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Old February 2nd, 2010, 07:38 PM
TheNordicBrit TheNordicBrit is offline
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Disunited Colonies?

Hey Guys,

This has probably been asked many times, but how simple could it have been for the 13 Colonies after they'd rebelled to split into separate nations, rather than the original US. What states would've united, if any. What would the political map look like with these nations, and how would each individual nation develop their own individual foreign relations? Also would they all use the general same kind of Presidential system as OTL USA or would each state have their own way of doing things? Maybe (though it's probably ASB) one with a monarch or something other than the Presidential system that came out in OTL.

Also what would happen to the previous Indian Reserve? Would it be divided among the states? Or would it become an actual 'Indian Nation' (though probably ASB)?
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 08:02 PM
He Who Writes Monsters He Who Writes Monsters is offline
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I recall seeing one timeline on the subject - IchBinDieKaiser's America The Fallen, which might help.

It's a very interesting subject, though I don't know anywhere near enough early US history to be much help, I'm afraid.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 08:58 PM
Alex Richards Alex Richards is offline
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Quite easy to postulate some:

New England (Mass., CN, RI, NH) would be one entity.
New York would be another
Pennsylvania (PA, DW) would be a third
Virginia, Georgia and the Carolinas would go it alone or be a fourth.

Vermont would be contested between New England and New York
New Jersey would be contested between Pennsylvania and New York
Maryland would be contested between the south and Pennsylvania.

The west would be an area of rival colonies backing rival tribes. The Iroquois may survive in an alliance with NY.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 09:19 PM
Yelnoc Yelnoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Richards View Post
Quite easy to postulate some:

New England (Mass., CN, RI, NH) would be one entity.
New York would be another
Pennsylvania (PA, DW) would be a third
Virginia, Georgia and the Carolinas would go it alone or be a fourth.

Vermont would be contested between New England and New York
New Jersey would be contested between Pennsylvania and New York
Maryland would be contested between the south and Pennsylvania.

The west would be an area of rival colonies backing rival tribes. The Iroquois may survive in an alliance with NY.
Why would Pennsylvania and Deleware form a single entity?

Each of the southern states would go it alone for sure.

I doubt any one colony, no matter how powerful, will try to militarily take over another, certainly not so close to the Revolutionary war with the threat of Great Britain still looming over their collective heads. So that leaves New Jersey and Maryland independant.

As to Indian tribes, I can see the Cherokees and Iroquois creating there own modern states and surviving, something which may be possible for some plains tribes since western expansionism is delayed. The Creeks would certainly give the Georgians a much bigger head ache. I wonder if a war between the Creek Federation and an actual Cherokee nation allied against the Independant state of Georgia with minimum help from the Carolinas and settlers in Tennessee would be as one-sided as the equivalent conflict in OTL?
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 09:34 PM
mbanghar mbanghar is offline
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Delaware and Pennsylvannia functioned as one colony until the early 18th century. Even after the general assemblies began meeting separately they often had the same governor. I don't think they would become one state but it is likely that they would become a united country.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 10:40 PM
GreatScottMarty GreatScottMarty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelnoc View Post
Why would Pennsylvania and Deleware form a single entity?
Politically, economically, and militarilly it makes sense. As the previous poster said these regional alliances make a lot of sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelnoc View Post
Each of the southern states would go it alone for sure.
Definitly on that.

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Originally Posted by Yelnoc View Post
I doubt any one colony, no matter how powerful, will try to militarily take over another, certainly not so close to the Revolutionary war with the threat of Great Britain still looming over their collective heads. So that leaves New Jersey and Maryland independant.
I think Maryland might look south to Virginia but New Jersey would absolutely look towards New York for Aid. Maryland had a large slaveholding class until the ACW and as such would feel more at home in a Southern confederation of some kind. While New Jersey and New York are very closely related. The elites of both states shared similar socio-economic development patterns (shipping, large country estates), New York would also almost certainly have Hamilton which means financially they are going to be in an excellent position in relation to the other states

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelnoc View Post
As to Indian tribes, I can see the Cherokees and Iroquois creating there own modern states and surviving, something which may be possible for some plains tribes since western expansionism is delayed. The Creeks would certainly give the Georgians a much bigger head ache. I wonder if a war between the Creek Federation and an actual Cherokee nation allied against the Independant state of Georgia with minimum help from the Carolinas and settlers in Tennessee would be as one-sided as the equivalent conflict in OTL?
I couldn't agree more. The only reason Indian Removal was effective (in this sense I mean in killing a lot of Indians, I don't in any way condone Indian Removal or the results of it) was because the Cherokee went along willingly with it, if they had wanted to fight it out, I am confident they would whip Georgia in a second. The only reason the Americans drove them out was because of internal politics and less to do with military skill.
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