The Airship President, a TL

[zoomar]

This evolution of this TL continues to fascinate. I have a few comments for consideration, some only concerning details:

In a TL with a successful Weimar Republic, would an airship still be named "Hindenburg"? Hindenburg was a war hero, true, but in the eyes of the now successful and well-entrenched republic he might be seen as conservative monarchist relic of the old regime and not someone this new liberal Germany would celebrate all that much. Also, in this TL, he would not be the "elder statesman" President he became in later life.

I have a problem with terms such as "air navy" and "air sailors" and the name "US Naval Airship Corps". These terms suggest that a fairly independent service is evolving, in the same way the US Army Air Corps evolved eventually into the USAF. I don't see it. As far as I know, airships were considered part of the regular fleet, the ships were commanded and classified in the same way surface units were. Officers and men could be switched between service on surface ships to airships and vice versa. Their mission was also firmly linked to fleet operations. There was no separate "US Navy Air Corps" for the navy's other aviation functions, so I doubt a formally separate airship corps would be established for airships, even in this zep-friendly TL. I would image these ships would be assigned to the atlantic and pacific fleets in the same way blimps served in patrol squadrons under fleet command. Perhaps in a manner analogous to submarines in WW2, airships might be seen as functioning within a US Navy Airship Service.

Of all other countries, I think the USSR would be most likely to have interest in large rigid airships for a number of reasons. For one, relations between Weimar and the USSR were close, and the USSR collaborated with Germany in a number of clandestine military programs that helped Germany get around some of the Versailles restrictions (military aircraft design and production, flight training, tank development and tactical training, etc). Also the USSR is a large country with poorly developed road and RR system. THey also loved building big things to show off Communist technology and educate the masses. I am working on a TL for Soviet airships in which the entire Soviet aitship program is run by the Communist Party and the NKVD, with quasi-military airships carrying airplanes used for propaganda, internal security, and high-speed troop transport between European Russia and the USSR's eastern hinterlands.

I just don't see either Britain or France staying very interested in airships much past the early 1930's, but there is another nation you haven't mentioned...Japan. Like the US, Japan could appreciate the value of long range aerial scouts for its fleet, and later value the use of such airships as offensive aircraft carriers. Given Japanese attitudes, they might not worry all that much about using hydrogen and survivability. I am also working on a TL concept for Japan as well. It would take a lot to plausibly make Japan a major airship-using nation, but it's not impossible.

[alphaboi867]

Eckner, are you planning on still having some kind of Pacific war between Japan and the US (& presumably the British)? True it's going to cause advances in plane development, but probally not as much in OTL, plus airships should already become the norm for long distance air travel by then. Is a hospital airship completely out of the question (even if it's impractical I can see the USN experimenting with the concept). It'll be interesting so see how one plays out with the USN having a fleet of airships in us. Japan's definately either going to try play catch with the US re airships, or try concentrating on planes.

As for the Soviets what's their airship progam going to look like? I can see putting them to military, scientific, and propoganda uses, but would they try running a passenger service? Luxury transports for the nomenklatura are a possiblity, but the Soviets will definatly play down the luxury aspect and restrict them to (nominally) official government travel. Then again the USSR was usually perfectly willing to let capitalist tourists visit on controlled itineraries in exchange for their decandant hard currency.

[Eckener]

@Zoomar:
Yes I still see the 'Hindenburg' as a viable ship name, since he was still President along with a war hero. Plus I still see Germany is staying more conservative, once the initial shock of the Nazi's wears off (and since the worst thing they did was shoot at the President and kill the Chancellor, as opposed to mass murdering 6+million jews along with all the other minorities and other atrocities they were responsible for OTL, i forsee the people swinging back center-right fairly quickly, though not as radically as with the Nazis. I have the 'monarchist party' in play at the moment, and am planning on them becoming in essence the conservative party of Germany, with Center Party being the moderates and the SPD being the left.

As for the names, if I used air navy, i didn't really mean too
But I could see air sailors being used, and I personally like the idea of a Naval airship corps, or just a naval air corps. I think it would better the chances of long term survival of the airship.
You mention the fact that surface and airship sailors could be switched out under US practice. I see this as being part of the US problem with airships when it comes to human error. That's why I'd rather it be a semi-separate entity, but with the ships still attached to the Atlantic and Pacific fleets.

And you're right in the fact that the US, Germany, Japan, and the USSR are the only countries to have longer-term ambitions with airships. I'll probably have britain's last to some extent but fade out, and France's be short lived.

@alphaboi:
Yes a Pacific war between the US/UK and Japan is very likely, and I'll probably have it occur at some point, within a few years of the outbreak of WWII for the US OTL.
As for the Soviet airship program, it'll be mainly military, exploratory, and propaganda centered, with the possibility of some government-related passenger uses.

Question for everyone reading:
Do you see a conflict with the Soviet Union an eventuality say maybe in the 50s or 60s (or earlier or later) between the USSR and the West? Or would it be more like the world just skips WWII and moves straight into a cold war scenario?

[Geekhis Khan]

On the "air navy", I agree with zoomar that a semi-independent "Airship Corps" is unlikely and would expect something as per his suggestion along the Submariner's path. I'd foresee an independence of mindset, however (like the subs) and a different culture from the "wet" navy (likely more futuristic/progressive/non-traditional). They will have different symbology with a distinct badge/"wings" as a coveted badge of membership.

On ranks, the ratings would probably be called simply "Airmen" (Amn-3 to Amn-1; 3rd to 1st class) and from there the Petty Officer ranks would split by specialty as on a ship (Engineering Techs (ET) for engines and helium, etc.) plus all the usual Yeomans and Bo's'un's Mates, etc.

Interestingly, they will continue most of the daily rituals and terminology from the wet navy with bosun's whistles, bells, "bulkheads", "scuttles", "messes", etc.



On Japan, a lot depends on what direction it takes. Have Weimar's butterflies migrated far enough to affect Japan? The POD is pre-Chinese invasion. I forget if it is pre-militarization or not. Forgive me as I forget whether you already mentioned this or not.

If Japan falls into the hands of the ultra-nationalists and invades China as per OTL some form of conflict is inevitable. Though as I foresee intact Weimar butterflying the European war I can't see Japan being dumb enough to take on the ABDA powers alone. At most I see a limited navy clash that never goes all-out war. Most likely a cold war with the US at worst. Maybe embargoes that force Japan to the table in China or a limited Franco-Japanese clash over FIC and the supplies to China from it. Perhaps a limited Russo-Japanese war over China/Mongolia/Manchuria.



On the USSR: ITTL no Nazi destabilization means Stalin faces the threat of getting dog-piled if he gets too aggressive. He might try things with Finland or Romania, though Poland threatens to bring France and Germany against him. Maybe a clash with Britain in central Asia. Most likely if anything a clash with Japan as mentioned above.

Stalin's aggressive, but opportunistic. More a crocodile than Hitler's rabid pitbull. Unless he thinks he can get away with easy spoils at a low risk/cost I doubt he tries anything.

[zoomar]

Eckener:

Oops, sorry about the Hindenburg name questions. I should remember things in your TL better than that. Plus, if I remember correctly, I also suggested that this Weimar republic should more conservative and possibly even monarchist.

Geekhis:

"Airman" might work work for ratings, but I still doubt the Navy would abandon the traditional terms for enlisted personnel. Question. What terms are used for enlisted personnel (gunners, etc) serving on naval aircraft in the real world? I don't really know.

As mentioned before, I have toyed around with a (fairly optimistic concept for the extensive use of military airships by a number of nations in the 1930-1950 period, including Japan and the USSR as well as the USA, which I also PM'd to Eckener. Since it could be fitted to the Eckener timeline, I am including it below. Some of the presumptions include legal and peaceful restructuring of Germany's post-versailles borders to some extent, no WW2, but perhaps a number of small regional conflicts, no accelerated development of nuclear power /weapons, and retarded development of gas turbine engines for aircraft (something I believe was esepecially accelerated in the UK and Germany in OTL because of WW2). There is a 1942-1944 Pacific War (referred to as the "Asian War" in this timeline (note, regarding US development, this is an entirely different timeline from the US Naval Airship TL I previously posted on this board. Also, excuse the format, because airship details had been put in tabular format which got mixed up):


Some thoughts about the military development of rigid airships in the Eckener “Plausible survival of the airship” timeline.

