The Film "Taken" Actually Happened

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

Funny, you have no problem claiming it is possible to define what a Libertarian is, but you yourself have claimed it is impossible to define what a true Christian is.

I didn't know libertarianism was a religion. Although, to be sure, I should have guessed by now.

[Nikephoros]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

And calling the Gitmo detainees "political prisoners" is stupid. Aung Suu Kee (sp?) is a political prisoner, as were the people detained in the Iranian election protests. Khalid Sheikh Muhammad is not a political prisoner.

Well Merry, they are political prisoners. At any rate, they are used in politics. Calling them the equivalent of Aung Suu Kee is utterly ridiculous, but they certainly are a political issue.

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by Hendryk

I didn't know libertarianism was a religion. Although, to be sure, I should have guessed by now.

Way to miss the point, unless you're deliberately trying to be smart alecky.

And I'm seriously pondering whether to call myself a Libertarian these days. I might start a new entitled "Classical Liberal vs. Libertarian" to discuss the matter.

[redi.redion]

I have seen Taken and I liked it but the story doesn’t make any sense unless you are and uneducated American racist moron.
An 17 years old American virgin ( good luck in finding one ) goes in vacation in France (the county that the Americans hate the most) gets kidnapped by a band of Albanians sex traffickers (Albanians “prefer” to buy girls from east Europe Romania, Moldavia, Ukraine) . he kills them all(the Albanian mafia is made up by ex-shik Albanian ex-secret service and ex-klm Albanian liberation movement in Kosovo so they are well trained). The girl is sold to an Arab (there goes the al-Qaida connection) like there are no other girls that the guy can get for less money anywhere in the world. So I would say it is a funny racist movie but hey I liked it.

[CalBear]

Originally Posted by redi.redion

I have seen Taken and I liked it but the story doesn’t make any sense unless you are and uneducated American racist moron.
An 17 years old American virgin ( good luck in finding one ) goes in vacation in France (the county that the Americans hate the most) gets kidnapped by a band of Albanians sex traffickers (Albanians “prefer” to buy girls from east Europe Romania, Moldavia, Ukraine) . he kills them all(the Albanian mafia is made up by ex-shik Albanian ex-secret service and ex-klm Albanian liberation movement in Kosovo so they are well trained). The girl is sold to an Arab (there goes the al-Qaida connection) like there are no other girls that the guy can get for less money anywhere in the world. So I would say it is a funny racist movie but hey I liked it.

Gee, hostile much?

[Hapsburg]

Originally Posted by redi.redion

I have seen Taken and I liked it but the story doesn’t make any sense unless you are and uneducated American racist moron.
An 17 years old American virgin ( good luck in finding one ) goes in vacation in France (the county that the Americans hate the most) gets kidnapped by a band of Albanians sex traffickers (Albanians “prefer” to buy girls from east Europe Romania, Moldavia, Ukraine) . he kills them all(the Albanian mafia is made up by ex-shik Albanian ex-secret service and ex-klm Albanian liberation movement in Kosovo so they are well trained). The girl is sold to an Arab (there goes the al-Qaida connection) like there are no other girls that the guy can get for less money anywhere in the world. So I would say it is a funny racist movie but hey I liked it.

So because the villains were not white Americans, it's "racist"?
I have a feeling that you'd say the same if the villains "weren't diverse enough".

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by redi.redion

I have seen Taken and I liked it but the story doesn’t make any sense unless you are and uneducated American racist moron.
An 17 years old American virgin ( good luck in finding one ) goes in vacation in France (the county that the Americans hate the most) gets kidnapped by a band of Albanians sex traffickers (Albanians “prefer” to buy girls from east Europe Romania, Moldavia, Ukraine) . he kills them all(the Albanian mafia is made up by ex-shik Albanian ex-secret service and ex-klm Albanian liberation movement in Kosovo so they are well trained). The girl is sold to an Arab (there goes the al-Qaida connection) like there are no other girls that the guy can get for less money anywhere in the world. So I would say it is a funny racist movie but hey I liked it.

