Star Wars Divergence

[RandomIdeaGuy]

What if Lucas had decided to make the prequel trilogy first, and then the (OTL) original trilogy? So, we'd have the episodes made in chronological order, basically. What would be release dates, who would play who, and what would be the changes made overall?

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

The reason he didn't was because he knew the special effects would look terrible for the amount of battling he had planned for the prequel. There was no way he could successfully make some of the prequel trilogy's space battles back then.

The outcome could be that he doesn't even make it past the first couple of movies. Having made a dismall out of the 'epic' battles and numerous lightsabers Star Wars never gains popularity and doesn't become the multi-million dollar franchise it is today.

[Typo]

Star Wars might never make it that big.

The story appeal of the originals simply doesn't match from starting from the middle. I mean it would be a pretty depressing trilogy if it ends with the hero turning into Dark Vader.

[theReturner]

Actually, this might make the 'Prequal' trilogy better. With less focus on technology, and more focus on acting and plot, that might be what could improve the films.

Plus, this means no CGI aliens, so no Jar-Jar.

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Originally Posted by theReturner

Plus, this means no CGI aliens, so no Jar-Jar.

Or it could mean really poorly done CGI aliens, or worse, plastic masks with limited movement.

[MacCaulay]

Originally Posted by Emperor-of-New-Zealand

Or it could mean really poorly done CGI aliens,

Not in 1977, it doesn't.

or worse, plastic masks with limited movement.

Good. Then he doesn't talk. Whatsa yuh problema?

[Hörnla]

I have just recently seen a making of the original trilogy.Back during shotting of Episode IV, most of the staff had the impression to produce a weird Kid's movie. This perception would have been even more prevalent if we think about episode I and its very young cast. There might have been a lot of unknowns as IIRC Lucas couldn't afford many big name stars. IIRC, the only well-known star Lucas could afford was Alec Guiness.We might have seen Harrison Ford as young Obi-Wan Kenobi... Jodie Foster or Carrie Fisher as Princess Amidala?Ricky Schroeder as Anakin?Qui-Gon Jin??? How about Charlton Heston here? Or still Sir Alec?Peter Cushing as the guy from the Trade Federation?Darth Maul... a young Jackie Chan?

[NCW]

Originally Posted by Hörnla

I have just recently seen a making of the original trilogy.Back during shotting of Episode IV, most of the staff had the impression to produce a weird Kid's movie. This perception would have been even more prevalent if we think about episode I and its very young cast. There might have been a lot of unknowns as IIRC Lucas couldn't afford many big name stars. IIRC, the only well-known star Lucas could afford was Alec Guiness.

Yes, it was a shame he couldn't find a better-known actor to play the Grand Moff Tarkin in the original film.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[Geekhis Khan]

I doubt the Darker and Edgier tone would find as spectacular of a place in the culture of the 70s. The original (Ep. 4) movie's rather optimistic "a farm boy and a lovable scoundrel defeat the Big Evil Empire" plot, along with the new-agey tone of the Force, really hit with the culture of the time in a profound way. "Farm slave & lovable(?) scoundrel and possible Messiah figure (all in one) helps evil guy take over the Galaxy then becomes a cyborg monster" is way to much of a downer for the time, IMO.

Plus, of course, there's the fact that Ep. 1 really doesn't have a stand-alone plot the way Ep. 4 does. "Farm slave boy is rescued from backwater world by Heroic dudes while uncovering the beginnings of nefarious plot and yea, kid might be the Force Messiah but we're hesitant to train him 'cause desert boy finds space cold but this really swell Senator guy likes him; well, anyway, we defeat Evil Minion and Main Hero dies and his apprentice decides to train Force Messiah anyway...and we end it there". Alone it's half-a-plot (well, third-of-a-plot...get off my case!). No real obvious spectacular Death Star shattering kaboom conclusion. More ends on a nefarious "to be continued" hook. When you know the rest of the story (i.e. Kid becomes the big, bad villain you know from later in the story, Nice Senator guy becomes Evil Emperor, etc.) the movie makes sense within this larger context, but by itself Ep. 1 isn't a story but an...well, episode.

Since Ep. 4 makes an effective stand-alone story a studio will take a gamble on a small-time neophyte director since if it flops, oh well. At least it was a whole movie. But Ep 1 requires the rest of the trilogy so you'd need a three-movie contract to tell the story. And no one's gambling on "the kid who did that cruising movie" for a three-movie deal.