Since the original TL keeps evolving in response to various comments and is now also part of the President Eckener tieline, I am making no effort to tie directly into the original TL’s specifics, but I have attempted to make this conform to all or most of the basic premises:

- WW1 begins and ends as in OTL
- Postwar zeppelin development is curtailed in Germany as in OTL, but for a shorter time and is resurrected solely for commercial applications with more German government support and international financing and cross-fertilization than in OTL
- Britain’s program avoids the R100/R101 competition and results in viable passenger airships combining good traits of both approaches which also benefit from some Zeppelin operational expertise. Britain has no need for military airships, but in the late 1920’s sells technology to USSR and Japan for military applications
- US Program begins as a product of strong Goodyear-Zeppelin partnership – US becomes the dominant user of naval airships. Navy also helps fund and support the US civil airship program. Generally, the USA maintains an overall lead in the introduction and operation of sophisticated modern military airships.
- Soviet program focuses of large airships for long range transport activities, exploration, propaganda, and as experimental stand-off long range aerial bombers with hook on planes. Helium deposits are discovered the Caucasus giving USSR a potential local source of helium. Airships do not become part of any existing military service, but are operated directly by the Communist Party and operated by the NKVD for combined military, internal security, and commercial uses. Early designs draw heavily on British practice (basically R101 type ships with the problems worked out). Later, pirated German and US concepts added
- Japan becomes a strong proponent of the rigid airship as an offensive weapon, exploiting the aerial aircraft carrier concept as thoroughly as the USN, but within a radically different operational framework. Japanese designs blend British and Zeppelin practice. With the rise of Hitler and Japan’s membership in the anti-comintern pact, Germany sells the Japanese older commercial zeps for naval use to supplement indigenous designs.
- Unlike the President Eckener TL, I presumed Hitler would come to power as in our TL, but that he would be overthrown in 1938, as an immediate response to a Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia following collapse of Munich talks, Hitler is assassinated and the Nazi party is overthrown by an anti-nazi junta. Germany signs armistice with allies and restores integrity of Czechoslovakia. Under combined army/junker rule, Germany remains a conservative, nationalist, power but cancels most of the most offensive Nazi racial policies and adopts a much less bellicose foreign policy. Germany obtains some readjustments to Polish border peacefully. There is no European War in 1939, and eventually Germany joins an unofficial arrangement between Britain, France, Poland, and Italy to resist the USSR.
- In 1942 a relatively brief Pacific War (“Asian War” in this TL) breaks out between the US/UK and Japan. The USSR joins war as an ally of China which is also at war with Japan against the Japanese, this secondarily leads to Communist takeover of China in 1944.

The British Military Airship.

As mentioned, Britain did not introduce any military ships after the R-34 class. However, in 1929 the Royal Airship Works produced a number of design studies for large naval scouts at the behest of Australia and Indian Viceroyalty, both of whom saw some need for this type of craft in patrolling the Indian and Pacific oceans and in high speed long range transport. These were based on the “Improved R101 design” as follows. In 1930, Australia canceled its order and the ship designs were released for export:

"Improved R-101 Class"
8,300,000 cu ft. 810’ long, Hydrogen with Blaugas fuel. Never built for British service, but served as basis for a number of Soviet and Japanese ships. Space provided for onboard aircraft hanger capable of carrying 3 planes or troop transport (200 fully equipped men)


The Soviet Military Airship

In 1930, the Soviet Government ordered three “Improved R101 design” airships from the Royal Airship Works, the first to be built in Britain, the following two to be built in Odessa, where the Soviet Government decided to base its own airship industry. Specifications were identical to that described above. The first two, First International and October Revolution were built as long range high speed troop/paratroop transports and “Peoples’ Education Airships” for the NKVD. The third, Worker’s Soviet, was completed with an internal airplane hangar for 3 Polikarpov I-5 fighters. All three ships were complete by 1934. They were all withdrawn from service in 1942 and scrapped.

In 1933, the NKVD ordered a new, Soviet designed series of ships from the Odessa Airship Establishment. These were basically enlarged First Internationals, but borrowed a number of concepts from Zeppelin and US practice:

Name Volume Length Power plants Lifting gas Comments
Red Dawn 10,200,000 950’ 4 Maybach diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Completed 1935 as long range transport and heavy duty hauler and propaganda ship
Eastern Light 10,200,000 950’ 4 Maybach diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Completed 1935 as long range transport and heavy duty hauler and propaganda
Soviet Union 10,200,000 950’ 4 Maybach diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Completed 1936 as combination aircraft carrier (6 Polikarpov fighters) and transport to counter Japanese airship plans
Soviet Ukraine 10,900,000 1012’ 6 Maybach diesels in interior engine rooms following Goodyear-Zeppelin practice on ZRS-class of airships Helium, with internal Hydrogen cells Completed 1937. First Soviet ship inflated partially with helium, with 1/3 of lift provided by hydrogen cells within helium cells. Use of helium necessitated addition of bay to maintain same lift and capability, but allowed interior engine rooms with less drag.. Dedicated aircraft carrier, carrying seven I-15 type fighters. First Soviet ship based in Far East (Vladivostok) to counter Japanese ambitions

In 1937, a follow up design to Soviet Ukraine was ordered All were originally planned for inflation with helium, small quantities of which had been recently discovered in natural gas deposits in the Caucasus, but problems with Soviet helium extraction technology resulted in their eventual inflation with hydrogen. Also, because the loss of Soviet Revolution on its delivery flight and other changes in Soviet military priorities, only one other of the original class of six were completed, and this ship was withdrawn from military service shortly after the ourbreak of the 1942-44 Asian War..

Name Volume Length Power plants Lifting gas Comments
Soviet Revolution 11,800,000 1075’ 4 Maybach diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Planned as aircraft carrier for use in far east - ten I-15 fighters could be carried. Completed in 1938. Based at Vladivostok. Destroyed in hydrogen fire while en route to far east, Aviation fuel fire in airplane compartment determined cause of disaster. Up to 230 people were executed on Stalin’s orders for “sabotaging” the ship, including its two chief designers, S. Prokofiev and D. Shostakovich
Marat 11,800,00 1075’ 4 Maybach diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Completed in 1939. Based at Vladivostok. At outbreak of Asian War, was refitted as troop transport and used to ferry troops and material to Chinese front. Withdrawn from service in 1943.


The Japanese Military Airship.

Japan was a somewhat surprising, and relatively late, nation to consider the military potential of rigid airships. Because of the intense inter-service rivalry between the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Army, both services initiated airship programs in 1934, but only the navy’s saw fruition. The first Japanese airships were direct copies of the “Improved R-101” types offered for export by the British government. Subsequent ships incorporated a mixture of British, German, and US design concepts. Japan never considered the use of helium lifting gas for its ships. This was in part because the United States would never have provided helium to a prospective enemy state, but more importantly because the Japanese had a different attitude to airship survivability. From the beginning, even before the US Navy proved the concept, all Japanese naval airships were designed and built to carry aircraft with offensive capabilities. Japanese Navy doctrine envisaged that its airships would be used in high risk long range attacks on high-value military targets where the loss of the ships and crews were considered very likely. As the Asian War approached, the concept evolved into the use of its airships as expendable “first strike” weapons intended to deliver decisive blows at the start of hostilities with a stronger enemy (presumably the United States or Great Britain).

This doctrine presumed most or all of the airships would be lost, but that these losses would be more than compensated for by the destruction of high value military or political targets. Japanese airships carried more capable attack aircraft (and many more of them) than equivalent US ships. This was possible, not only because the Japanese used more buoyant hydrogen lifting gas, but because the ships carried only enough fuel and stores for one attack, and the embarked aircraft themselves were not compromised by the size of hangars and the need to return and land on the airships. To exemplify this, the standard hydrogen-filled Japanese Hi-10 class airship of 13,500,000 cubic feet was capable of carrying no fewer than 15 bombed-up B5N torpedo bombers or D3A dive bombers on staggered individual perches along the bottom of the hull, while the equivalent helium-filled USS Santa Cruz, designed for long distance, high endurance scouting and secondary ASW missions, shipped only 8 aircraft in two service hangars, most of them light scouts with limited offensive capability. The “surprise” Japanese airship attacks on Allied naval assets and facilities at Pearl Harbor, Manila, the Panama Canal, San Diego, Seattle, and Singapore that opened the Asian War exemplified this policy, as did the loss of all but two of the 12 ships committed to the operation.

