Is this even possible? I'm looking for a small colony of Europeans in South Africa before this date, the Phoenicians supposedly went around the cape in 600 BC, any idea if one is possible anywhere? Doesn't need to have contact with Europe beyond its founding, indeed, it's better if it doesn't, just wondered if it's plausible?
Challenge: Europeans in South Africa by 900AD
- Thread starter Overlord
- Start date
I guess if the Romans made significant reforms very early on say in the 100's or 200's its possible for them to be that far forward.
Two real easy answers for you: A wank of Rome which has either colonists that are going to be part of Rome, or resettled tribes/dissidents/whatnot with a Roman naval base in OTL Cape Town and the rest as a Roman vassal (that might or might not break free). Or it might be without Rome's support, having people fleeing the tyrranical Emperor or something like that. You would need Rome to go south, however, before either three options. Try to keep them out of the Middle East, however. Buff up Persia or something that can take them on.
Next, we have Carthage/Phoenicians. Might be harder to set them up in Europe (take out Rome), but they had already traversed the African coast up to Gabon. Going south and setting up something there would not be too hard. Likely it would break free as well.
There are some other options.
-A (much) earlier POD opens up pretty much anything you can think of. Tartessos, other empires based in North Africa or Europe, etc. Preferably not anything in the eastern Meditterranean.
-Uber Alexandrian Macedon might get there, but it's base is in the Eastern Med so unlikely.
-Some sort of other uber-Greek empire. Perhaps Greek colonists in Iberia.
-Uber Gaullic empire.
-Anything else, preferably in Western Europe/Med. Try to ratchet up the contact between Asia and Europe as well.
Others.... eh. Anything after the fall of Rome leaves Europe in way too much chaos to get a maritime tradition going by 900 AD. The only big option is Vikings... except, it's a bit too early to get them Viking-ing so far south. Arabs... no impetus to go south for a long time.
All of my scenarios, however, do not make the colony too interesting. Colonists find the area OK, it's a nice naval base but too far from their base. Contact can easily be lost (due to the Dark Ages especially), and expect the colony to have harsh times. With luck they can manage it. The technological disparity is not too high between them and any natives. The Bantu were going into the north of OTL South Africa by 900, but I am sure that the Cape itself was not settled by them yet.
Next, we have Carthage/Phoenicians. Might be harder to set them up in Europe (take out Rome), but they had already traversed the African coast up to Gabon. Going south and setting up something there would not be too hard. Likely it would break free as well.
There are some other options.
-A (much) earlier POD opens up pretty much anything you can think of. Tartessos, other empires based in North Africa or Europe, etc. Preferably not anything in the eastern Meditterranean.
-Uber Alexandrian Macedon might get there, but it's base is in the Eastern Med so unlikely.
-Some sort of other uber-Greek empire. Perhaps Greek colonists in Iberia.
-Uber Gaullic empire.
-Anything else, preferably in Western Europe/Med. Try to ratchet up the contact between Asia and Europe as well.
Others.... eh. Anything after the fall of Rome leaves Europe in way too much chaos to get a maritime tradition going by 900 AD. The only big option is Vikings... except, it's a bit too early to get them Viking-ing so far south. Arabs... no impetus to go south for a long time.
All of my scenarios, however, do not make the colony too interesting. Colonists find the area OK, it's a nice naval base but too far from their base. Contact can easily be lost (due to the Dark Ages especially), and expect the colony to have harsh times. With luck they can manage it. The technological disparity is not too high between them and any natives. The Bantu were going into the north of OTL South Africa by 900, but I am sure that the Cape itself was not settled by them yet.
CW pointed out some good ideas - let me see what I can come up with. Well, what exactly is your definition of Europeans? Does it just mean people of European descent - or must there most recent heritage be from a European nation. If the former, another possibility (still a long shot of course) might be be a Hellenistic successor Kingdom slowly spreading down the eastern coast of Africa and establishing a bunch of colonies. The two candidates would be the Ptolemaic kingdom from the Red sea, or the Seleucids first colonizing the lower arabian peninsula and then down the African coast to the cape. Of course, none of this is terribly likely - but at least its somewhat interesting.
Crusaders?
