AH Challenge: Orthodox Christian Sweden
- Thread starter Dan1988
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You know, this intrigues me, because this might actually happen in my TL. (As I make up what happens next every day when I write it, I have no idea what happens next 
) But with this question, maybe I will....
hmmmmm.....
*deep in thought*
) But with this question, maybe I will.... hmmmmm.....
*deep in thought*
смœрребрœд смœрребрœд рам там там там
Oh sorry, that was Danish, right?
No seriously, it seems plausible that the initial Swedish support for Russian state founding leads to a long-lasting intense relationship.
Oh sorry, that was Danish, right?
No seriously, it seems plausible that the initial Swedish support for Russian state founding leads to a long-lasting intense relationship.
The Vikings did have their own alphabet, you know. Cyrillic was invented for the Slavs, who had no writing of their own.
Christianity reached Scandinavia from both Constantinople and Rome. While Rome was better organized and won out, I could see things going differently.
1) Sweden was eastern oriented. Vikings hit the Baltics and went down into Russia. If Russia converts a tad earlier, the Rurikid connexion, or simply trade could easily cause Orthodoxy to move north and convert Sweden. THis might lead to Orthodox Sweden and Catholic Denmark and Norway, which is fun.
2) there is a passing reference to '3 Orthodox bishops' (or was it Greek or Armenian or something. Eastern anyway) who tried to evangelize Iceland (yup, Iceland) in the late pagan period. Have them be successful. Have them be joined by others going elsewhere. Low probability.
3) have Haraldr Harðráði convert during his time in the Varangian guard. Better yet have e.g. Haraldr hárfagri go the same route and introduce Orthodoxy before Catholicism has a big hold.
4) have a Christian king between 1000 and 1100 realize that if he stays Catholic he has to listen to the Pope. If he goes Orthodox, he can have an independent national church and tell the Archbishop what to do... Remember, up until ?1053? all Scandinavia was ruled ecclesiastically from Bremen.
5) have Orthodox evangelism be earlier and more organized.
1) Sweden was eastern oriented. Vikings hit the Baltics and went down into Russia. If Russia converts a tad earlier, the Rurikid connexion, or simply trade could easily cause Orthodoxy to move north and convert Sweden. THis might lead to Orthodox Sweden and Catholic Denmark and Norway, which is fun.
2) there is a passing reference to '3 Orthodox bishops' (or was it Greek or Armenian or something. Eastern anyway) who tried to evangelize Iceland (yup, Iceland) in the late pagan period. Have them be successful. Have them be joined by others going elsewhere. Low probability.
3) have Haraldr Harðráði convert during his time in the Varangian guard. Better yet have e.g. Haraldr hárfagri go the same route and introduce Orthodoxy before Catholicism has a big hold.
4) have a Christian king between 1000 and 1100 realize that if he stays Catholic he has to listen to the Pope. If he goes Orthodox, he can have an independent national church and tell the Archbishop what to do... Remember, up until ?1053? all Scandinavia was ruled ecclesiastically from Bremen.
5) have Orthodox evangelism be earlier and more organized.
The runes weren't an actual rival to the Latin alphabet either.
So probably they wouldn't withstand Cyrillic, or whatever alphabet comes along with other civilisational achievements.
So probably they wouldn't withstand Cyrillic, or whatever alphabet comes along with other civilisational achievements.
Valdemar II
Banned
We could very well see Sweden split between a Catholic Geotland based in south Sweden and a Orthodox Svealand based around Stockholm and including south Finland and northen Estonia.
Valdemar II
Banned
You forget Sweden position was as middleman between Russia and West Europe, and Sweden had very close connection to Denmark and Norway too.
I recall reading somewhere that some think the great pagan shrine at Uppsala might have actually been an Orthodox church, although I haven't been able to find any backing for that claim.
While Googling it, I did find this:
http://www.quotes.orthodoxwiki.org/Olaf_of_Norway
However, he was baptized a Christian in Normandy, not in Russia.
While Googling it, I did find this:
http://www.quotes.orthodoxwiki.org/Olaf_of_Norway
However, he was baptized a Christian in Normandy, not in Russia.
The Vikings did have their own alphabet, you know. Cyrillic was invented for the Slavs, who had no writing of their own.
I know that. One set of the bonus points is to replace the runes with the Cyrillic alphabet.
(Though maybe with the exception of Þ/þ.)
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Couldn't there be a Swedish Varangian who converts to orthodoxy in Byzantium and then returns to his native land and becomes king?
I know that. One set of the bonus points is to replace the runes with the Cyrillic alphabet.
Why? (aside from the coolness factor). Cyrillic HAS a letter for the 'th' sound, namely 'fita' (basically a Greek theta). In Russian, it is synonymous with 'ef' (the phi-based character), but they would know what the Greek pronunciation was and use it for Swedish. IMO
And it'll probably catch on across the North.
A side effect may result in the HRE going Orthodox if investiture conflicts happen as OTL or at least more autonomous against the Pope. Maybe even driving a reconciliation between Catholic and Orthodox and the formation of a (federal) Uniate Church.
Going Orthodox seems slightly far-fetched; but remember that the role and privileges of the Pope were still being discussed (often in a rather "hands on" sort of way).
Remember, as well, that for instance Conrad III. and Manuel I. got along well with each other, and both fancied the idea of the Pope subject to the Roman Emperor. Of course, they did not completely agree in defining "Roman Emperor", especially if applied to Italy ...
Quite - thing is West Götaland was influenced severely by the orthodox church as several rune stones have been found covered with orthodox patterns/symbols.
Other finds in Scandinavia points to christian influence however small as early as 200AD.
West Götaland would probably be THE possible contender for anchoring orthodox church in Sweden as they supplied the rulers of Novgorod with new blood time to time.
So get the Kings of West Götaland be able to rule a united Sweden or partially united fending off the Danes in the process and you may achieve your goal.
So this would be a POD around 800 and off we go...