Name Volume Length Powerplants Lifting Gas Comments
Asahi
Yamato 8,300,000 810 6 Mitsubishi (Maybach) diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Completed in 1935-1936. Slightly modified “Improved R-101” types. Ordered in Britain and built in British-designed fabricating hanger at Yokohama Naval Base. Operated by IJN crews as training ships, and employed as civil transports. Small hangar carried three onboard planes used to ferry mail.
Hi-1
Hi-2
Hi-3
Hi-4 8,800,000 825 6 Mitsubishi (Maybach) diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Completed in 1937-39. Slightly enlarged version of Asahi design. First standard IJN ships optimized for naval operation as scouts with secondary “special attack” role. Dispensed with hangar used in Asahi. 8 aircraft could be operated from individual trapezes along bottom keel. All four ships participated in attacks on Singapore in March 1942, all but Hi-3 were lost. Hi-3 subsequently employed in operations with IJN against British Naval forces in eastern Indian Ocean. Hi-3 destroyed by accidental hydrogen fire, January 1943.
Hi-5
10,500,000 950 4 Mitsubishi (Maybach) diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Completed in 1938. First Japanese designed airship. Based on contemporary German Vaterland commercial airliner design, optimized for naval use. Reverted to use of internal hangar (replacing passenger space in commercial design), limiting aircraft complement to 6 planes. Considered a disappointment by IJN and sold to Asahi Newspaper concern in 1940 for re-conversion back to civil use. !n 1942 used as fast troop transport during initial stages of Asian War. Destroyed by British carrier aircraft in late 1942 off Sumatra.
Hi-6
Hi-7
Hi-8
Hi-9 11,500,000 1050’ 4 Mitsubishi (Maybach) diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Ordered 1939 as enlarged versions of Hi-1 class ships. Work on Hi-6 and Hi-7 initiated in 1940, but cancelled to concentrate all work on even larger H-10 standard airships. None completed.
Hi-10
Hi-11
Hi-12
Hi-13
Hi-14
Hi-15
Hi-16
Hi-17
Hi-18
Hi-19
Hi-20
Hi-21
Hi-22
Hi-23
Hi-24 13,500,000 1100’ 5 Mitsubishi (Maybach) diesels in exterior power cars Hydrogen Standard IJN airship. Ordered in 1939 and developed in secret crash program as “special attackers” when Asian War with US and UK appeared inevitable. Entirely optimized for long-range, single mission, attack. Standard aircraft compliment 15 dive/torpedo bombers. Completed 1941-43. All but Hi-22, Hi-23, and Hi-24 completed in time for March 1942 special attacks opening Asian War. Only Hi-11 survived, and together with Hi-22, Hi-23, and Hi-24 converted to high speed transports, None survived war. Hi-11 and Hi-23 shot down by US carrier aircraft; Hi-22 and Hi-24 destroyed in aerial bombing attacks on home islands.

No Japanese airships survived the Asian War and virtually all Japanese airship fabricating facilities and hangers were destroyed by British and US air raids. After the March 1944 Revolution, the post-war Federal Republic of Japan and Formosa lost all interest maintaining an airship industry.

The US Military Airship

No doubt because of the presence of commercially extractable helium deposits in the American Southwest, the United States was by far the chief proponent and innovator in the use of rigid airships for military (chiefly naval) purposes. Properly operated, helium-filled airships have a significantly better chance for survival in combat zones than standard hydrogen-filled vessels. Also, because the US was fortunate to be separated from any significant potential adversaries by wide tracts of ocean, the operational areas for US airships included many vast areas in which they could fulfill important transport and ASW duties while being essentially immune from attack by modern aircraft on land or in the air. Through the Goodyear-Zeppelin partnership, the Americans could draw upon the latest proven zeppelin technology. Finally, the vast industrial capacity of the United States allowed it the luxury of experimenting with numerous new innovations in airship technology and operation during and after the Asian War, while the other airship-operating nations had to divert their more limited industrial capacity to other, more strategically essential, purposes.

As in Japan, inter-service rivalry between the Army and Navy in the late 1920’s led to parallel airship programs in both services. Prior to the perfection of the multi-engine long-range bomber, both services saw rigid airships as a way to project strategic power using their capacity to carry aircraft. However, the Army’s program was hamstrung from the start by the complete lack of interest the USAAC rank-and-file had in such craft. Although a number of design studies were undertaken by Goodyear-Zeppelin for large Army airships, none of these saw fruition. In 1932, the Army abandoned all interest in airships of any type, transferring those few facilities and non-rigid airships it possessed to the Navy.

Name Volume Length Powerplants Lifting gas Comments
ZR-1 USS Shenandoah 2,300,000 635’ Helium Based on World War German L-49 design. Lost in storm 1925
ZR-2 British R-38. Broke up in air before official US christening in 1923
ZR-3 USS Los Angeles German Lz-126. Operated from 1924-1939. Served as training airship for most of her career. Scrapped 1942
ZRS-4 USS Akron
ZRS-5 USS Macon
ZRS-6 USS Wichita
ZRS-7 USS Lincoln First class of aircraft carrying scout airships. Internal hangar capable of carrying 4-5 small scout fighters. This number later reduced to 3 when larger aircraft introduced. Akron and Macon completed 1933-1935. Wichita and Lincoln completed in 1937-1937 to slightly modified design. During Asian War, all four served with Pacific fleet for ASW and Search and Rescue missions. Wichita lost in heavy weather, 1942. Akron destroyed by Japanese submarine-launched attack planes in 1943.
ZRN-8 USS Landsdowne
ZRN-9 USS Maxfield Dedicated training airships ordered from and built by Zeppelin Company in Germany in 1937 Very similar in basic design to contemporary LZ-129 commercial airliner, with passenger spaces replaced by aircraft hangar. 3 aircraft typically carried internally, but exterior perches were eventually provided for an additional 3 planes. In 1941, Landsdowne renamed America and refitted as high-speed Presidential transport. Served in this role until 1958 when replaced by Boeing Model 606 airliner.
ZRCV-10 USS Santa Cruz
ZRCV-11 USS Sacramento
ZRCV-12 USS Phoenix
ZRCV-13 USS Memphis
ZRCV-14 USS Tallassee
ZRCV-15 USS New Haven First true “Fleet Airships”. Completed 1941-1942. Capable of carrying up to 8 scout or attack planes in two internal hangars. Although designed as fleet scouts with a secondary offensive strike capability, most were employed in ASW and convoy escort duties duties. Home based at Hilo NAS. Sacramento and Memphis lost to Japanese aircraft off Leyte, June 1944.
ZRCV-16
ZRCV-17
ZRCV-18
ZRCV-19 Additional Santa Cruz-class units. Ordered 1940 but cancelled in favor of the new ZRCV-20 class.
ZRCV-20 USS San Juan
ZRCV-21 USS Bismarck
ZRCV-22 USS Honolulu
ZRCV-23 USS Anchorage
ZRCV-24 USS Tampa Bay
ZRCV-25 USS Tulsa Ordered in 1940 and completed 1942-43. Largest US airships. Replaced internal hangar bay with tandem service perches for up to 13 aircraft. All six ships Initially planned to operate together as a high-speed, rapid reaction, strike force capable of providing equivalent offensive capacity to a single Hornet-class carrier when such ships were not available. In practice, by the time all 6 ZRCV-20 class ships were operational, the USN had more than enough fleet carriers for all theatres of operation in the Asian War. Consequently, these ships were relegated to ASW work and extremely long range strategic reconnaissance tasks. Bismarck, and Tulsa were lost to Japanese aircraft during the latter stages of the Asian War. In the aftermath of the war, Honolulu was based for several with the allied occupation forces on Okinawa. In this capacity, she participated in the airdrops of food to the Japanese population during the Red Hand Revolution and, in 1948, evacuated the Imperial family to Formosa when it appeared the Reds were getting the upper hand in the home islands. All surviving ships were retired during the depression of 1952-53. All were scrapped in 1955.

[Geekhis Khan]

Originally Posted by zoomar

"Airman" might work work for ratings, but I still doubt the Navy would abandon the traditional terms for enlisted personnel. Question. What terms are used for enlisted personnel (gunners, etc) serving on naval aircraft in the real world? I don't really know.