[NCW]

Originally Posted by Geekhis Khan

Since Ep. 4 makes an effective stand-alone story a studio will take a gamble on a small-time neophyte director since if it flops, oh well. At least it was a whole movie. But Ep 1 requires the rest of the trilogy so you'd need a three-movie contract to tell the story. And no one's gambling on "the kid who did that cruising movie" for a three-movie deal.

That's probably a key point. Ep 4. didn't become episode 4 until episode 5 was under way - probably as a way of accounting for the fact that Ep. 5 also wasn't a stand-alone story, but needed Ep 6 to complete it. Making Ep. 5 part of a series (including 3 as yet unmade prequels) allowed a "to be continued" ending.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[james31]

Kermit the frog as Jar Jar?

Well, there's 2 ways you can look at this. If they made The Phantom Menace first, there probably wouldn't have been a sequel...

Or if this was made when George Lucas actually had to listen to people... Phantom Menace would be amazingly similar to A New Hope.

The plot would be amazingly condensed, movie would prolly start right when the Jedi landed on Tatooine. For simplified plot purposes, Naboo/Tatooine would be the same planet, and the story would be about Anakin Starwalker, starting as a slave kid... before realising he is capable of more.... realising his destiny and destroying the robot control ship.

It would be what George Lucas originally set out to create: a modern update of the Flash Gordon sagas instead of some odd political intrigue flick with pod racers. What's wrong with your face?

[MerryPrankster]

I think the prequel trilogy would be too much of a downer to be popular on its own.

[Geekhis Khan]

Originally Posted by james31

Kermit the frog as Jar Jar?

LAWRL...

Honestly, though, a Henson Workshop Jar Jar is doable: a lot taller due to the need to fit a man inside the suit, likely along the Big Bird model with a hand manipulating the puppet head and a see-through patch in the chest. Tongue will be pneumatic. Ironically might be far more organic and in its way realistic than the all-CGI OTL version.

That or a wire system along the Max Rebo singer model, though this would limit mobility severely.

That alone would scale down or might utterly eliminate any visits to the Gungan city or the Battle Droid/Gungan battle.

Note that the battle droids will probably by necessity be replaced with suited actors ala C-3PO or the original BTS Cylons. Maybe you see the special types like the Assault Droids as Henson creations...budget permitting.

Maybe Henson will be astute enough to realize the Unfortunate Implications of the Gungan cultural portrayal and maybe we see something more akin to actual African culture rather than "Oooh, meesa sorry, massa Qui-Gon!"

Or if this was made when George Lucas actually had to listen to people... Phantom Menace would be amazingly similar to A New Hope.

The plot would be amazingly condensed, movie would prolly start right when the Jedi landed on Tatooine. For simplified plot purposes, Naboo/Tatooine would be the same planet, and the story would be about Anakin Starwalker, starting as a slave kid... before realising he is capable of more.... realising his destiny and destroying the robot control ship.

It would be what George Lucas originally set out to create: a modern update of the Flash Gordon sagas instead of some odd political intrigue flick with pod racers.

Very likely, actually. Good points.

And boy would people be pissed when they see the end of Ep. 3! "What do you mean the bad guys win?!?"

Assuming the studio execs don't force a happy fuzzy Ewok ending.

We can only hope the profit potential of eps. 4-6 will save that from happening.

[RandomIdeaGuy]

Well, since you guys seem to think an earlier ep 1-3 would be hard to do, what if instead we had something like this?

1977 - Raiders of the Lost Ark
1980 - Temple of Doom
1981 - Phantom Menace
1983 - Last Crusade
1984 - Attack of the Clones
1989 - Revenge of the Sith
1992 - New Hope
1995 - Empire Strikes Back
1999 - Return of the Jedi
-------------------------
IMO, the Indiana Jones series didn't really need that much special effects, so moving it back shouldn't be to hard. Maybe Lucas could get prestige from the Jones series, so then the studio trusted him to make Star Wars?

[Hörnla]

Originally Posted by LoyalistColonial

-------------------------
IMO, the Indiana Jones series didn't really need that much special effects, so moving it back shouldn't be to hard. Maybe Lucas could get prestige from the Jones series, so then the studio trusted him to make Star Wars?

But this would most probably give us a different Indiana Jones. Ford was acceptable in a minor role in a silly SF-fantasy...but as a leading hero?