If you stretched your deadline a bit I suppose you could end up with Crusaders looking for a way to come in the back door against the Moslems. That would be a major stretch though.
Celts? Some of the pre-Roman-conquest Celts had a sea-faring tradition. Get the Romans off their back and give them nearly 900 years to explore the coast of Africa.
Roman-era pirates? The Romans managed to scupper them, but given a slightly different set of events they might have spread outside the Mediterranean and eventually ended up in South Africa.
Maybe one of the Christian 'heretic' sects looking for a place of refuge? That could be fun. Not sure if any of them would have the capability.
If you stretched your deadline a bit I suppose you could end up with Crusaders looking for a way to come in the back door against the Moslems. That would be a major stretch though.
Celts? Some of the pre-Roman-conquest Celts had a sea-faring tradition. Get the Romans off their back and give them nearly 900 years to explore the coast of Africa.
Roman-era pirates? The Romans managed to scupper them, but given a slightly different set of events they might have spread outside the Mediterranean and eventually ended up in South Africa.
Maybe one of the Christian 'heretic' sects looking for a place of refuge? That could be fun. Not sure if any of them would have the capability.
terence
Banned
The Lembe people, who are physically indistinguishable from the Ndebele around them have long claimed to be one of the lost tribes of the Israelites.
They keep a form of Kosher dietary rules and have several near-Jewish customs. Boys are circumcised at a few days old instead of 13 for instance. Researchers have long suggested that their art echos that of the Canaanites.
The latest DNA examinations shows that they are right, they are the direct lineal descendents of Jews who were in the Levant in 500-600 BC. The theory is that refugees from the destruction of the First Temple made their way to Egypt. After a while they were made unwelcome (there is evidence of Synagogues destroyed in various places) and gradually migrated South--all the way to the now, Northern Transvaal ( sorry Mpungalanga).
What happened to the large number of Roman troops and Greek-Egyptians who followed Anthony and Cleopatra after thiose worthies deaths? Maybe, loaded with treasure they could bolt Southwards rather than Eastwards.
Ships could take them to Axum or even Sofala. Its a short (if unhealthy) trip from there and you have Europeans in South Africa with 950 years to spare--though how they would have stayed racially European is a problem.
They keep a form of Kosher dietary rules and have several near-Jewish customs. Boys are circumcised at a few days old instead of 13 for instance. Researchers have long suggested that their art echos that of the Canaanites.
The latest DNA examinations shows that they are right, they are the direct lineal descendents of Jews who were in the Levant in 500-600 BC. The theory is that refugees from the destruction of the First Temple made their way to Egypt. After a while they were made unwelcome (there is evidence of Synagogues destroyed in various places) and gradually migrated South--all the way to the now, Northern Transvaal ( sorry Mpungalanga).
What happened to the large number of Roman troops and Greek-Egyptians who followed Anthony and Cleopatra after thiose worthies deaths? Maybe, loaded with treasure they could bolt Southwards rather than Eastwards.
Ships could take them to Axum or even Sofala. Its a short (if unhealthy) trip from there and you have Europeans in South Africa with 950 years to spare--though how they would have stayed racially European is a problem.
This is an interesting discussion, let’s expand on it...
"As I listened to the words of this long-dead poet, I felt a curious kinship of the spirit with him. I understood his pride and petty conceits, I admired his bold vision, forgave his wilder flights of fancy and his more obvious exaggerations, and was held captive by the story-web he wove about me."
In 1972 Wilbur Smith wrote a book, entitled the Sunbird, about a group of Punic refugees who escape the Third Punic War (the final destruction of Carthage) and end up building a violent but brilliant little civilisation in central Botswana. This Neo-Punic civilisation (known as Opet after the legendary land of gold) was brought to an abrupt end by an ingenious military figure during the great Bantu
migration sometime in the 4th century AD. The whole book was more of a kind of extended metaphor for the mythology that had been constructed by white South Africans (largely the Afrikaans) during the apartheid era rather than a serious take on what would have happen if such an implausible event were to occur .
Let us at this moment apply a little more **serious*** thought to this possible POD and let us see what happens...