"Airmen" actually IS traditional for navy air service members. See below:

[From wiki and refers to the modern US Navy. Not sure what differences there were (if any) in the 30s]

• Those in the general deck and administrative community are Seamen. They wear White stripes on navy blue uniforms, and navy blue (black) stripes on white uniforms.[Note: includes ship gunners - GK]
• Hospital Corpsmen are Hospitalmen. They are the only rate in this community. They wear White stripes on navy blue uniforms, and navy blue stripes on white uniforms.
• Those in the engineering and hull community are called Firemen and wear red stripes on both navy blue and white uniforms.
• Those in the aviation community are called Airmen and wear green stripes on both navy blue and white uniforms. [Note: includes aircraft gunners - GK]
• Seabees are called Constructionmen and wear light blue stripes on both navy blue and white uniforms.

So for the Airship Service I'd assume any ratings involved in gondola deck, rigging, admin, or running the ship will be Airmen (will include all "Seamen" positions from the wet navy). Gunners will therefore be Airmen. Anyone involved in engines, electrical, water, and helium duties could either remain Firemen (as in the wet navy) or also be absorbed into the expanded Airmen rate (this happened to Machinist's Mates (MM), which became Aviation Machinist's Mates (AD) for flight engineer types).


NCO (Petty Officer) ranks will be titled by specialty as OTL. Again from Wiki:

"Petty Officers serve a dual role as both technical experts and as leaders. Unlike the sailors below them, there is no such thing as an "undesignated Petty Officer." Every petty officer has both a rank and rate (job, similar to an MOS or AFSC in other branches). The rank and rate combined are known collectively as a sailors rating. A petty officer's full title is a combination of the two. Thus, a Petty Officer Third Class who has the rate of Fire Control Technician is called a Fire Control Technician Third Class. The term petty officer is, then, only used in abstract, the general sense, when referring to a group of petty officers of different ratings, or when the petty officer's rate is unknown.


"Each rating has an official abbreviation, such as FT for Fire Control Technician, STS for Sonar Technician Submarines, or ET for Electronics Technician. When combined with the petty officer level, this gives the short-hand for the petty officer's rank, such as FT3 for Fire Control Technician Third Class. It is common practice to refer to the petty officer by this short hand in all but the most formal correspondence (such as printing and inscription on awards). Often, the petty officer is just referred to by the short hand designation, without using the surname. Thus FT3 Shearer would just be called FT3."



Here's links to the rates and their symbols:

"Seaman" rates: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/navy_legacy_hr.asp?id=262

"Fireman" rates: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/navy_legacy_hr.asp?id=263

"Airmen" rates: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/navy_legacy_hr.asp?id=264

EDIT: Here's a wiki list of links to the specific rates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...s_Navy_ratings


Note that OTL you had Boatswain's Mates (BM; Seamen) become Aviation Boatswain's Mates (AB; Airmen) [1] and Machinist's Mates (MM; Firemen) become Aviation Machinists Mates (AD; Airmen) when in air service jobs. I'm up in the air on whether all Firemen rates will become Airmen or not given the certain ship-like quality of the Airships. I'm leaning towards "yes, they will".

Ergo we'll have an enlarged Airmen rate category to encompass Seaman and possibly Fireman rates. I assume the standard rate symbols for such "Air-Seaman" and "Air-Firemen" will be given wings to become Airman rates, as with AB (Aviation Boatswain's Mate) rate. There may also be all-new rates for the specific Airship jobs: will Helium control technicians become a new "Lifting Gas Tech" (AL) rate, or will they fall under Av. Machinist's Mates?

Some rates will have an added sub-designator (a third letter) like the Submariners do (they use S, like STS for Sonar Tech, Subs), say "A" for "Airship": ET for Electrical Tech (ship), ETS for submarines, ETA for Airships.

1 - Note that OTL the AB rate is only for E-9. Since the larger airship crews will have the need for actual working Boatswain's Mates this will become a full independent rate rather than the effective honorary title it is OTL. Same for Aviation Structural Mechanic (AM).

[Eckener]

Okay, so here is the next update, in full

PART V: A NEW ERA

With the New Versaillies Treaty in place, and relations with France, Great Britain, and the United States beginning to improve. Germany began to slowly rearm, to be able to hopefully keep the Soviet Union at bay. In late 1935, Eckener visited Poland in the Graf Zeppelin to discuss the issue of Danzig and East Prussia. Though no agreement was made on that trip, relations were improved between the neighbors.
Internally, Germany was on the mend. The Autobahn project was well under way, and Deutschebahn already had highspeed rail service offered between Berlin and Hamburg, and Berlin and Frankfurt. Airship development was also increasing, now that the Zeppelin Company was recieiving funds from the German government and officially involved in a joint venture with the American company Goodyear. There were discussions of even bringing the two companies together formally, to better share assets and further the cause of airship development.
The one remaining issue for Eckener and the Germans in 1935 were the western territores of the Saar and Rheinland that Germany had lost after World War I. Again, Ecekener’s brilliant diplomacy would come into play.
- Liebermann, Dr. William. The Zeppelin President."Chapter 4: The New Versailles and the New Germany (1934-1936)” Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2003

The 1920s and the 1930s, especially after Hugo Eckener became president of Germany in 1932, where what allowed the airship’s full potential to be discovered. In Germany, Luftschiffbau Zeppelin rose in prominence, especially after the great success of the Graf Zeppelin. Germany would launch the LZ-128, the Bismarck in 1930, and in 1934 the launch of the world’s largest airship, the LZ-129 Hindenburg, captured the imagination of the world. In the United States, the government officially set up a national airship plan after the passage of the National Airship Act in 1926. Within two years, the American’s had established the United States Naval Airship Corps and a Naval Airship Training Center which had on staff several German airshipmen to train the American air sailors. The launch of the USS Akron and USS Lakehurst in 1929 and the USS New Orleans in 1930 marked the beginnings of what would eventually be the largest air-navy in history.
After Hugo Eckener became President of Germany in 1932, lighter-than-air development began to speed up around the world. Germany began to make deals with the Soviet Union dealing with airship technology, and in 1935 the Russians established the Soviet Airship Command, and began construction on the PR-1 Revolution, based on the German designs for the Graf Zeppelin. That first Soviet airship would launch the following year in 1936.
France and Britain were lesser players in the airship race. The British Airship Programme nearly floundered after the crash of the R101 in 1931, but since the loss of life was minimal, Lord Thompson, who himself survived the crash, demanded that the program continue. In 1932 a new craft was launched in Britain, the R102, based on a hybrid of the R100 and R101 that proved to be very successful. Britain would then establish a military airship program for scouting in 1934, and began regular flights to Canada the same year. France did not start a development program of its own until the end of the 1930s, but built airharbors in Paris and Marsialles in 1935 and 1936 respectivly, allowing American, German, and British airships to use the facilities. The first French airship, the FD-001 Liberté, would launch in 1939.
By the dawn of the 1940s, the airship was the only way to fly long distance. In America, airplane development focused domestic uses to link American cities, along with some military applications that were being looked into. Most experts at the beginning of the 40s agreed that the place for the airplane was for short distances, island hoping, and for military use as fighters and possibly as bombers.
- Anderson, Dr. Alexander. The Airship: A Century of Sailing the Skies. New York: Colombia University Press: 1989.

RIOTS IN RHEINELAND

Mainz, Rheineland, March 3- Rioting has erupted between the local German citizens of the town of Mainz and the occupying French and international troops stationed here. The fighting started after a local citizen raised the new German flag above his home and was ordered by the French troops to take it down. When he refused, the man was arrested, and the flag seized. What happened after that remains conjecture. Locals say that the man’s son attempted to grab the flag back from the officers, was pushed back, and then brutally shot by one of the other soldiers. French officials say that the young man ran at the soldiers with a knife and one of the soldiers fired instinctively.
Regardless of which side is actually correct, the whole Rheineland is now in an uproar, and there have been riots in several cities. There are some calls from the German government to invade the Rhieneland to restore order and take the territory back. At the moment, the French have not sent in any more troops, and most occupation forces have retreated to their garrisons.
So far, the Foreign Office has yet to way in, but there are some in His Majesty’s government that are saying that they fear this could turn into some sort of conflict depending on how the Germans and the French react.
-“Riots in Rheinland,” The Times (London), March 4, 1935

March 7, 1934- The cabinet and I have been discussing the issue of the Rheineland for several days now, ever since that poor boy was killed by the occupation soldiers. What can we do? If I order soldiers in to the region to pacify things and secure the safety our countrymen, I could spark off a war with France and her allies, which is the last thing any of us want.
Adenauer suggested that maybe myself and the Vogel should go the area on the Graf and meet with the French Prime Minister to discuss the matters, and meet with the locals there and convince them to stop rioting. Of all the ideas on the table, that seemed the best, so I called over to the French Embassy this afternoon and conveyed my message to the ambassador, asking him to send the request to Paris. I hope this works.
- From the personal diary of President Hugo Eckener “Personal Documents of President Eckener.” The Zeppelin Institute, Friedrichshafen.

