The Airship President, a TL

[Jotun]

Eckener, I'd respectfully request you develop the timeline until 2010. Until now, it has been too awesome for mere words and I'd really like to see what the long-term results of your POD are going to be...

Just my 0.02€, though...

[Eckener]

Thanks for all the feedback.
I'll fix those typos.

And I agree that my solution for Danzig, and if it's okay with seraphim, I'd like to use his suggestion.

Hope to have a new update soon. Btw, I can tell u I plan on having President Hull die in a plane crash after making a big deal about not using airships.

[A.M. Turtle]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Speaking of typos "...large gondola for deluxe cabins, and many more births inside the hull...". You mean berths, it's a passenger liner, not a flying maternity hospital.

I was born over Dallas.

[GreatScottMarty]

I think you should continue to 2010. This really good stuff.

[glenn67]

Originally Posted by Eckener

Thanks for all the feedback.
I'll fix those typos.

And I agree that my solution for Danzig, and if it's okay with seraphim, I'd like to use his suggestion.

Hope to have a new update soon. Btw, I can tell u I plan on having President Hull die in a plane crash after making a big deal about not using airships.

That means a President Will Rogers.

"I am not a member of any organized party. I am a Democrat."

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Eckener

Thanks for all the feedback.
I'll fix those typos...

The Emperor and Empress would be Imperial Majesties, not Imperial Highnesses. Only the German Crown Prince & his wife would be Imperial Highnesses. The Emperor's other children would only be Royal Highnesses and they'd be Prince(ess) ______ of Prussia (not Germany). As for Empress Kira Kirillovna; she was devoutly Russian Orthodox (her and Prince Louis Ferdinand had 3 weddings; civil, Orthodox, & Lutheran) at a time when the Russian Orthodox church was on the verge of extinction (Stalin didn't ease up and permit a revial unill WWII). There's all kinds of stuff she can do to piss off the Soviets.

Originally Posted by Eckener

...Hope to have a new update soon. Btw, I can tell u I plan on having President Hull die in a plane crash after making a big deal about not using airships.

Talk about bad PR; the first time a POTUS flys in an airplane (after making a big deal about not using airships) and it crashs and he dies. Are you planning on giving the IJN the submarine aircraft carriers? True, they aren't going to be able pull off any Pearl Harbor-level air raids on San Francisco or LA, but they can create massive panic on the West Coast (even worse than IOTL). Japanese-Americans are probally still going to get sent to internment camps (and face lynch mobs after the first air raids).

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by Dathi THorfinnsson

Ouch! Ouch!

Wilhelm (Wilehlem is.... way beyond just typos); the other mistake is more excusable. It's der Große - otherwise you've got a double masculine ending. (Theoretically you could be Frederick Großer OR Frederick der Große, but only one strong masculine adjectival 'r' in any case. AFAIK, only the second is used.)

Still not entirely correct
Friedrich der Große is the only possible form: Frederick is English, not German. And Frederick Großer means Frederick Greater, sounds just as bad in German as it does in English.
An alternative would be to call it der alte Fritz

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by Xavier

Still not entirely correct
Friedrich der Große is the only possible form: Frederick is English, not German.

GAAAH! Duh, of course. Goofed on that one.

Originally Posted by Xavier

And Frederick Großer means Frederick Greater, sounds just as bad in German as it does in English.
An alternative would be to call it der alte Fritz

Heh. Like 'alte Fritz'

[Eckener]

Originally Posted by glenn67

That means a President Will Rogers.

"I am not a member of any organized party. I am a Democrat."

Yes it does. By 1945, the POTUS would be Will Rogers

@alphaboy: Though my plan for conflict between the Soviets and Germany will be a commie revolution in Poland that the Soviets will back and that the Germans will oppose. But, I like the idea of the German Empress using her faith against the soviets....perhaps hosting the Patriarch of ROCOR(russian orthodox church outside russia) to take up residence in Berlin, maybe having the construction of a massive Russian Orthodox Church in Berlin.

Hope to have a new update soon....like by this weekend..no promises though.

[seraphim74]

Originally posted by Eckener

Though my plan for conflict between the Soviets and Germany will be a commie revolution in Poland that the Soviets will back and that the Germans will oppose.

