world cannot afford to train, let alone develop the skills being an Olympic class athlete, particularly in the Winter Olympics. That explains why wealthy countries dominate the Olympics now.)

While such rich individuals, such as Cunningham, did race cars, there far fewer of them and they tried to make a business out of it, if for no other reason than taxes. Cunningham built and sold cars, for example.

Also, the idea that wealthy amateurs alone participates does not address the idea of the Olympic ideal of athleticism and skill. As I already noted, motor sports would seem against this ideal as so much of the competition is technological. And again, the cost of motor sports is literally several orders of magnitudes greater than most Olympic sports. Professional or state sponsorship is a sine qua non. Look at how the Nazis dumped money into the Grand Prix to dominate it. This sort of success through spending on technology would be abhorrent to IOC throughout most of the 20th century.

While you may feel that amateurism was to keep out "hard working professionals" and allow rich amateurs, the IOC felt totally otherwise.

For this to be anything but a carwank, you would need to change the whole spirit of the Olympic movement early on. Such a change might well destroy the Olympics, as the primary supporters of it were well connected, wealthy people who liked things the way they were and supported the Olympics because of it. Such a change would also require a commercialization of most of other sports, as most of these were fiercely amateur. Look at British bicycle racing, for example. They had rules about the size of the maker's name appearing on the bicycle. Really, you are asking for a massive change in sports.

Really, you are requiring a re-thinking of class structure in the 20th century. The IOC was run by the privileged classes and the privileged class liked to maintain their privileges. These priveleged classes also would point out, quite rightly, that professionals in many sports have professional outlets for their energies.

Riain said:

Sailing has been an olympic sport since 1900, who paid for the boats, who paid for their transport around the world? What sort of people competed in these events? I would also say the same about olympic equestrian, olympic level horses are mega expensive to breed/buy, maintain and transport. Would not the same sort of people who have competed in olympic sailing and equestrian, being able to afford boats/horses and the like, be the types who would embrace olympic motor racing? Olympic motor racing would be undertaken by wealthy sportsmen like Briggs Cunningham.

The whole idea of ametuerism and the nobility of sport is to keep second-rate, upper-class wankers competitive and hard-nosed, hard-training, working-class professional atheletes out of the running.

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