PRESIDENT ECKENER GOES TO RHINELAND

BERLIN, MAR 20- President Eckener and Foreign Minister Vogel left today in route to the Rhineland to meet with the French Prime Minister Pierre Étienne Flandin in the town of Mainz, site of riots earlier this month after the murder of a young man by French soldier. The violence began to die down after it was first announced last week that Eckener would meet with Flandin aboard the Graf Zeppelin to discuss all the issues of the region.
Althought there has been no official word from the President or his staff, it is rumored that Eckener may attempt to convince France to return Rhineland to Germany, along with the Saar Region.
-“President Eckener goes to Rhineland,” Frankfurter Zeitung, March 21, 1935

March 23, 1935- Prime Minister Flandin has been very receptive to our ideas, and I think we may be close to an agreement. He’s also enjoyed flying aboard the Graf, this being his first time ever to fly in an airship. We’ve proposed a staged turn over of both Rhineland and the Saar over to Germany over the next 2 years. The British Foreign Minister, who is also at the meeting, has agreed. The western half of Rhineland will be turned over to Germany on December 31, 1935. Northern Rhineland, controlled by both the British and the Belgians, will be turned over on June 1, 1936. The rest of the Rhineland will be turned over to Germany on December 31, 1936. And then the Saar will be turned over to us in June of 1937.
The only thing they ask of us in return is that we drop all claims to Alsace-Lorraine, and that we send engineers to both France and England to help them with airship development. The British program is doing quite nice now, with their redeveloped R102 class airship. The French are apparently wanting to start up their own program, now that British and American ships have been sailing to Paris and Marseilles for the past several years.
- From the personal diary of President Hugo Eckener “Personal Documents of President Eckener.” The Zeppelin Institute, Friedrichshafen.

GERMANS TO GET RHINELAND AND SAAR RETURNED

MAINZ, RHINELAND, MARCH 25- The German, French, and British governments have reached a decision this week over the contentious Rhineland and Saar territories. Singed yesterday, on March 24, the Treaty of Mainz sets up a two year time-table for the gradual transfer of the land to the Germans.
When President Eckener announced the signing of the agreement on the radio, there was jubilant celebration here in Mainz, along with in Colonge and in numerous other towns and cities in the Rhineland and Saar territories. Those Germans living in Alsace-Lorraine are not so excited, however. The Treaty of Mainz states that Germany hereby drops all claims to those contested provinces currently in the hands of France.
In Berlin, many people cheered as the announcement went out on the radio, and there are discussions for a hero’s welcome for the President and Foreign Minister when they arrive back in the city later this week aboard the Graf Zeppelin.
-“Germans to get Rhineland and Saar Returned,” The New York Times, March 26, 1935

When Eckener and Vogel returned aboard the Graf Zeppelin after their success in Mainz, it was the beginning of the high point of Eckener’s Presidency. As the Rhineland was gradually reintegrated into the country, Germans began to look to the 1936 Berlin Olympics. President Eckener and the Berlin Olympic Committee wanted to use the games to show the world that the German democracy was stable and vibrant, and here to stay. They looked to Greece for a theme, building a modern Olympic stadium with a style that made the viewer think of the ancient times of Greece and Rome.
This was the birth of the modern Olympic torch relay. In July, German athletes began a relay in Olympia, Greece, lighting the Olympic torch and bringing it to Berlin. The final leg of the trip, once the torch was carried through the city, dramatically coming under the Brandenburg gate and past the Reichstag the day before the games, the runners took the flame to Templhof Airport, where it was loaded aboard the LZ-131 Brandenburg, Germany’s newest airship.
The day of the games, the LZ-129 and LZ-130 hovered over the Olympic Stadium as the crowds arrived and as the ceremony began. The opening ceremonies in Berlin were what started the tradition that we are now so familiar with, an amazing show of pageantry and national pride. The highlight of the show was when the LZ-131 flew over the stadium, Olympic flag flying proudly below the ship and Olympic Rings emblazoned on both sides, circiling the stadium several times before landing, at which point Olympic Runner Karl Ritter emerged from the ship, carrying the torch into the stadium and up to the cauldron, which he lit as the crowd cheered on.
To the whole world, the 1936 Olympic Games showed that Germany had recovered from the hard times that followed the world, and that they had fully embraced democracy and was ready to once again be a leader among nations. To this day, the Berlin Olympics remains the basis for all Olympic games, from the pageantry to the guest and athlete comfort, to the state of the art facilities that house the games themselves.
Germany excelled in the games, even though the star was American runner Jesse Owens, an African American who set many world records and was a crowd favorite. When he won his final gold medal in Berlin, President Eckener insisted on presenting the medal to him personally. That night, Eckener hosted a dinner in Owen’s honor in Brandenburg.
- Liebermann, Dr. William. The Zeppelin President."Chapter 5: The Berlin Olympics” Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2003

GOODYEAR AND ZEPPELIN ANNOUNCE MERGER

NEW YORK, OCT 19- Today, the chairmans of the Goodyear Airship Company and Luftschiffbau Zeppelin announced a formal merger into Zeppelin-Goodyear International. The now unified airship building company will be headquartered in New York, with offices also set in Frankfurt.
There will be a greater exchange of engineers from both German and the Untied States, helping further airship development. The company has two main production facilities, one in Akron, Ohio, and one at Friedrichshafen, along with a new facility that opened earlier this year in Dallas, Texas.
When asked about Goodyear’s contracts with the US Navy, the company said that those contracts would be handled exclusively by the facility in Dallas, and that the German facilities would not be building any military airships for the United States.
ZGI’s airships will be built for three buyers: the U.S. Navy, Pan American Airways, and the German airine DELAG.
-“Goodyear and Zeppelin Announce Merger,” The New York Times, October 20, 1936

MONARCHY BILL FAILS TO PASS

BERLIN, DEC 9- The Monarchist Party has failed to get their second attempt at restoring the Hohenzollern Monarchy to the thrown by legislative means. The Monarchists, which now have 113 seats in the Reichstag after last months election in which the SPD suffered further losses, shrinking to 142 seats and the Centre Party growing to 174 seats, have yet to push through their bill which would have called for the gradual return to a monarchy here in Germany
The bill would have established a regency council charged with finding a suitable candidate for the Imperial throne, along with establihsing a constitutional committee to draft a constitution for a modern Germany monarchy. Some diehard monarchists want to see the return to the system used before the end of the Great War, but most want to set up a system based on the British model, with more power resting in the legislature.
Monarchist Party officials said after the defeat in the parliament today that this would not be the last time they attempted to put forth this bill, that they would campaign and meet with Centre Party members to create more support for the bill and try again soon, maybe within a year.
-“Monarchy Bill Fails to Pass,” Frankfurter Zeitung, December 10, 1936

GERMANS CELEBRATE REUNIFICATION

BERLIN, JUNE 1- Germans young and old, rich and poor, celebrated the return of the Saar region into Germany today, as the last of the territories ceeded by Germany following the Great War has been returned to it’s original owner. In accordance with the 1935 Treaty of Mainz, France returned the Saar region back to German control at the strock of midnight, as fireworks exploded overhead and the German flag was raised over the territory, with a band playing “Deutschland uber Alles” in the background.
Presidnet Eckener was quoted as saying, “This is a great day for the German people, and for Europe. Today we show that diplomacy can work to resolve the disputes between the many nations of this continent, and that we can always work out our differences with civility and peace, and that we do not have to resort to violence.” President Eckener was in the region this morning at the official change of power ceremony.
-“Germans Celebrate Reunification,” The Times (London), June 1, 1934

FRIENDLY COMPETION

FRIEDRICHSHAFEN, FEB 15- Construction began today on the LZ-133 and LZ-134, the newest ships to be built by the German branch of Zeppelin-Goodyear International. These ships are to be the largest in the world, reaching nearly 1,400 feet in length. This, we are told, is in direct response to the highly succesful GZ-9 class airship built by Goodyear last year. The 1100 foot USS Eagle, which awed engineers in Germany when it arrived in Berlin last year carrying the US Olympic team, has created an urgency among German engineers to one-up their American collegues.
When asked about the competition within the company, ZGI officials in New York said that it was healthy, keeping the company at the edge of innocation in lighter-than-air technology.
-“Friendly Competion,” Popular Mechanics, February 20, 1937.