Mills is a retired CIA paramilitary, however, not some random angry Dad.

And if the Arab guy has some kind of fetish for American girls, it would make sense that he wouldn't go for anyone else.

And why are you assuming that there aren't any 17-year-old (female) American virgins?

Plus everyone in the film--the Americans, French, Albanians, and the Arab dude--are white. "Xenophobic" perhaps, but not racist.

[Dave Howery]

I have to admit that the whole 'kidnapping random women' was the weakest point of the plot, since whenever Americans disappear overseas, it tends to be splashed all over our media, and I assume that something similar happens in the rest of the first world. These nations are the most likely to notice such things and investigate them. If there had been a steady stream of women missing in Paris, including a bunch from western countries, it would be noticed pretty soon, and France would smack down the kidnappers PDQ; no way would a few corrupt French secret agents be able to hide it.

That said, I found it to be greatly entertaining. My two teenage nieces found the whole idea to be pretty unnerving...

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by Dave Howery

I have to admit that the whole 'kidnapping random women' was the weakest point of the plot,

This idea of "evil foreigners stealing our women" has to be one of the oldest and most xenophobic plot devices ever. I'm sure early hominids were already grunting each other stories to that effect. It plays to the unformulated prejudice that "we" have to protect our women from "them", and that a father who allows his daughters to stray away from his manly gaze is asking for trouble. The irresponsible and helpless young things need to be kept under watch, for their own good of course.

That such a cliché could be played straight to an American audience speaks volumes about said audience's state of mind.

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by Hendryk

This idea of "evil foreigners stealing our women" has to be one of the oldest and most xenophobic plot devices ever. I'm sure early hominids were already grunting each other stories to that effect. It plays to the unformulated prejudice that "we" have to protect our women from "them", and that a father who allows his daughters to stray away from his manly gaze is asking for trouble. The irresponsible and helpless young things need to be kept under watch, for their own good of course.

That such a cliché could be played straight to an American audience speaks volumes about said audience's state of mind.

So Americans are patriarchal and xenophobic, not just the evil reactionary conservatives but Americans in general?

And just because it is cliche doesn't make it wrong. The Barbary Pirates were in a habit of abducting European women and there ARE Albanian sex-trafficking gangs, although they're not usually in the habit of snatching American women.

And Mills did allow his daughter to travel, on the condition she take certain precautions. She did not take these precautions.

[MrP]

The Barbary Pirates? Seriously?

[Dave Howery]

Originally Posted by Hendryk

That such a cliché could be played straight to an American audience speaks volumes about said audience's state of mind.

It's a pity that we're all so ignorant and foolish...

[Dave Howery]

Originally Posted by redi.redion

An 17 years old American virgin ( good luck in finding one ) goes in vacation in France (the county that the Americans hate the most)

I don't have any hard numbers here in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that Paris is a major tourist destination for Americans... really... in spite of the public image of 'America hates France', when you're talking about vacationing in Europe, Paris is generally first on the list of places to see...

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

So Americans are patriarchal and xenophobic, not just the evil reactionary conservatives but Americans in general?

I meant the people who watched the movie. Hence "American audience". Personally, I didn't even know about this film until seeing it mentioned in this thread, and I like to think of myself as reasonably well-informed on cinematic matters.

[benjamin]

Originally Posted by Hendryk

This idea of "evil foreigners stealing our women" has to be one of the oldest and most xenophobic plot devices ever. I'm sure early hominids were already grunting each other stories to that effect. It plays to the unformulated prejudice that "we" have to protect our women from "them", and that a father who allows his daughters to stray away from his manly gaze is asking for trouble. The irresponsible and helpless young things need to be kept under watch, for their own good of course.

That such a cliché could be played straight to an American audience speaks volumes about said audience's state of mind.

