|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
|
Great War: East First
I had posted this time line on another pair of forum's some time ago. I am going to attempt to restart the time line here. The base of this time line is, "what if the Germans decided on a Russia first stance before the Great War?" I have the time line up through 1913 and a few naval battles for WW1 itself done. I am well aware that many have done this, it is just my versio.
As the years go by the sections get longer as the POD force larger changes to the time line. Many items posted are not POD but historic events I include to make the TimeLine read better. I will post updates for the time line here a little bit at a time to give people a chance to read and comment if they so choose. Regards, Michael Quote:
|
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
A major change occurs in German Politics
Quote:
|
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
A random change occurs with respect to Kuwait but I thought it would be interesting to explore.
Quote:
|
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
It's worth remembering that if the Germans go East first, then the Entente is in a much stronger position, as the British government is still likely to enter the war to preserve the balance of power. This will mean that the French retain their main industrial areas, so the massive strategic imperative to go on the offence their loss caused won't be present, but much more importantly, it means that the Germans won't capture the Antwerpen nitrates, and so they will run out before the ammonium nitrate production plants using Haber process comes on-line in sufficient volume to meet the Central Power's requirements.
This means that it is very likely that the Central Powers will be unable to sustain military action after about 6-9 months until the end of the year, and they'll know it. If they try to fight on, the enormous demands for explosives that trench warfare makes will mean they run out and their lines will crumble under Entente assault, leading to a quick end to the war. |
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
From what I have read on what was captured in Belgium it wasn't a huge haul for a number of reasons and was delayed in being got at. If you have other info I would be most interested in reading it. You do hit on a key point in terms of industrial readiness, see below. Quote:
Thanks for reading and replying! Michael Last edited by miketr; December 19th, 2009 at 04:08 AM.. |
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
|
I don't think so IOTL after the blatant violation of the belgian neutrality, two ministers resigned over the declaration of war. So it is unlikely that war would be declared without such a good reason.
|
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Russians would be overrun before fully mobilized. Without the insane attitudes of a later age, Germany would use Polish and Baltic nationalism against Russia. In the West, with or without Britain, the French bleed white trying to attack the German trenches manned by a much smaller force that OTL.
__________________
|
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
Thunder in the Balkans and North Africa...
Quote:
|
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
Got some maps?
|
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Antwerp nitrates issue
I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up and what your answer would be.
|
|
#12
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
As to Antwerp I recall reading about the Germans siezing raw materials from Belgium but my memory is the Germans were hugely disappointed by the haul. I did a quick check of my books and was unable to find any details. I will look again tomorrow Last edited by miketr; December 20th, 2009 at 03:57 AM.. |
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Again the TL Looks very good and interesting(the POD is extremly counterfactual and very pausable), keep there will be a very good tl |
|
#14
|
|||
|
|||
|
Nivek without saying to much in the way of details the British will have there own reasons for joining the war. As to Ireland keep an eye on British politics and party leaderships a big change is going ot occur
Thanks for reading |
|
#15
|
|||
|
|||
|
Politically the British were committed to war. The Tories and half the Liberals were all for it, so if the Liberals decide not to enter the government will fall and the new one will declare.
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
|
Final Act of the Balkan Wars
Quote:
|
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I agree that it isn't in the interest of the UK to allow Germany to become the master of Europe but the UK has no alliance to honor and isn't a dictatorship; they need a reason to declare war. Quote:
#2) Look at the time line, the Germans have paid much closer attention to raw materials and in effect the War Materials Section was formed pre-war. They are aware of what they can and will loose to a blockade. So as soon as the war starts and its clear that the UK isn't going to join in German industry through KRA starts building up a stockpile on what it can from the start and with raw materials control in place from the start. So net effect is the Germans are better off. 1914 timeline has some differences with respect to the Haber Proccess in terms of plants. French law is black letter on the subject they can't reflag their shipping. When they do so anyways this becomes one of the Casus Belli for the UK after the Germans start siezing form French flagged shipping. This has interesting side effects down the road. Quote:
|
|
#18
|
|||||||
|
|||||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
POD June, Summer Staff ride, Moltke does two runs of a campaign vs. France. The first sends the entire army except 10 divisions in a great wheel through Belgium; the remaining 10 divisions plus 10 Italian Divisions hold the line in Elsaß-Lothringen. The result was a German victory if just. The second test of the campaign has Moltke removing 10 divisions from the right wing to reinforce either the left wing in Elsaß-Lothringen to cover Italy not honoring its alliance or to defend in the East vs. Russia. The result is a stalling of the German attack and it then being driven back when 50 Battalions of a British Expeditionary Force and 66 French Battalions of the Garrisons of Paris and Northern Coasts join the battle at D + 35. A number question the assumptions that the second staff ride operated under. You can said anything against that POD(postdiction or the use of future sight) but that means that nominally, the know the danger of the 'trench slatemate' who was the WW1 pre USA entry to the war, eternal situation and dilema in the Western Front. that doesn't means who germany will have perfect supplies(don't throw us lies that impossible for any belligerant in a war), but have a better supply situation or more strategic interesting(like the legendary Operation Unicron). Again about the British entry of war.... everybody here that will be better for them no entry to the mess... but like a little unavoidable, if the britsh enter to the war for the Entete in december, that means 4 months with lesser troups for france and more spare troups for germany to Russia(again the East first stategy is risky but if Germany doesn't attack belguim before England DOW, that means a little more troups for the eastern front and that means a worse tanneberg) Again a war is never perfect, you're always work over the way with the aviable resource, and the war didn't start yet.. for that any little butterflies post POD will be crucial for any side. Att Nivek von Beldo |
|
#20
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
If they recognise that this is a real risk, why are they going to war in the first place? |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|