June 12, 1937- I went down to Friedrichshafen this week to see the progress on the LZ-133 and 134. I have to say that I am very excited. These new ships will be amazing. I also talked with some men from the American side of the new ZGI company, and they were telling me that with the recent completion of British routes to Australia, that PanAm was expecting that one could fly around the world via airship no later than mid 1938, when the newest PanAm ship will be ready to fly from Honolulu to Sydney. It’s all very exciting, my life long dream finally becoming a reality. If only I were more a part of it. But that is the price I must pay, I suppose. And in the end, it is worth it. The world is at peace, the airship will soon truly be King of the skies, and my homeland is no longer threatened by militant barbarism.
- From the personal diary of President Hugo Eckener “Personal Documents of President Eckener.” The Zeppelin Institute, Friedrichshafen.

[GreatScottMarty]

Eckener seems to be doing really well, when does he hit hard times?
great update

[alphaboi867]

Great update Eckener. Here's my synopsis of alternate version of an OTL film that might fit in with your timeline (your other timeline mentions a wave of airship films).

Non-Stop New York (1937), the first British "airship film". Directed by Robert Stevenson and staring John Loder and Anna Lee. Based on Ken Attiwil's bestselling novel Sky Steward, it is the story of a young Englishwoman, Jennie Carr (Lee), who witnesses a gang murder in New York. Fearing for her life she sails back to England, only to have the gang follow her and frame her for theft. Upon her release from gaol, Jennie learns that an innocent hobo has been convicted of the New York murder, and is desperately seeking the "mystery girl" who could save him from the electric chair. When Scotland Yard refuses to believe her story, she stows away on an flight back to New York; unbeknownst to her, the real murderer is aboard. As is Inspector Jim Grant (Loder), who has been sent to New York to check on Jennie's story.

The New York Times called it a well-staged and moderately entertaining Class B melodrama" featuring "a transatlantic airship as richly imaginative as a front-cover of Popular Science or a Buck Rogers space ship." Great liberties were taken with the British airships of the time. The fictional RMAS Queen Alexandra features passenger fittings far in excess of even those of the famed German line and such absurdly impractical features as private balconies, a winter garden at the top of the ship's frame, a swimming pool, and even a small aeroplane suspended beneath to ferry passengers to smaller ports without having to land.

-"Internet Cinema Database", retrieved 2010-01-15

Here's the real IMDB page for the film. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0029319/

[Eckener]

Love it! That's a really good piece.

As far as a lowpoint for Eckener...I'm thinking maybe him not siding with the monarchist, and have them push through the Monarchy Bill in a few years from where I'm at now. That and possibly declining health. Not sure yet though.

I have a question: what would be come of Israel ITTL? any thoughts on this?
I was thinking that in the Holy Land a non-radical Palestinian state is born that's more pro-western. (kinda like Turkey). The only thing about this that I'm not sure about would be Tel Aviv, which was a pretty good sized city by the PoD. Would the zionists still be able to establish a Jewish state in the holy land without the Nazis?

[GreatScottMarty]

Originally Posted by Eckener

Love it! That's a really good piece.

I have a question: what would be come of Israel ITTL? any thoughts on this?
I was thinking that in the Holy Land a non-radical Palestinian state is born that's more pro-western. (kinda like Turkey). The only thing about this that I'm not sure about would be Tel Aviv, which was a pretty good sized city by the PoD. Would the zionists still be able to establish a Jewish state in the holy land without the Nazis?

As for the zionist, if there is no WW2 they have no reason to demand a land of their own. yes Russian pogroms are pretty bad and depending upong what happens in Hungry, Romania, and USSR there may be a reason for an Israel. Something to keep in mind though. Jews were going to Israel anyway and they had a sizable presence already. I believe the last Ottoman census counted more Jews in Jerusalem (or possibly Palestine proper I can't remember) than Muslims. Also something to consider Jews served with distinction on both sides of WW1. While they were mostly assimilated that doesn't mean they couldn't have found g-d in the trenches. One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the modern middle east conflict is rooted in 1948 and the resulting policitization of the Arab-Israeli conflict first by the Cold War and then later by radical fundamentalism. I don't think we would see such a schism in the middle east that we see today. Remember that a lot of the military advisors in the Middle East after 1945 were ex-Wehrmacht or SS.
I just don't see a Jewish dominated Israel arising but possibly a an actual working hybrid state is possible. More likely the Jews continue coming to US or possibly staying put and making Eastern European culture ever more vibrant.

[Eckener]

Okay, here is the next installment.

PART VI: REPUBLIC VOTED OUT

1937 was the last year of Eckener’s “goodtimes”. Starting with the election of 1938, in which the Monarchists overwhelmingly took control of the Reichstag, going from 113 seats to 202. Adenauer remained the Chancellor, but Vogel and the other SDP members were no longer involved in the Government. When asked by a reporter in Berlin in October of 1938, Eckener stated that he supported the Republic, and was against returning the Hohenzollerns, or any other noble family, to the throne. After this, Eckener would no longer be able to get any usefull cooperation from the Reichstag, despite his good friendship with Adenauer. His power as President stagnated as the popularity and moral authority of Adenauer and the Monarchists grew.
On Decmeber 3, 1938, the Reichstag passed the “Restoration of Monarchy” Act, which set a one year time table for the dissolution of the Republic and the reestablishment of the German Empire. The 1939 presidential elections were cancelled, and a Regency Council was established, with Adenauer as it’s Chairman. A constitutional committee was also establihsed, with the aim of setting up a British-like constitutional monarchy system with a very limited monarch. The tentative coronation date was set for December 1, 1939. The Airship President’s days were now numbered.
-- Liebermann, Dr. William. The Zeppelin President."Chapter 6: The Restoration of Monarchy Act ” Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2003

GERMAN VOTERS BACK MONARCHY ACT

BERLIN, DEC 20- Germans have voted overwhelmingly in support of the “Restoration of Monarchy Act” that was passed earlier this month by the German Reichstag. This vote was required by the act before the government here in Berlin sets about to fulfill the act and restore the German Empire. Not all here in this country are happy about the vote, including sitting President Hugo Eckener, who stated, “It was my hope that the German people would reject this bill and back the Republic, but it appears that the will of the people is to have a return of the House of Hohenzollern. It is not that I dislike the monarchists, but I feel that Germany would be better served by a republic.”
Eckener isn’t the only one warry of the new act. Leaders throughout Europe have voiced their concearn. In Britain, the government has stated that “While we will continue to support the German government, and have no personal issue with the House of Hohenzollern (as they are cousins of the British Royal Family), we do hope that these events will not result in future conflict, and that the new government that is created will follow after President Eckener’s example and proceed with diplomacy when dealing with their neighbors.”
The French appear to be more fearful, with one official in Paris being quoted as saying, “It is the hope of the French people that the new Imperial government that is to rise in Germany will honor the Treaty of Mainz and not attempt to take back old disputed territories that were delt with in that agreement.” This statement is an obvious refference to Alsace-Lorraine, which Germany dropped all claims to in the treaty the official reffered to.
-“German Voters Back Monarchy Act,” The Times (London), Decemeber 21, 1938

December 25, 1938- This shall be my last Christmas as President of the German Republic. This shall be the last Christmas that Germany has a President. This shall be the last Christmas that Germany is a Republic.
It’s not that I’m agianst the monarchists, or don’t want to see the return of the Imperial Family to power. Some of the papers here in Berlin have even accused me of wanting to try and keep the power to myself and not give it over to another. This is not it at all. I simply feel that a republic is what is best for the German people. That in the long run, reverting back to having a monarchy, even a more limited monarchy, is a step in the wrong direction.
I suppose I could be wrong, of course. Adenauer has repeatedly pointed to the British as an example of a monarchy done right, as he says. That’s the example that the Consitutional Committee is using as they start their work. They meet for the first time next week, and I pray that God guides them and grants them the widsom to establish a good government. I also pray that the Regency Committee is successful in finding just the right person to be crowned as the new Emperor.
- From the personal diary of President Hugo Eckener “Personal Documents of President Eckener.” The Zeppelin Institute, Friedrichshafen.