That's a pretty ignorant thing to say, especially since every hominid is influenced by these millions of years old prejudices. There is no doubt that what humans find interesting as entertainment is directly linked to evolutionary behaviorism. So no doubt this movie plays upon both prejudice of the "out group" and parental ties. Big deal. Are you trying to tell me that people in Europe have somehow evolved past these xenophobic ideologies. Surely, you're not naive enough to believe that only Americans enjoy these types of movies are you?

Besides it might surprise to learn that one of the co-writers that wrote the script, Luc Besson, along with the director, Pierre Morel, were French and Taken is listed on IMDB.com as being a French film.

Also for a xenophobic movie it played well overseas...from boxofficemojo.com

Domestic: $145,000,989 63.9%
+ Foreign: $81,829,579 36.1%
= Worldwide: $226,830,568

Benjamin

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by benjamin

Besides it might surprise to learn that one of the co-writers that wrote the script, Luc Besson, along with the director, Pierre Morel, were French and Taken is listed on IMDB.com as being a French film.

Luc Besson has made nothing but lowbrow tripe for two decades. His MO is to out-Americanize the Americans.

As for the xenophobic aspects of the film, let's have a little thought experiment. A movie from, say, Egypt, tells the story of an innocent Arab teenage girl who, while visiting the US, is abducted by a pimp. Local authorities cover it up, and her father takes the matter in his own hands, exacting bloody revenge on the immoral and sexually decadent Americans, and salvaging his daughter's honor and virginity.

No difference from the original story except that the nationalities have been swapped. How does it sound now?

[Julius Vogel]

Well, as I said a couple of pages ago, my 20 something cousin was almost picked up in Nice, France. The police there told her that so far as they were aware there was a lively trade in English speaking women. The operation even had a corporate website filled with youtube videos to bolster their credibility as a recruiter. All of which was taken down soon after my cousin reported it to the police.

[Dialga]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

1. Apparently American virgins fetch a high price (not sure whether this is true or not). Sometimes people can be blinded by greed and ignore their common sense.

OK, that scares me since I fit both categories. How do I protect myself from these folks while traveling? I don't want to end up a slave.

[Snake Featherston]

Originally Posted by Hendryk

Luc Besson has made nothing but lowbrow tripe for two decades. His MO is to out-Americanize the Americans.

As for the xenophobic aspects of the film, let's have a little thought experiment. A movie from, say, Egypt, tells the story of an innocent Arab teenage girl who, while visiting the US, is abducted by a pimp. Local authorities cover it up, and her father takes the matter in his own hands, exacting bloody revenge on the immoral and sexually decadent Americans, and salvaging his daughter's honor and virginity.

No difference from the original story except that the nationalities have been swapped. How does it sound now?

Sounds as Hollywoodish as the current movie. I mean, I'm pretty sure sex trafficking affects poor women in the Middle East, too. Actually such a movie would be interesting if done right and the Arab secret police father was made sympathetic to the audience.

Originally Posted by Hendryk

This idea of "evil foreigners stealing our women" has to be one of the oldest and most xenophobic plot devices ever. I'm sure early hominids were already grunting each other stories to that effect. It plays to the unformulated prejudice that "we" have to protect our women from "them", and that a father who allows his daughters to stray away from his manly gaze is asking for trouble. The irresponsible and helpless young things need to be kept under watch, for their own good of course.

That such a cliché could be played straight to an American audience speaks volumes about said audience's state of mind.

It's also truth in Television and white Western Europeans of today are just as keen on sex trafficking in Eastern European women as they were prior to the Ottomans cutting that market for them off. Does that mean that today's Western European man who buys a Belarusian woman on that market is no more modern than his contemporary ancestor? And if a Frenchman buys a Kosovar woman?

[Dialga]

I'd still like to know how to protect myself against such sex-trafficing creeps who might find me a prime target. Should I carry a weapon with me, or what? I'd really like some help here.