AH Challenge: Bohemian Superpower

[tom]

Make my ancestral people (the Bohemians) the most powerful entity in 2004 in a world with at least industrial technology.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Originally Posted by tom

Make my ancestral people (the Bohemians) the most powerful entity in 2004 in a world with at least industrial technology.

Well, there aren't enough Czechs to be a superpower, but you could certainly quite easily make Bohemia the center of a superpower.

Just have the Luxembourgs succeed in their aims and create a more unitary state out of the Holy Roman Empire - for a while they had Bohenia, Silesia, and Hungary, and were Holy Roman Emperors. So, they consolidate, and the Bohemian Empire consists of Germany and most of what was later Austria-Hungary, with the Emperor resident in Prague.

[Leo Caesius]

Bohemia under Rudolf II Habsburg (1576 to 1612) was the place to be, apparently.

from his Biography:

"Rudolf was an intelligent and gifted man. He spoke several languages with ease, had a good taste for art and was interested in mathematics and science. Since his return from Spain, however, Rudolf suffered from dark moods and after his crowning they continued to deepen. Those were troubled times. Germany was divided by Protestant and Catholic factions. A mighty earthquake took place in Vienna and the plague came and went, as did the Turks. In 1577 Rudolf suffered his first emotional breakdown, became severely melancholic and rarely left the castle. Four years later, he was so ill that there were fears for his life. He rapidly lost weight. The next year he decided to move his residence permanently to Prague in Bohemia to escape the crowds and pressures of Vienna. He turned to the study of astronomy and magic and started collecting beautiful and curious objects.

Rudolf gathered astronomers, humanists, physicians, artist, craftsmen and antiquarians about him. In the castle gardens the Danish astronomer, Tycho Brahe, set up his instruments for observing the stars and wrote down his measurements of the planetary movements. When Rudolf's cousin, Archduke Ferdinand of Styria, banished Johannes Kepler from his province, Rudolf welcomed him at his court. Using Brahe's computations, known as the "Rudolphine Tables", Kepler developed his theory of the elliptical movements of the planets. Meanwhile, alchemists stirred mysterious vats in the kitchens of Hradschin castle, experimenting with elixirs. Exotic animals strolled through the corridors. In addition, Rudolf collected paintings of, among others, Breughel and Correggio.

(...)

On January 19, 1612, his condition deteriorated and the next morning he died. Nonetheless, the people of Prague mourned "der gute Herr", because his reign was regarded as Prague's golden age."

Throughout his life Rudolf was contantly at ends with the rest of the Habsburgs, who eventually conspired to depose him. Perhaps if Rudolf hadn't been so inbred, or if his alchemists had discovered a way to cure him from his melancholy, Prague could have been the capital of a Bohemian empire. There's plenty of potential for ASBs in this timeline, as well... among the magicians with whom he consulted were Rabbi Judah Loew (the creator of the famous Golem of Prague) and John Dee.

[Max Sinister]

Cynics will say: It could have worked, but one or two centuries later, the professors at the Bohemian / German universities will still fool around with alchemy, while the people in France and England are doing Real Science. >;->

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by Max Sinister

Cynics will say: It could have worked, but one or two centuries later, the professors at the Bohemian / German universities will still fool around with alchemy, while the people in France and England are doing Real Science. >;->

Because good queen bess would never deal with astrologers?

[Gladi]

Originally Posted by Abdul Hadi Pasha

Well, there aren't enough Czechs to be a superpower, but you could certainly quite easily make Bohemia the center of a superpower.

Just have the Luxembourgs succeed in their aims and create a more unitary state out of the Holy Roman Empire - for a while they had Bohenia, Silesia, and Hungary, and were Holy Roman Emperors. So, they consolidate, and the Bohemian Empire consists of Germany and most of what was later Austria-Hungary, with the Emperor resident in Prague.

Bright day
Not enough Czechs- why? Hussite wars, 30-year war, emigration from under Austrian yoke.

Actually, the easiest way in my opinion is to make Przemysl Ottakar II attend election of Holy Roman Emperor- he would have win then, able to continue his expansion, and his son even in reality was more brilliant than him, and in this alternate reality he woul not be mental cripple.

May all your ays be bright

[Susano]

Hussite wars werent THAT devsasting, at least not compared to the 30 years war - in which nearly ALL of germany suffered greatly. Even if you give perfetc conditions to teh czech, they couldnt be a larger nation, population-wise than, say, GB or France. Even that is VERY unlikely, even under perfect conditons.

[Gladi]

Originally Posted by Susano

Hussite wars werent THAT devsasting, at least not compared to the 30 years war - in which nearly ALL of germany suffered greatly. Even if you give perfetc conditions to teh czech, they couldnt be a larger nation, population-wise than, say, GB or France. Even that is VERY unlikely, even under perfect conditons.

bright day
You have every right to disagree. After 30-years war more Bohemians were dead than alive. Your point is valid only if confer(?) Bohemia to Bohemia proper. But Bohemia at its highest would be able to project itelf outwards. Modern population of Czech Republic derives mostly only from two larger tribes- Czechs and Moravians. In event of greater Bohemia - Silesians, part of Bohemian Estates in reality, in AH they would stay there and be standardizied, Slovaks- in OTL they almost got Czech as official language, in AH everybody would consider them Czech, Lusatian- possibly Serbs would be standardisied too. Further- Slovenes- in my ATL Carinthia is under czech crown a slavic rule, codification and standartization of slavic dialects would propably affect Slovenes too. Austrians- no way, german would be importnat language in ATL too, but not dominant thanks to large slavic areas. Magyars- I have no idea- slavic natives througnout Hungary would propably identify themselves with a state-wide standard, but I doubt Magyars would follow course of Bulgars. The above mentioned argument of course starts with nationalism. Before that Bohemian is everybody ruled by Bohemian king and therefore it is non-issue.
May all your days be bright

[Susano]

As may yours, heh.

It is a possibility, yes, but really only a "*everything*-goes-well" possibility, heh. While the Czechs/Bohemians can maybe surely assimilaty fellow slav nations, german or maygar settled territoires might be a bit.. mor dififcult. For one, those nations are bigger... it is more difficult to assimilate a region, when a big aprt or even the majority is out of the territory, as it would be with Silesia and Austria and the Germans. And it is even more difficult if the nationto be assimilated is not related to the possibel assimilators...

[Gladi]

Oh, thank you
"Everything goes well"- not so implausible when you realize that in OTL "everything went bad", but still even in OTL Ottocar II was the greates and Wenceslas II the most brilliant. And I had acknowledged that there is "fat chance" for assimilation of Austrians and very very considerable doubt for Magyars.