HEIR APPARENT KILLED BY LEFTIST

KOLN, JAN 17- Crown Prince Wilhelm, son of the last German Emperor Wilhelm II and for many people the obvious choice as the person to be chosen by the Regency Council, was killed today in Koln by a Marxist. His Imperial Highness was in the city to meet with Monarchists leaders who had planned on supporting his candidacy to become the new German Emperor, when Heinrich Nollert, a former member of the RFKF, attacked the Crown Prince in his hotel suit. Nollert had gotten around the Prince’s security detail by pretending to be a member of the hotel staff.
Nollert is now in the custody of the Reichspolizi. RP officials have searched the man’s home, and found evidence to suggest that he had been planning this event for weeks. He also appears to have been planning a bomb attack on the Chancellor with other former RFKF members in Berlin. RP spokesman in Koln said that this information would be very helpful in preventing further attacks.
-“Heir Apparent Killed by Leftist,” Frankfurter Zeitung, January 18, 1938

My fellow Germans,
I come to you this evening via the radio to speak publicially about the horrible events of today. At 11:14 this morning, Crown Prince Wilhelm of the House of Hohenzollern, was killed in cold blood by a man once belonging to the RFKF. I am so grieved that this communist terrorist was able to snuff out the light of such an important leader, a man that could have very likely been the next Emperor of the Germans. I offer the sincere condolences of myself and my family to the Crown Prince’s family and friends, and offer them anything that I can to help them in this time of sorrow.
And now I make a promise to the German people. Many have criticized me of late for my stance on the recent “Restoration Act”, trying to paint me as someone who would stand in the way of the people’s decision. That is not the case ladies and gentlemen. My unwavering support is behind the will of the people of this country, no matter what that will may be. As such, I have issued orders to the Reichspolizei to render round-the-clock protection to all members of the former Imperial Family, along with anyone else being considered by the Regency Council. In addition, I have ordered the RP to hunt down all former members of the RFKF that might be involved in the plot to kill the Prince, or other related plots that have since been uncovered.
I am also declareing a state of public mourning for the next 2 months in honor of the life of Crown Prince Wilhelm. All flags will be lowered to half-staff around the country. And now, I ask that you all join me in a moment of silence in honor of His Imperial Highness.
……………………………………………
Thank you all, may God bless each of you and may he guide us through this hardship.
- Radio Address given from Berlin by President Eckener on January 17, 1939. Reichs Historiches Institue, Berlin.

President Eckener’s handling of the death of the Crown Prince won him great respect amongst the public, especially among those who had been very critical of his attitude regarding the Restoration of Monarchy Act. At the funeral, he gave a very moving speech in honor of the Prince and the Imperial Family. One of the most famous photos of Eckener was taken at the funeral of Crown Prince Wilehelm on January 25, 1939. It is of him embracing the Prince’s widow, as she weeps, mournful of the loss of her husband. This photograph was reprinted in newspapers around the country, and the world, and appeared in TIME magazine that year.
After the funeral, event moved quickly. On June 3, the Consitutional Committee submitted it’s draft consitution for review and approval by the Reichstag. The legislature passed the document on June 12. Then on August 1, the Regency Council made it’s big announcement. The new Emperor of Germany would be His Imperial Highness Prince Louis Ferdinand, the 22 year old son of the late Crown Prince Wilhelm. This surprised some, who expected the Coucnil to choose one of the Prince’s older brothers.
On November 30, 1939, President Eckener handed over power to Prince Louis Ferdinand in a cereomny at the Reichstag. During the ceremony, the red, black, and gold flag of the German Republic was lowered, and the old red, white, and black flag of the German Empire was raised above the Reichstag. The next day, in a glorious ceremony in the Berliner Dom, the Prince was crowned as Kaiser Louis Ferdinand I, Emperor of the Germans. The nation was jubilant and proud.
Eckener announced that he would retire from public life and return to Friedrichshafen, despite initial requsts from Adenauer to stay on as part of the Government. Eckener said that it was his time to return home to his airships, and see what his son and the others had been up to all this time. On December 20, Eckener boarded the Gtaf Zeppelin and returned to his home on the shores of Lake Constance.
- Liebermann, Dr. William. The Zeppelin President."Chapter 7: President No More ” Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2003

Part VII will deal with airship developments during these years more thoroughly, and then Part VIII will pick up where Part VI leaves off. I can tell you that I plan on having Eckener's retirement be short lived, being called back into service by the Emperor, and then serving as a negotiator at the peace talks that will come in the 1940s after the Pacific War (or whatever I end up calling it) between the US and Japan.

A couple of other things to think about and that I'd like your opinions on:
-What about Fascist Italy? What would go on there without a Nazi Germany?
-The Space Race....I see it being three ways, between the US, Germany, and the USSR, with Germany being the leader. I'd also see it that the competition between the US and Germany would be of a friendly nature, where as the competition between those to and the Soviet Union being more akin to the OTL Space Race. I'd probably also see that ITTL the Space Race not starting until the late 50s, with Germany launching the first satellite MAYBE by 1959.
-And down the road, what about computers? Or cell phones and other modern technology that we all enjoy? TV, console games, etc...

After I wrap up Germany up to about the 1950s (Eckener's death in 1953), things will be a little longer in coming, since I'm going to have to focus on a more global scope. Any input will be much appreciated as I'll be treading pretty deep water pretty quickly, as the Eckener's 7 1/2 year presidency really rearranges the rest of the 20th and 21st Centuries.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Eckener

...Any input will be much appreciated as I'll be treading pretty deep water pretty quickly, as the Eckener's 7 1/2 year presidency really rearranges the rest of the 20th and 21st Centuries.

Yep, you've pretty thoughly radically altered the political, technological, economic, and social development of the 20th century. For example nuclear and space technology owe alot to WWII. There isn't going to be a Manhatten Project or V-1 and V-2. My WAG is that this sets atomic weaponry development back at least a decade. Germany is probally in the best position scientifically (no exodus of Jewish scientists) to delelop an atomic bomb (though I don't know where they'd test it since all their territory is in Europe) or how if the German government will make it much of a priority. Probally most initial emphasis is placed on building atomic reactors instead of bombs. The space program might be similiarly delayed (ie no unmanned statelites before the mid to late 60s, the first manned flights and interplantery in the 70s & 80s. Maybe we don't even land on the Moon untill the 21st century. Germany (with no colonial empire to worry about) might wind up in a better economic position than Britain or France.

As for restablising the German monarchy; what does the new German constitution look like? Does the Kaiser essentially get all the powers of the Reichspräsident or is he made into a ceremonial figure like the Bundespräsident in OTL? After a decisive victory for monarchy in the plebiscite I can see groups like the Social-Democrats doing whatever they can to make sure he's as politcally impotent as possible. And what about the constitute monarchs of the German Empire? There were 4 kingdoms (the King of Prussia being the German Emperor), 6 grand duchies, 5 duchies, and 7 principalities; each with it's own monarch. Under the Weimer Republic these many of the smaller Staaten where merged to form 19 republican Länder. Are they reestablised in some form too; say as purely honorary titles (like the British peerage) with no actual politcal role in their former territories?

And I know you aren't going to like it, but eventually airplanes will replace airships. IMHO the '40s will be remembered as the Golden Age of airships. They've become an establised mode of transport for the rich (& the economy is doing better), one can fly around the world on thanks to PanAm and DELAG, and planes aren't yet a serious competitor (though it's on the horizon). I think the British will be the ones to start focusing on long-distance passenger planes as a replacement for their (inferior) airships.

By the '50s it's becoming clear that the airship's days are numbered what with new advances in pressurised aircraft, longer ranges, and civil night-flying that result in faster (& cheaper) air travel. Airships struggle, PanAm lose's it's monopoly on overseas flights (& either folds or comes to embrace new long-distance planes), DELAG either folds or merges with Lufthansa, and by the '60s airships have gone the way of the ocean liner in OTL (ITTL ocean liners also decline around the same time). But they never fully go away and by the '70s or '80s are revived for tourism and deliberately seek to invoke nostalgia (although they probally never become as common as cruise ships). Passenger jets probally enter the picture in the '70s.