The Prologue
So two biremes escape the bloodbath that is Carthage in 146 BC and flee to where Hamilcar lay fretting and storm-bound at Hippo. After explaining the fate that befell Hasdrubal and the rest of the people at Carthage, Hamilcar decides to flee with his fifty-nine great ships (containing 9,000 men, women and children as well as what is presumably the "tool-kit" of Mediterranean civilisation) down the
coast of Africa. In the Wilbur Smith Version (WSV) these Punic refugees plan to settle in some mythological land described by Hanno some three hundred years before these events. I find this kind of reasoning a little hard to credit, a more logical plan would be to sail around Africa (by hugging the coast) to reach Egypt and the Near East (done before as has been pointed out by others in this forum so it is not an unrealistic suggestion and the Carthaginians have supporters in Hellenistic kingdoms of the Near East).
The voyage lasts two years, as they made slow progress down the western coast of Africa. There were a thousand hardships and dangers to meet and overcome. Savage tribes, animals and disease when they landed, and shoals and currents, winds and calms upon the sea. They voyaged southwards to where the land turned back upon itself and a great flat-topped mountain guarded the southern Cape. Here a sudden gale out of the north-west smashed several of the refugee fleet upon the rocks below the mountain and damages many others. The
survivors sought the shelter of the harbour and strike up a settlement there until their ships could be repaired. After a few failed attempts it becomes apparent that refitting their damaged ships to survive the temped weather of the Cape of Storms proves near impossible and the survivors, tired of their endless and perilous journey, decide to make their settlement permanent (let us say they call it Opet like in the WSV for the sake of symmetry). Their buildings were of thatch and mud and they planted corn, olives and grapes in the dark rich earth.
The Opet civilisation is largely confined to the Cape area as the lands beyond have a summer-rain fall in which the winter-rain crops of the Punic refugees won't grow. Which means that the hinterland will come to be populated by a pastoral people that are fixated on cattle (we assume that the Punic refugees brought some domestic cattle with them or at least pick some up along the way) and a "roam free” ideology. Seafaring would probably soon cease to be part of Opet tradition, as the South African coast lacks natural harbours, so contact with the outside world is minimal.
The Natives
When the Opetians (or do you think Opetites is better?) encountered the San(1), interaction between the two peoples lead eventually to warfare and the San are driven into the more remote parts of the region or taken as slaves. The relative extinction of the San cannot only be blamed on the Opetians as the arrival of the KhoiKhoi(2) in the region about 300 BC had already kicked started the process . In contrast to the San, interaction between the Opetians and the KhoiKhoi through both trade and warfare which leads to a large degree of cultural integration, assimilation and exchange. This process creates the KhoiKhoi-Punic peoples (can anyone think of a better name than KhoiKhoi-Punic?) a racial mixed group that was a clear fission of both Punic and KhoiKhoi cultures (the Punic having the dominant influence). It is these people that came to dominate the
interior.
A New Military-Industrial Package
The KhoiKhoi-Punic peoples have two distinct advantages over the previous KhoiKhoi: horses and iron. The horse is not native to sub-Saharan Africa, and the disease environment of the continent - particularly the tsetse fly - hindered efforts to introduce Asian, North African or European breeds during period of European colonisation. However the Mediterranean climate of the Cape and relatively disease free Central Plateau of South Africa mean that the initial horse populations brought by the Punic refugees multiple and thrive in these "safe" environments before moving into the more challenging interior. In time, as the surviving herds grow more disease-resistant and numerous, the KhoiKhoi-Punic of the interior culled and selectively bred them. By the end of the 1st century AD, generations of selection had produced a hardy breed of horse uniquely suited to southern Africa(3). This new breed will not be as large or as fast as Eurasian breeds but tough enough to carry a man at good speed.
These horse-riding iron-wielding KhoiKhoi-Punic peoples envelope their rival KhoiKhoi on the southern African savannah and by the end of the 3rd century AD stretched from shining sea to shining sea (the KhoiKhoi- Punic "cultural zone" is roughly Namibia, the Central Plateau in South Africa -Lesotho, Swaziland and what was once the Transvaal and the Orange Free State- as well as parts of Zimbabwe and KwaZulu-Natal). The Zambezi River serves as a barrier for the spread of the KhoiKhoi- Punic and their horses (as the disease climate beyond is too tough for this recent African migrant). The horse influenced OTL techniques of
South African cattle herding, allowing riders to maintain greater control over larger herds spread throughout a wider area. Although KhoiKhoi-Punic communities grow larger and more complex as the pasture that was manageable to each increases, these largely pastoral semi-nomadic peoples lack the summer-rain crops (and thus the population density) to establish organised states like Opet in the Cape.
