AH Challenge: Culture Wars Get Violent

[Michael E Johnson]

From: Dale (Shadow6865@aol.com)
Subject: AH Challenge: Culture Wars Get Violent


View this article only
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if
Date: 2003-12-15 18:07:06 PST


NOTE: Please, please, please with sugar on top let's not make this
into a Flame War.

In OTL, The "Culture Wars" is a termed used to describe the tensions
between liberals and conservatives as they fight to see where America
well head in the future. It covers pretty much every single cultural
skirmish. Affirmtive Action, Abortion, the Enviroment, Gay Rights,
School Prayer, Teaching Evolution, Corporal Punishment, How Much Sex
and Violence is in Popular Culture, etc and etc. Also in OTL, the
"culture wars" are very heated but generally non-violent. There are
anti-abortion/pro-life terrorists and pro-eviromental terrorists but
in general the culture wars are fought in the media, the ballot box
and in the courts.

What POD is necessary to make the culture wars more hostile and
violent. I don't just mean open confrotations that end in riots.
Imagine if each side in the culture wars, had a "cell" structure that
engaged in other methods of intimadition: assisnation, explosions,
blackmail, etc. Try to include non-violent crimes like how could
computer hacking and fraud be used as effective weapons? Think
pre-Nazi Germany which almost every political group had its own
paramilitary outfit which often engaged in street brawls and other
methods of violence.

[NapoleonXIV]

The most recent one would be MacArthur leading a military coup to overthrow Truman. From the Romans on its been proven that any kind of free or constitutional govt is lost after that.

In order for violent groups to exist as more than fringe cults the people in general must give at least tacit recognition to violence as a legitimate political tool. Otherwise, violent groups will be turned in quickly and never get beyond fringe status. (This also occurs in totalitarian regimes where the govt is very oppressive but its also very expensive and failing a war or some kind of 'crisis' it can't be kept up too long.) In cases where the military has overthrown the govt violence is the only really 'legitimate' political tool since its the one that established the govt in the first place. (The US was established by violence, true, but it was violence based upon a clear declaration of principles by non-military authority and thus more like a police action or a war.)

Actually, I can't think of any good POD for a military coup that wouldn't require ASB in the US. A military coup cannot succeed here because the people would respond with a General Strike and no govt can fight that.

[Beck Reilly]

The closest the United States has ever come to a coup is the so-called "Conway Cabal" of the Revolutionary Era. It is, probably, the only one that wouldn't require ASBs or MAJOR personality changes in order for it to develop. Most likely, it still would've failed.

Say, perhaps Baron von Steuben falls ill in October of 1777 and cannot join the Americans at Valley Forge. Worsening conditions lead (combined by the lack of distraction provided by von Steuben in OTL) to depression and George Washington being killed a company of his own troops. Perhaps, a charasmatic leader emerges, maybe even one unknown to OTL, and heads the new provisional military/government...

The case could be made, however, that the United States was not really the United States, per se, then...

[Norman]

If the cultural wars had gotten more violent, the chances are the rural areas would starve the urban areas into submission. The Armed Forces, if they took any side, would probably side with the majority population in the area. After the dust settled, the USA would probably be depopulated.

[David Howery]

I think you'd have to do away with the two party system. The Democrats and Republicans include both the moderates and the far wings of their parties, and the former restrain the latter to a large degree. Put the radical left or radical right into their own parties, and you're partway there.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Michael E Johnson

From: Dale (Shadow6865@aol.com)
Subject: AH Challenge: Culture Wars Get Violent


View this article only
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if
Date: 2003-12-15 18:07:06 PST


NOTE: Please, please, please with sugar on top let's not make this
into a Flame War.

In OTL, The "Culture Wars" is a termed used to describe the tensions
between liberals and conservatives as they fight to see where America
well head in the future. It covers pretty much every single cultural
skirmish. Affirmtive Action, Abortion, the Enviroment, Gay Rights,
School Prayer, Teaching Evolution, Corporal Punishment, How Much Sex
and Violence is in Popular Culture, etc and etc. Also in OTL, the
"culture wars" are very heated but generally non-violent. There are
anti-abortion/pro-life terrorists and pro-eviromental terrorists but
in general the culture wars are fought in the media, the ballot box
and in the courts.

What POD is necessary to make the culture wars more hostile and
violent. I don't just mean open confrotations that end in riots.
Imagine if each side in the culture wars, had a "cell" structure that
engaged in other methods of intimadition: assisnation, explosions,
blackmail, etc. Try to include non-violent crimes like how could
computer hacking and fraud be used as effective weapons? Think
pre-Nazi Germany which almost every political group had its own
paramilitary outfit which often engaged in street brawls and other
methods of violence.

Its an interesting premise. Hard to see one POD doing it, but many little ones in combination might....

[David bar Elias]

A darker 1990s? Essentially turn the USA into a pale version of itself from the "For All Time" universe.....