Camelot Revisited: A Timeline

November 22nd, 1963 was a day of loss for the nation. We lost our innocence. We lost our young, vibrant president who promised so much. And we felt a deep sense of loss not for the reason of some past nostalgia, but a sense that the future had been lost. What if that had never happened?

A Sound of Thunder: President Kennedy's Trip to Dallas
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November 22nd, 1963 - 11:40 CST

"We're heading into nut country"-President Kennedy to an aide before the trip to Dallas

As President John Fitzgerald Kennedy -accompanied by Ms. Jacqueline Kennedy and the presidential entourage- left Air Force One on that clear sky day in November of 1963, he was met with throngs of supporters expressing their excitement at the arrival of the President. President Kennedy represented youth and vibrance, and the dreams and possibilities of a future generation that would inherit the nation and the world in this decade and those to come. For this moment, all seemed right. But, there existed a darker side to this journey which would soon become evident.

Kennedy's to Dallas was one of simple goals; to gain support for reelection in 1964 and to heel rifts in the Texas Democratic party. He would travel through Dealey plaza at roughly 12:25 PM, before arriving at the Dallas Business and Trade Mart to deliver a speech and share a steak luncheon with Dallas business, political, and religious leaders and guests.

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Dallas, like much of the South, did not like John Kennedy. By 1963, the city had become a Republican stronghold, giving Nixon 62 percent of their vote in 1960. The denizens of the metropolis, a majority of them white collar wage earners, could care less for the President's New Frontier, and looked with revulsion at a planned Civil rights bill and desegregation. In the state as a whole, President Kennedy maintained roughly a 50 percent approval rating; far lower than the near 60 percent he enjoyed in the nation as a whole.

To the many, he was a "damned Yankee"; a Liberal too soft on Communism and too unresponsive to Soviet words of aggression; an anti-Christian Papist; a border-line Socialist; a "Communist patsy". Newspapers and organizations foamed at the mouth over the President, his family, his wealth, and his ideology with a visceral and seething hate. And resentment at Washington telling the south how to run it's business and how to deal with their races seethed through the masses.

Classrooms booed the President's name, 'KO Kennedy' bumper stickers lined Dallas cars, and a handbill accusing the President of treason had been handed out on November 21st. Speakers from the North, such as Adlai Stevenson, had been assaulted by city patrons not much earlier, and even Texas native Lyndon Johnson had been spat at by two housewives some time before. When President Kennedy called Dallas 'nut country', it seemed it was a duly deserved title for the times, and showed that President Kennedy was fully aware of what was happening and could happen. But, for the many warnings he had received not to go, he had decided to make the trip.


November 22nd, 1963
Nearing 12:30 PM, CST

"Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you"-Nellie Connally to President Kennedy as the motorcade rounded into Dealey Plaza


12:29 PM, CST

As the President's limousine turned into Dealey plaza, the President (accompanied by his wife, as well as Texas Governor John Connally and wife Nellie Connally) was greeted with smiling faces which lined both sides of the street. The hostility of the city had been washed away with the crowd which had come to support him as he made his way along the Dallas streets. The President waved and gave a boyish smile as he looked out at the people who had come to greet him.

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12:30 PM, CST

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As the motorcade passed the Texas Depository building, the peace of the day was shattered. A sound cracked the air, exploding somewhere in the curb along the street. The crowd that surrounded the motorcade brushed it off as a firecracker or exhaust backfire from the presidential limousine. Confusion filtered into the air as President Kennedy and Governor Connally turned to their right. Connally knew what the noise for what it was, saying "Oh, no, no, no," as he attempted to turn further right to look back at the President.

A second sound broke the calm. A projectile ripped through the President's upper back, before exiting through his throat and striking into Governor Connally. The bullet exited from under the Governor's right nipple, hitting him in the wrist before traveling toward his left thigh. Both men exhibited signs of pain, President Kennedy clenching his fists in front of him and leaning toward Ms. Kennedy, who held her arm around him in concern. Governor Connally screamed "My God, they are going to kill us all!". Ms. Connally quickly pulled her husband onto her lap. Turning to driver Bill Greer, Roy Kellermann shouted "Let's get out of line, we've been hit!".
The assassin, firmly fixed on President Kennedy, pulled his trigger a third time. The bullet clunk against the trunk as the limousine sped off under the overpass.
 
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Thank you for recognizing my glory.:D
We have to get through the assassination stuff and all that (albeit, this assassination was obviously failed and the degree of deviation will start to collect up over the coarse of the events to follow). Then we can move onto more political basics, cultural events and so forth.
 