The Great Bantu Migration
By the last centuries BC the advancing Bantu migration had reached the East African coast, encountering a melting pot of Afroasiatic and Nilo-Saharan farmers and herders. In East Africa the Bantu began to acquire millet and sorghum as well as cattle (their own cattle had been lost to tsetse flies while crossing the forests of Congo Basin) and the knowledge of iron smelting from their new neighbours.
Because competing with the numerous Nilo-Saharan and Afroasiatic Iron farmers was difficult stuff, the Bantu move southward towards the less densely populated country of the KhoiKhoi-Punic. In the 5th century AD these Bantu-speaking peoples migrated from the north through the Zambezi River Valley and into the plateau and coastal areas (bringing with them new diseases that greatly destabilise KhoiKhoi-Punic society).
In the OTL, the Bantu engulfed the largely hunter-gathering KhoiKhoi in what was undoubtedly a rapid and dramatic expansion. In the ATL, this is all but impossible given the more advance military-industrial package that the ATL KhoiKhoi (the KhoiKhoi-Punic) possess. Instead the two societies steal and borrow the advances of the other, merging their separate societies and giving birth to a new unique Bantu- KhoiKhoi-Punic civilisation (again can anyone think of a better name?).
This cultural intermarriage combines the summer-crops of the Bantu with KhoiKhoi-Punic horses, allowing the Bantu-KhoiKhoi-Punic to support much higher population densities than their neighbours. New lands are broken to the plough as the introduction of the horse to traditional slash-and-burn Bantu agriculture produces new farming techniques amidst a minor agro-revolution. By the end of the 7th century AD, many Bantu-KhoiKhoi-Punic peoples begin to turn away from the semi-nomadic lifestyle of their forefathers and establish more permanent settlements. However successive waves of Bantu moving southward is a constant source of destabilisation for the Bantu- KhoiKhoi-Punic and their settlements are under constant threat. In time this lack of security will produce the ingenuity that shaped the walled city-states of the southern Africa.
Thoughts?
(1) A hunter gather people with simplistic Stone Age technology and a rich oral history
(2)The KhoiKhoi (lit. "men of men") are a migrating group with knowledge of pastoralism -there are serious disputes among historians as to the time frame of the KhoiKhoi migration and therefore I have made an educated guess of their arrival. In the OTL they intermarried with the hunter-gatherer San, to the point where drawing a clear line between the two groups became impossible (prompting the use of the term Khoisan).
(3) In OTL, horses were successfully introduced to Zimbabwe and South Africa by nineteenth-century European settlers. In addition, Namibia is home to several herds of wild horses descended from German cavalry horses, who have survived despite the presence of tsetse flies. Sub-Saharan Africa isn't a particularly horse-friendly environment, which is probably why there aren't any indigenous breeds, but imported horses have managed to survive there. I attribute this piece of wisdom to the elegant Jonathan I. Edelstein.
"As I listened to the words of this long-dead poet, I felt a curious kinship of the spirit with him. I understood his pride and petty conceits, I admired his bold vision, forgave his wilder flights of fancy and his more obvious exaggerations, and was held captive by the story-web he wove about me."
In 1972 Wilbur Smith wrote a book, entitled the Sunbird, about a group of Punic refugees who escape the Third Punic War (the final destruction of Carthage) and end up building a violent but brilliant little civilisation in central Botswana. This Neo-Punic civilisation (known as Opet after the legendary land of gold) was brought to an abrupt end by an ingenious military figure during the great Bantu
migration sometime in the 4th century AD. The whole book was more of a kind of extended metaphor for the mythology that had been constructed by white South Africans (largely the Afrikaans) during the apartheid era rather than a serious take on what would have happen if such an implausible event were to occur .
Let us at this moment apply a little more **serious*** thought to this possible POD and let us see what happens...