@Geekhis Khan
Don’t underestimate American Graffiti. It is still #41 in inflation-adjusted BO-all-time tables, #3 among the 1973-movies, and (again inflation-adjusted) ahead of “Return of the King”.
(Source: www.boxofficemojo.com)
The problem was that studios weren’t particularly thrilled with Lucas doing something so un-commercial as a silly Sci-Fi movie afterwards.

[james31]

Technically, they wanted to use Tom "Magnum PI" Selleck but he decided to honor his TV contract

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Jones

Originally, Spielberg suggested Harrison Ford; Lucas resisted the idea, since he had already cast the actor in three of his movies (American Graffiti, Star Wars, and The Empire Strikes Back), and did not want Ford to become known as his "Bobby De Niro" (in reference to the fact that fellow director Martin Scorsese regularly cast Robert De Niro in his films).

[Geekhis Khan]

Originally Posted by Hörnla

@Geekhis Khan
Don’t underestimate American Graffiti.

Why do I picture Vader saying this?

"Never underestimate the power of the Graffiti..."

[RandomIdeaGuy]

Originally Posted by Hörnla

But this would most probably give us a different Indiana Jones. Ford was acceptable in a minor role in a silly SF-fantasy...but as a leading hero?

Alright, so, going by my list, who would be the new Indiana Jones, and who would be the new stars of Star Wars?

[Jape]

To be fair Lucas changed his originial intentions for New Hope when he realised it was going to be the first film, he tacked the Death Star on(originally only meant to be in the finale Jedis) in order to give it some punch, there's similar ending with the Control Ship in Episode I, you'd still have that.

TF droids would probably just become men in battle armous, maybe as robots maybe not, a 'Sith' would feature more promenently rather than a few brief bits and a big fight. Perhaps most horrible such a POD would doom Darth Vader almost completely as we see him. Originally Vader and the Stormtroopers were intended to 'fly' over to the rebel ship in Ep.4 with space suits, his iconic mask simply being the graphic artist's idea for the suit. Lucas liked it, scene got cut, kept the cool mask. Really bar the flow of the plot little will stay the same in the name of entertainment, its space opera not a LotR adaption.

Anakin will probably be older, allowing a more immideate love thing with Amadala, make the head of the Guard a more tough action rogue figure and bam still got a traditional band of heroes element. Due to effects the swamp Gungans become something similar like... men in bear costumes? Bam, wookies become the noble savages of Ep.1

Really the whole saga reuses myth tropes and movie set pieces all over, the first 3 films would be nothing like our prequals in order to make fun films, while the second set might end more cubersome things more foused on the grand story than entertainment.

Guiness still gets cast for star power, maybe as Obi-Wan, maybe as Qui-Gon, either way just throw in another Jedi Apprentice who is Anakin's rival, have his character become the mystic mentor for the second trilogy.

[Geekhis Khan]

Originally Posted by Jape

To be fair Lucas changed his originial intentions for New Hope when he realised it was going to be the first film, he tacked the Death Star on(originally only meant to be in the finale Jedis) in order to give it some punch, there's similar ending with the Control Ship in Episode I, you'd still have that.

TF droids would probably just become men in battle armous, maybe as robots maybe not, a 'Sith' would feature more promenently rather than a few brief bits and a big fight. Perhaps most horrible such a POD would doom Darth Vader almost completely as we see him. Originally Vader and the Stormtroopers were intended to 'fly' over to the rebel ship in Ep.4 with space suits, his iconic mask simply being the graphic artist's idea for the suit. Lucas liked it, scene got cut, kept the cool mask. Really bar the flow of the plot little will stay the same in the name of entertainment, its space opera not a LotR adaption.

Anakin will probably be older, allowing a more immideate love thing with Amadala, make the head of the Guard a more tough action rogue figure and bam still got a traditional band of heroes element. Due to effects the swamp Gungans become something similar like... men in bear costumes? Bam, wookies become the noble savages of Ep.1

Really the whole saga reuses myth tropes and movie set pieces all over, the first 3 films would be nothing like our prequals in order to make fun films, while the second set might end more cubersome things more foused on the grand story than entertainment.

Guiness still gets cast for star power, maybe as Obi-Wan, maybe as Qui-Gon, either way just throw in another Jedi Apprentice who is Anakin's rival, have his character become the mystic mentor for the second trilogy.

Brilliant! You should do something like this on ASB or Writer's Forum!