By The Gods...It's Finally Here:D, wow Im really glad to see you finally leaving the launchpad with this timeline! If Jack has incurred a wound in the throat it's going to take him a serious amount of time to recover. The bullet is probably go to cause him serious damage to his already screwed up Back, and force more dependence on steriods and pain killers which will worsen his already shot health(I honestly don't think hell survive a second term). But for now, I can definatley see the 35th President using the attempt on his life as fuel to get the Civil Rights bill through Congress(Which I believe it shall). Then the ALT 1964!!! cant wait to see what happens next...Keep it comming Nort!!!:D
 
Keep it coming, particularly on 'Nam and CR. While LBJ would not be dumped, JFK did discuss transferring Bobby out of Justice on RFK's wishes. Perhaps a slide over to Asst. SoS for Latin America? ;)
 
Emperor Norton, if you need any help on anything to do with Ted Kennedy, let me know... and of course... I'm totally shocked you finally started this! I'm glad you finally have. Is this the first JFK Lives TL on the site?
 
By The Gods...It's Finally Here:D, wow Im really glad to see you finally leaving the launchpad with this timeline! If Jack has incurred a wound in the throat it's going to take him a serious amount of time to recover. The bullet is probably go to cause him serious damage to his already screwed up Back, and force more dependence on steriods and pain killers which will worsen his already shot health(I honestly don't think hell survive a second term). But for now, I can definatley see the 35th President using the attempt on his life as fuel to get the Civil Rights bill through Congress(Which I believe it shall). Then the ALT 1964!!! cant wait to see what happens next...Keep it comming Nort!!!:D
I'm not sure how much I'll make of the back pain from the bullet. I may throw in some worry about paralysis, some recovery time, and LBJ getting a time to shine while he runs the country for a few weeks while Jack recovers, but I don't think I'll multiply the back pain. As his back pain was in his lower back, I think I could get away with brushing of increasing the trauma after healing up.

Concerning 1964...think about what derailed Nixon and you may have a hint at what I'm up to.;)

Keep it coming, particularly on 'Nam and CR. While LBJ would not be dumped, JFK did discuss transferring Bobby out of Justice on RFK's wishes. Perhaps a slide over to Asst. SoS for Latin America? ;)
'Nam in particular is what kept my mind buzzing since Summer started, ended, and up to now. I have a direction I'd like to go, but I've been a bit indecisive about where I'd go with the Southeast Asia issue from there.

If you could contribute some RFK help, that'd be nice.:D

Emperor Norton, if you need any help on anything to do with Ted Kennedy, let me know...
Thank you. I'm currently unsure of the totality of what I'll do with Teddy, but there are somethings I may do. Albeit, I don't wanna tip my hat.

and of course... I'm totally shocked you finally started this! I'm glad you finally have. Is this the first JFK Lives TL on the site?
Thank you. I kinda had to start this since I felt I had to do it on November 22nd, and I wasn't gonna wait another year for that date. Whether it's the first JFK Lives one, I don't know, but I haven't seen any others. And even if they are, I'll avoid them because I don't want them to pollute my concepts.

Yes, the first and hopefully only one. I'm keeping a look out for RFK, Nixon, and Reagan as usual.
No comment, but I was planning to rip off something you did for a DBWI once.;)

Excellent start:)
Looking foward to reading this timeline.
Thank you.
 
I'll be happy to help with all matters RFK. I think my DBWI involved Nixon assassinated in 1972 and Bobby wiping the floor with Agnew. Though I could be wrong. :p "That ruthless bastard wanted to bring charges against my mother."
 
What about the Reynolds and Baker investigations surrounding LBJ?Apparently no criminal evidence could be found IOTL, but that would be an excellent opportunity to formalize the fraternal bond... ;) FYI, there is no prohibition against a Vice President holding a Cabinet portfolio. Sam Ervin will complain of "parliamentarism", since that would create a true DPM/Deputy Leader with powers exceeding Mandelson's...
 
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I'll be happy to help with all matters RFK. I think my DBWI involved Nixon assassinated in 1972 and Bobby wiping the floor with Agnew. Though I could be wrong. :p "That ruthless bastard wanted to bring charges against my mother."
Different DBWI, but I'm not saying which.;)

It begins!

I'm looking forward to this, very much sir. Keep it up.
Thank you.

TNF: "It" (Clintonian) began sometime in the Thirties. :p
Wuh? Depression era Bubba Clinton?