The Prologue
So two biremes escape the bloodbath that is Carthage in 146 BC and flee to where Hamilcar lay fretting and storm-bound at Hippo. After explaining the fate that befell Hasdrubal and the rest of the people at Carthage, Hamilcar decides to flee with his fifty-nine great ships (containing 9,000 men, women and children as well as what is presumably the "tool-kit" of Mediterranean civilisation) down the
coast of Africa. In the Wilbur Smith Version (WSV) these Punic refugees plan to settle in some mythological land described by Hanno some three hundred years before these events. I find this kind of reasoning a little hard to credit, a more logical plan would be to sail around Africa (by hugging the coast) to reach Egypt and the Near East (done before as has been pointed out by others in this forum so it is not an unrealistic suggestion and the Carthaginians have supporters in Hellenistic kingdoms of the Near East).
The voyage lasts two years, as they made slow progress down the western coast of Africa. There were a thousand hardships and dangers to meet and overcome. Savage tribes, animals and disease when they landed, and shoals and currents, winds and calms upon the sea. They voyaged southwards to where the land turned back upon itself and a great flat-topped mountain guarded the southern Cape. Here a sudden gale out of the north-west smashed several of the refugee fleet upon the rocks below the mountain and damages many others. The
survivors sought the shelter of the harbour and strike up a settlement there until their ships could be repaired. After a few failed attempts it becomes apparent that refitting their damaged ships to survive the temped weather of the Cape of Storms proves near impossible and the survivors, tired of their endless and perilous journey, decide to make their settlement permanent (let us say they call it Opet like in the WSV for the sake of symmetry). Their buildings were of thatch and mud and they planted corn, olives and grapes in the dark rich earth.
The Opet civilisation is largely confined to the Cape area as the lands beyond have a summer-rain fall in which the winter-rain crops of the Punic refugees won't grow. Which means that the hinterland will come to be populated by a pastoral people that are fixated on cattle (we assume that the Punic refugees brought some domestic cattle with them or at least pick some up along the way) and a "roam free” ideology. Seafaring would probably soon cease to be part of Opet tradition, as the South African coast lacks natural harbours, so contact with the outside world is minimal.
The Natives
When the Opetians (or do you think Opetites is better?) encountered the San(1), interaction between the two peoples lead eventually to warfare and the San are driven into the more remote parts of the region or taken as slaves. The relative extinction of the San cannot only be blamed on the Opetians as the arrival of the KhoiKhoi(2) in the region about 300 BC had already kicked started the process . In contrast to the San, interaction between the Opetians and the KhoiKhoi through both trade and warfare which leads to a large degree of cultural integration, assimilation and exchange. This process creates the KhoiKhoi-Punic peoples (can anyone think of a better name than KhoiKhoi-Punic?) a racial mixed group that was a clear fission of both Punic and KhoiKhoi cultures (the Punic having the dominant influence). It is these people that came to dominate the
interior.
A New Military-Industrial Package
The KhoiKhoi-Punic peoples have two distinct advantages over the previous KhoiKhoi: horses and iron. The horse is not native to sub-Saharan Africa, and the disease environment of the continent - particularly the tsetse fly - hindered efforts to introduce Asian, North African or European breeds during period of European colonisation. However the Mediterranean climate of the Cape and relatively disease free Central Plateau of South Africa mean that the initial horse populations brought by the Punic refugees multiple and thrive in these "safe" environments before moving into the more challenging interior. In time, as the surviving herds grow more disease-resistant and numerous, the KhoiKhoi-Punic of the interior culled and selectively bred them. By the end of the 1st century AD, generations of selection had produced a hardy breed of horse uniquely suited to southern Africa(3). This new breed will not be as large or as fast as Eurasian breeds but tough enough to carry a man at good speed.
These horse-riding iron-wielding KhoiKhoi-Punic peoples envelope their rival KhoiKhoi on the southern African savannah and by the end of the 3rd century AD stretched from shining sea to shining sea (the KhoiKhoi- Punic "cultural zone" is roughly Namibia, the Central Plateau in South Africa -Lesotho, Swaziland and what was once the Transvaal and the Orange Free State- as well as parts of Zimbabwe and KwaZulu-Natal). The Zambezi River serves as a barrier for the spread of the KhoiKhoi- Punic and their horses (as the disease climate beyond is too tough for this recent African migrant). The horse influenced OTL techniques of
South African cattle herding, allowing riders to maintain greater control over larger herds spread throughout a wider area. Although KhoiKhoi-Punic communities grow larger and more complex as the pasture that was manageable to each increases, these largely pastoral semi-nomadic peoples lack the summer-rain crops (and thus the population density) to establish organised states like Opet in the Cape.