Oh, and with a more stable Europe in 1938 and the several airships of it's own I can see the newly crowned King George VI and Queen Elizabeth chartering one of them to go on a grand tour of the Empire (ie the White Dominions + India). In OTL they only went to Canada (& US of course). You already have President Eckener doing state visits in the Graf; the British & Americans will probally start to do the same thing. Maybe it doesn't get as far as a dedicated royal air yacht (though somebody will draw up a plan for one).

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Eckener

...The new Emperor of Germany would be His Imperial Highness Prince Louis Ferdinand, the 22 year old son of the late Crown Prince Wilhelm. ...

Some small nitpicks. I looked it up online and Prince Louis Ferdinand was 32 in 1939, not 22. Also is Wilhelm II still alive when the monarch is restored (in OTL he died in 1941)? BTW the title was "German Emperor/Deutsche Kaiser" not "Emperor of Germany/Kaiser von Deutschland" because of the unique federal nature of the German Empire.

[C.Cain]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Germany (with no colonial empire to worry about) might wind up in a better economic position than Britain or France.

Might wind up in a better economic position? With this set up German economic hegemony in Europe is almost inevitable.

Weimar Germany was also quite friendly with the Soviets. I can see them (the Germans) having a 'friendly' space race with the Soviets akin to a 'friendly' space race with the Americans.

[Eckener]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

Yep, you've pretty thoughly radically altered the political, technological, economic, and social development of the 20th century. For example nuclear and space technology owe alot to WWII. There isn't going to be a Manhatten Project or V-1 and V-2. My WAG is that this sets atomic weaponry development back at least a decade. Germany is probally in the best position scientifically (no exodus of Jewish scientists) to delelop an atomic bomb (though I don't know where they'd test it since all their territory is in Europe) or how if the German government will make it much of a priority. Probally most initial emphasis is placed on building atomic reactors instead of bombs. The space program might be similiarly delayed (ie no unmanned statelites before the mid to late 60s, the first manned flights and interplantery in the 70s & 80s. Maybe we don't even land on the Moon untill the 21st century. Germany (with no colonial empire to worry about) might wind up in a better economic position than Britain or France.

Yeah that's pretty much my thought, no satellites until probably the 60s, no manned flights until the 70s-80s, with a man on the moon probably in the late 80s early 90s...this will set back things like GPS and other communications systems in space (no satellite TV, we'll all be stuck with cable :P lol)

As for restablising the German monarchy; what does the new German constitution look like? Does the Kaiser essentially get all the powers of the Reichspräsident or is he made into a ceremonial figure like the Bundespräsident in OTL? After a decisive victory for monarchy in the plebiscite I can see groups like the Social-Democrats doing whatever they can to make sure he's as politcally impotent as possible. And what about the constitute monarchs of the German Empire? There were 4 kingdoms (the King of Prussia being the German Emperor), 6 grand duchies, 5 duchies, and 7 principalities; each with it's own monarch. Under the Weimer Republic these many of the smaller Staaten where merged to form 19 republican Länder. Are they reestablised in some form too; say as purely honorary titles (like the British peerage) with no actual politcal role in their former territories?

The new Kaiser would be more like the Bundesprasident in terms of actual legal power. The main governing power will be with the Chancellor and the Reichstag. Louis Ferdinand will have more power than the BP, but not as much as the RP, and definitly not as much as Wilhelm II.
I also like the idea of reestablishing the Staaten.

And I know you aren't going to like it, but eventually airplanes will replace airships. IMHO the '40s will be remembered as the Golden Age of airships. They've become an establised mode of transport for the rich (& the economy is doing better), one can fly around the world on thanks to PanAm and DELAG, and planes aren't yet a serious competitor (though it's on the horizon). I think the British will be the ones to start focusing on long-distance passenger planes as a replacement for their (inferior) airships.

By the '50s it's becoming clear that the airship's days are numbered what with new advances in pressurised aircraft, longer ranges, and civil night-flying that result in faster (& cheaper) air travel. Airships struggle, PanAm lose's it's monopoly on overseas flights (& either folds or comes to embrace new long-distance planes), DELAG either folds or merges with Lufthansa, and by the '60s airships have gone the way of the ocean liner in OTL (ITTL ocean liners also decline around the same time). But they never fully go away and by the '70s or '80s are revived for tourism and deliberately seek to invoke nostalgia (although they probally never become as common as cruise ships). Passenger jets probally enter the picture in the '70s.

Oh, and with a more stable Europe in 1938 and the several airships of it's own I can see the newly crowned King George VI and Queen Elizabeth chartering one of them to go on a grand tour of the Empire (ie the White Dominions + India). In OTL they only went to Canada (& US of course). You already have President Eckener doing state visits in the Graf; the British & Americans will probally start to do the same thing. Maybe it doesn't get as far as a dedicated royal air yacht (though somebody will draw up a plan for one).

I've been planning on this. But without WWII, the giant rigid airship wont ever go the way of the Dodo either. I'd see PanAm diversifying with airplanes into the late 50s, early 60s. Not sure about DELAG. Probably merging with Lufthansa (or DELAG diversifying into airplanes as well with a name change).
Regular airship service I see continuing into the 1960s, maybe the 1970s. I also think that a few routes would be kept in service, for old times sake if nothing else. Then in the 80s or 90s, a reeamergance of the airship as a 'cruise ship'.
And I love the idea of the 1938 tour by George VI and Queen Elizabeth on the airship.



As for your 'nitpicks', thanks. I goofed on my math on LF's age. And as for the title, I'll fix that.

[trekchu]

Originally Posted by Eckener

I've been planning on this. But without WWII, the giant rigid airship wont ever go the way of the Dodo either. I'd see PanAm diversifying with airplanes into the late 50s, early 60s. Not sure about DELAG. Probably merging with Lufthansa (or DELAG diversifying into airplanes as well with a name change).
Regular airship service I see continuing into the 1960s, maybe the 1970s. I also think that a few routes would be kept in service, for old times sake if nothing else. Then in the 80s or 90s, a reeamergance of the airship as a 'cruise ship'.
And I love the idea of the 1938 tour by George VI and Queen Elizabeth on the airship.

I call Zeppelins with Turbo-jets!

[Jotun]

Considering OTL's plans on re-developing airships as (manned or unmanned) command and control as well as observation platforms due to their vastly greater endurance compared to planes, I think this concept could be developed much earlier in your TL. Think of AWACS, just slower and much, much bigger.

There is always the problem of protecting one of these whales of the air but I am pretty sure there are ways.

Concerning the "no WW2" comments...wasn't there a hint about the Western Allies (including Germany) facing off against the Soviet Union at some time in the future? I mean, I can live without an alt-great slaughter. But I am really intrigued about how you are going to make ends meet.

Great TL, btw. I always like timelines where Germany doesn't get screwed over (deservedly or undeservedly). Whenever I think about the potential of Germany to achieve good things in the world and for the world that was pissed away in the two world wars, I get angry and frustrated...

[Eckener]

I too like TLs where Germany doesn't get screwed over in one way or another.

As far as a war with the Soviets....I haven't decided for sure yet, but I'm thinking about a possible war over Poland...maybe the soviets back some commie revolution in poland, and the WAllies come to the aid of the anti-communists in Poland.

This still wouldn't be as big as WWII though. I really want to avoid having that big of a conflict. Just a series of smaller wars over the decades.

[alphaboi867]

Does Austria stay independent or does it unite with Germany? Oh and for added fun with the German-Soviet relationship if Prince Louis Ferdinand marries the same woman as in OTL (he married in 1938, before you have him coming to the throne) his wife will be Grand Duchess Kira Kirillovna of Russia. Her late father, Grand Duke Cyril Vladimirovich of Russia was the pretender to the Russian thone after Grand Duke Michael was executed. He died in 1938, and his son succeeded him as pretender. So the German Emperor is going to be the titular Tsar of all Russia's brother-in-law. Granted the imperial couple's going to have very limited (if any) influence on foreign policy, but that's going to lead to some very frosty and akward diplomatic events. Maybe a minor international incident or too.