Be careful with communist revolution in Poland. It is true, the Sanacja was loosing popularity in 1939 OTL and loosing part of the Corridor (which, as I mentioned above, seem completely improbable to me) will not give it any bonus points either. However, that would rather strengthen the nationalits, not the left wing. Besides, communism was not so popular in Poland, since many Poles had already had some experience with that in 1920. Polish left, which was popular, was more of socialist kind. The Communist Party of Poland was practically destroyed during Stalin's purges - almost all CPP members in USSR were executed. Paradoxally, many of the survivors of CPP owed their lives to the fact they had been in Polish prisons at the time. Polish police also quite successfully infiltrated existing communist cells.
If you really have to create some turmoil in Poland make it start like some kind of uprising against the Sanacja. Say, another peasant strike, like in 1937, only bloodier. Workers join the peasants in protest and are in turn attacked by the nationalists who were called for help by the Sanacja's right wing. USSR naturally comes to help "the opressed people" of Poland, even if rebellion leaders aren't actually so fond of the communism. Those leaders are from Polish Socialist Party (PPS) and Polish Peasant Party (PSL). OTOH nationalists would not have been happy with German help, since they didn't like them (Dmowski was very anti-German).
So, as you can see, there might be some problems ahead.
Also, I believe that your solution of Danzig crisis is extremely impropable - see my post above.

[Eckener]

Originally Posted by seraphim74

Originally posted by Eckener

Be careful with communist revolution in Poland. It is true, the Sanacja was loosing popularity in 1939 OTL and loosing part of the Corridor (which, as I mentioned above, seem completely improbable to me) will not give it any bonus points either. However, that would rather strengthen the nationalits, not the left wing. Besides, communism was not so popular in Poland, since many Poles had already had some experience with that in 1920. Polish left, which was popular, was more of socialist kind. The Communist Party of Poland was practically destroyed during Stalin's purges - almost all CPP members in USSR were executed. Paradoxally, many of the survivors of CPP owed their lives to the fact they had been in Polish prisons at the time. Polish police also quite successfully infiltrated existing communist cells.
If you really have to create some turmoil in Poland make it start like some kind of uprising against the Sanacja. Say, another peasant strike, like in 1937, only bloodier. Workers join the peasants in protest and are in turn attacked by the nationalists who were called for help by the Sanacja's right wing. USSR naturally comes to help "the opressed people" of Poland, even if rebellion leaders aren't actually so fond of the communism. Those leaders are from Polish Socialist Party (PPS) and Polish Peasant Party (PSL). OTOH nationalists would not have been happy with German help, since they didn't like them (Dmowski was very anti-German).
So, as you can see, there might be some problems ahead.
Also, I believe that your solution of Danzig crisis is extremely impropable - see my post above.

Thanks for the info, I'll be able to be more thorough in my planning of the Soviet conflict.
As for the Danzig crisis, it is my plan to go ahead and use what u suggested earlier, if that's alright with you. It's much better than what I came up with, hands down.

[seraphim74]

Of course it is all right with me. That is why I posted all those suggestions. Have fun with writing your TL, I certainly have fun reading it.

[DuQuense]

Re the Helium/Hydrogen problem. ie cost v flammability
There is a mixture of Helium with Hydrogen [IIRC 30/70] where you get the lift of Hydrogen but the addition of Helium renders the mixture much less flammable.
Ie It will burn, but requires direct flame to ignite.

?Wonder about the status of the Baltic's, & Finland.?

With an extra 3 years of war, ?what happened in China before the attacks on GB & US?

OTL the biggest competitor of the Airship where the China Clipper Flying Boats. ?What is the Status of Sea planes ITTL?

OTL in 1941 both of the two major locomotive manufacturers came out with super high speed Steam Locomotives for the passenger train market.
The attack on Pearl ended these orders, and the plans to upgrade the rails. but ATL They have had 3 years to get established.

With Goodyear heavily involved in the Airship industry, I doubt if they will get involved in OTL's post war conspiracy to destroy the Trolley Industry.

[Eckener]

Originally Posted by DuQuense

Re the Helium/Hydrogen problem. ie cost v flammability
There is a mixture of Helium with Hydrogen [IIRC 30/70] where you get the lift of Hydrogen but the addition of Helium renders the mixture much less flammable.
Ie It will burn, but requires direct flame to ignite.

That's an idea, as is having the design that was proposed during the construction of the LZ-130 (i think), which as to have the ship primarily inflated with hydrogen, but to have the hydrogen gas cells lined with smaller helium cells.

Originally Posted by DuQuense

?Wonder about the status of the Baltic's, & Finland.?

With an extra 3 years of war, ?what happened in China before the attacks on GB & US?

OTL the biggest competitor of the Airship where the China Clipper Flying Boats. ?What is the Status of Sea planes ITTL?

I dunno yet. I would imagine that the Soviets would slowly try to court these states, and if war breaks out in Poland by the end of the 1940s....who knows. As for China...my guess would be that Japan would be able to make more gains in China without having to also fight the west....so that, even with the end of the Pacific War (which I don't think will be an unconditional surrender), Japan still might control parts of China. And as for the seaplanes....I could still see them being used, but then again....I mean, PanAm's pretty set on using airships by this point.