The Great Bantu Migration
By the last centuries BC the advancing Bantu migration had reached the East African coast, encountering a melting pot of Afroasiatic and Nilo-Saharan farmers and herders. In East Africa the Bantu began to acquire millet and sorghum as well as cattle (their own cattle had been lost to tsetse flies while crossing the forests of Congo Basin) and the knowledge of iron smelting from their new neighbours.
Because competing with the numerous Nilo-Saharan and Afroasiatic Iron farmers was difficult stuff, the Bantu move southward towards the less densely populated country of the KhoiKhoi-Punic. In the 5th century AD these Bantu-speaking peoples migrated from the north through the Zambezi River Valley and into the plateau and coastal areas (bringing with them new diseases that greatly destabilise KhoiKhoi-Punic society).
In the OTL, the Bantu engulfed the largely hunter-gathering KhoiKhoi in what was undoubtedly a rapid and dramatic expansion. In the ATL, this is all but impossible given the more advance military-industrial package that the ATL KhoiKhoi (the KhoiKhoi-Punic) possess. Instead the two societies steal and borrow the advances of the other, merging their separate societies and giving birth to a new unique Bantu- KhoiKhoi-Punic civilisation (again can anyone think of a better name?).
This cultural intermarriage combines the summer-crops of the Bantu with KhoiKhoi-Punic horses, allowing the Bantu-KhoiKhoi-Punic to support much higher population densities than their neighbours. New lands are broken to the plough as the introduction of the horse to traditional slash-and-burn Bantu agriculture produces new farming techniques amidst a minor agro-revolution. By the end of the 7th century AD, many Bantu-KhoiKhoi-Punic peoples begin to turn away from the semi-nomadic lifestyle of their forefathers and establish more permanent settlements. However successive waves of Bantu moving southward is a constant source of destabilisation for the Bantu- KhoiKhoi-Punic and their settlements are under constant threat. In time this lack of security will produce the ingenuity that shaped the walled city-states of the southern Africa.
Thoughts?
(1) A hunter gather people with simplistic Stone Age technology and a rich oral history
(2)The KhoiKhoi (lit. "men of men") are a migrating group with knowledge of pastoralism -there are serious disputes among historians as to the time frame of the KhoiKhoi migration and therefore I have made an educated guess of their arrival. In the OTL they intermarried with the hunter-gatherer San, to the point where drawing a clear line between the two groups became impossible (prompting the use of the term Khoisan).
(3) In OTL, horses were successfully introduced to Zimbabwe and South Africa by nineteenth-century European settlers. In addition, Namibia is home to several herds of wild horses descended from German cavalry horses, who have survived despite the presence of tsetse flies. Sub-Saharan Africa isn't a particularly horse-friendly environment, which is probably why there aren't any indigenous breeds, but imported horses have managed to survive there. I attribute this piece of wisdom to the elegant Jonathan I. Edelstein.
It'd probably be easier to just use the simplistic, but shorter, Punikhoi and Punikhoitu.
terence
Banned
So, now I know who built Adam's calendar
No Tetse fly south of the Kunene.
The other problem with horses is the availability of fodder. Acacia and native grasses are unsuitable outside the Cape and some coastal areas. The British had to bring their own fodder in the Boer War (from Argentina!) and the most common grass, Kikuyu, was only introduced in 1916 from Kenya.
Now if you can explain the sheep.....
See my similar post here https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=145515
I was just about to bring up The Sunbird. I read it when I was in elementary/middle school.
(Given the copius amounts of sex the two archaeologists are having in the present and the Phoenician dude and the priestess were having in the past, that might have been somewhat inappropriate. I do remember a black slave rising led by a dude without a hand ending the whole thing.)
(Given the copius amounts of sex the two archaeologists are having in the present and the Phoenician dude and the priestess were having in the past, that might have been somewhat inappropriate. I do remember a black slave rising led by a dude without a hand ending the whole thing.)
So, now I know who built Adam's calendar
No Tetse fly south of the Kunene.
The other problem with horses is the availability of fodder. Acacia and native grasses are unsuitable outside the Cape and some coastal areas. The British had to bring their own fodder in the Boer War (from Argentina!) and the most common grass, Kikuyu, was only introduced in 1916 from Kenya.
Now if you can explain the sheep.....
See my similar post here https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=145515
South Africa has a few pony-like horses used by the locals in *Free State and *Transvaal before the Boer War. Regardless, though it is my belief that, given time and a little prompting from the locals, it is easy to managing a horse breed adapting to the conditions of the Central Plateau in South Africa (which was packed end to end with grass eating animals).
Sheep were introduced to Southern Africa sometime between 200 BC and 500 AD. No one really knows how, the current theory seems to be: the Bantu brought them.
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I once tried a TL where the Loser of an Attempt to overthrow Caesar - Fled with his legions, and ended in Madagascar.
Course you could always go the ASB route -- Varga and the three Legions along with the camp followers, cross the Rhine and disappear from history till 1400's.
Course you could always go the ASB route -- Varga and the three Legions along with the camp followers, cross the Rhine and disappear from history till 1400's.
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This is a neat cultural idea, and I like the anthropological info that went into it. I also like that it met the challenge by creating a hybrid culture, rather than going the route of "European super-empire creates a colony" in most of the other suggestions.
Thinking of a new name for the PunoKhoiBantu civilization isn't easy. If they have a name that they self-apply, it's probably based in Punic (which is largely unknown) and influenced by Khoe languages (which are quite frankly bewildering, at least seemingly, to me). Probably the languages all make generous use of click consonants; after all, the Bantu that came south acquired them. From sheer ignorance, I think a name like !opet would be a lot of fun.
Now this technically doesn't fulfill the OP since the Carthaginians weren't actually European!
I suppose you could say that some Italian slaves were with them and technically have "Europeans" in South Africa.
Historically, does this exodus have any consequences back in the Mediterranean, or does history progress there basically the same?
Thinking of a new name for the PunoKhoiBantu civilization isn't easy. If they have a name that they self-apply, it's probably based in Punic (which is largely unknown) and influenced by Khoe languages (which are quite frankly bewildering, at least seemingly, to me). Probably the languages all make generous use of click consonants; after all, the Bantu that came south acquired them. From sheer ignorance, I think a name like !opet would be a lot of fun.
Now this technically doesn't fulfill the OP since the Carthaginians weren't actually European!
I suppose you could say that some Italian slaves were with them and technically have "Europeans" in South Africa.Historically, does this exodus have any consequences back in the Mediterranean, or does history progress there basically the same?
I think the key lies in Africa not Europe.
You somehow need to have a good, rich civilization arise in Africa (earlier, more civilized, more successful Nigerian kingdoms?).
Trade routes will then steadily form between it and European civilization and sailing down towards Africa will become standard practice with discovering South Africa is quite nice and settling it not being far beyond.
This though would be one of those things where what you do to achieve a desired aim dwarves the effects of the aim itself.
You somehow need to have a good, rich civilization arise in Africa (earlier, more civilized, more successful Nigerian kingdoms?).
Trade routes will then steadily form between it and European civilization and sailing down towards Africa will become standard practice with discovering South Africa is quite nice and settling it not being far beyond.
This though would be one of those things where what you do to achieve a desired aim dwarves the effects of the aim itself.
mojojojo
Gone Fishin'
Very good TL I think this has the potential to be another Lands of Red and Gold How will the cahnges in history you mentioned effect the rest of the world?
terence
Banned
You sould be able to find it on the web. It's a possible megalithic calendar that long predates the pyramids and stonehenge. The whole of the old Northern Transvaal, now Mpungalanga and Limpopo provinces are dotted with the remains of stone circles. They were always believed to be iron age (South African iron age c.500-1500 AD) Kraals. The latest research suggests they are much, much older. I cringe when I think that we used to hold boozy partys in one such place not a mile from Sun City that was thought to have no historical significance--it may be 10,000 years old!