Originally Posted by DuQuense

OTL in 1941 both of the two major locomotive manufacturers came out with super high speed Steam Locomotives for the passenger train market.
The attack on Pearl ended these orders, and the plans to upgrade the rails. but ATL They have had 3 years to get established.

You read my mind. I was driving into school this morning and pondering what the effects of no WWII would be on our highways and infrastructure in the US. Could you get me the info about the high speed trains and such..it's definitely something to consider.

Originally Posted by DuQuense

With Goodyear heavily involved in the Airship industry, I doubt if they will get involved in OTL's post war conspiracy to destroy the Trolley Industry.

I agree here as well. I think that their airship building program is now their primary business...although it could be that Goodyear Tire is now a separate entity all together with the formation of Zeppelin-Goodyear International (ZGI).

So, I was kinda planning ahead, and was working around some ideas in my head for Eckener's death. Wanted to see what you guys thought:
-Have his birthday become a national holiday by decree of the Kaiser
-Have Friedrichshafen vote to change their name to Eckenershafen
-Having a large Mausoleum built on the shores of the Bodensee for Eckener, where the Flag of the Republic and the Flag of the Empire are flying, with the Republic's flag given the place of higher prominence.

[C.Cain]

Originally Posted by Eckener

-Have Friedrichshafen vote to change their name to Eckenershafen

Why don't you name OTLs Wolfsburg Eckenersburg or something? The city was founded in 1938.

[Geekhis Khan]

On Flying Boats: ITTL Pan Am has gone the way of Zep for the huge Trans-Oceanics...however there's still a real market for smaller FBs as feeder shuttles. DC-3 from Nashville to New Orleans, FB from New Orleans to Miami, Zep from Miami to Rio. This favors smaller FBs along the S-42/43 model and butterflies the Martin M-130 "China Clipper" big FB model. Instead the Sikorsky S-44 ATL is along the S-40/42 size.

On Ek's legacy: I can see the memorial. I know he's popular ATL, but enough for a national holiday or city renaming? Maybe in fifty years when the true scale of what he accomplished is known without the blinders of contemporary politics. As for city naming I agree with C.Cain: you need a more generically-named city to gain his name. I doubt he'll have a legacy that outshines Frederich! Maybe found a "Newburg" to name for him in the outskirts nearby around the new Zep port when travel requirements outweigh the Old Fred Field's growth capabilities

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Eckener

...So, I was kinda planning ahead, and was working around some ideas in my head for Eckener's death. Wanted to see what you guys thought:
-Have his birthday become a national holiday by decree of the Kaiser
-Have Friedrichshafen vote to change their name to Eckenershafen
-Having a large Mausoleum built on the shores of the Bodensee for Eckener, where the Flag of the Republic and the Flag of the Empire are flying, with the Republic's flag given the place of higher prominence.

Those are good ideas, but the first won't happen for a few decades, and the second is very unlikely. You left out the most obvious option; naming the first new class of zeppelins launched after his dead after him.

[Jotun]

Originally Posted by C.Cain

Why don't you name OTLs Wolfsburg Eckenersburg or something? The city was founded in 1938.

Good idea...

Furthermore, I see a lot of city streets (re)named, an international airport (or whatever you call airports for zeppelins) named after Eckener, as well as a new airship class (jumping on the suggestions bandwagon here ) or maybe even a cruiser or whatnot.

What about a scholarship fund for economics, political science and/or history majors at a prestigious German university? The Eckener fund...sounds good to me.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Eckener

...You read my mind. I was driving into school this morning and pondering what the effects of no WWII would be on our highways and infrastructure in the US. Could you get me the info about the high speed trains and such..it's definitely something to consider...

Maybe train travel remains the prefered option for long distance travel in the US for longer. I can see lot's of government money going to the rail network instead of highways. Earlier highspeed rail would be a bad thing for airlines. I don't think airships will compete with trains very well. Other than one transcontinental route to enable round-the-world travel there probally won't be much domestic service. Or the occasional transatlantic flight launched from somewhere like Chicago. Maybe someone tries (PanAm or a domestic airline) with something like Goodyear's "economy airship" from Why Has America No Rigid Airships?

I wonder what passenger planes are going to look like when they start to replace airships? Jets wouldn't come along until the 70s or 80s. Would the flying boat design remain dominate? Bel Geddes did have his designs for Airliner # 4; which may have worked as a boat, but it would never actually fly.

[DuQuense]

Re flying Boats and Zeppelins
It was WW2 that built the net work of Long runways that allowed the big land planes [B 17s & B 29s] that killed the flying boats and the need for water front airports.
Without WW2 whe won't have the long runways or the planes that need them.