What about the Reynolds and Baker investigations surrounding LBJ?Apparently no criminal evidence could be found IOTL, but that would be an excellent opportunity to formalize the fraternal bond... ;)FYI, there is no prohibition against a Vice President holding a Cabinet portfolio. Sam Ervin will complain of "parliamentarism", since that would create a true DPM/Deputy Leader with powers exceeding Mandelson's...
Hmm. I don't wanna destroy LBJ (at least not yet). How should I handle that investigation (keep in mind, I don't know much about it)?
 
Norton

An excellent beginning for what hopefully shall be an excellent timeline. Your prose is superb and makes reading the timeline an even better experience. Keep up the great work :). Any ideas as to how the United States would be affected culturally if Kennedy was not assassinated? You have a lot of potential paths with that one.
 
HOLY CRAP ITS HERE I"M IN FOR THE RIDE
Thank you. Hopefully this doesn't suck once we get past story-post one.:D

Norton

An excellent beginning for what hopefully shall be an excellent timeline. Your prose is superb and makes reading the timeline an even better experience. Keep up the great work :). Any ideas as to how the United States would be affected culturally if Kennedy was not assassinated? You have a lot of potential paths with that one.
Thank you.

I have to go to school tomorrow so I'm really tired right now, but bear with me while I try to write this late (and screw it; it's a one or two day week anyway). I'm thinking that, logistically, culture would not have to deviate from how it was in the OTL too much overall -at least on superficialities- but that there will be some differences, and we can (well, I can) create some deviations we can play we here for the heck of it. If JFK doesn't die, you aren't going to see the same disillusion, which has it's hand in affecting a lot of stuff. Questioning the establishment may easily remain, but not the hatred of the man and all that more visceral stuff I suppose. Similarly, rather than putting their energies into rebellious things, the youth may easily follow a more New Frontier path of civil service, albeit I see no reason that the counterculture wouldn't come into being (after all, the Beetniks and roadsters and all those guys back a decade before weren't a reaction to any war or heavily disillusion), and I see no reason why they couldn't start wearing long hair and the fashions of the OTL day couldn't pop up and that sorta thing.

If you're asking me whether there'll be a Sonny and Cher show or the Beatles splitting up in 1964 or things like that, it'll depend on just random moods I suppose. And (dealing with this and the first paragraph) deviations in the timeline will build up over time so Billy Joel may not pop up on the scene and be a history teacher or things like that, so the longer we go, the heavier a set of deviations and alterations you could see. I'm not sure how that'll play out, though.

Of course, you guys are free to throw in your two cents here. I also wanna deal with American culture throughout this thread as well, so discussion helps. Know, however, that that'll only come following the time when we're done with this assassination stuff (I have to deal with Oswald and this in maybe two or three entries), the remainder of term one and the election of 1964, and at least the early part of JFK term two.
 
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You might see some *control issues* between the Alpha Golf and the Veep. LBJ would be the one to chair Cabinet of course, but it would be interesting. Of course, skipping them is also a possibility as per OTL.
 
Civil Rights: I’d like to think that with surviving his assassination attempt, while still getting shot would give him enough of a martyrdom effect to get the Civil Rights Act out of Committee and onto the floor. It probably passes on similar margins as did OTL. However I’m more concerned about the Urban Riots of the mid-to-late 60’s and the rise of the Black Nationalist movement. We all know that the Kennedy’s weren’t afraid to use the FBI and COINTELPRO to spy on OTL Civil Rights leaders in the early ‘60’s and I see no reason that would be stopped if JFK had lived. However, I think JFK was far to much of a pragmatist to try to appease the Nationalist groups. He may have to show some testes and lay the hammer down in the riots, which of course will be seen as a mixed message to many voters.

Great Society: Probably about the same as IOTL

Vietnam: The amount of advisors sent to Vietnam will probably increase before a dramatic troop withdrawal. I’m not an expert on the war, so I can’t tell you how different strategies under different Generals might have worked. But I do think US military involvement especially if it seems that the Communists are winning war towards the end of Kennedy’s 2nd term, could be The Issue of 1968 Presidential Election.

Cuba: Now a lot of the conspiracy theorists think that the island was the reason why Kennedy was assassinated in the first place. There are reports that Kennedy may have given the green light an operation to overthrow Castro by one of his generals(I can’t for the life for me think of his name) that was an Kennedy Ally. Then the Kennedy Administration would have backed them up

The Kennedy brothers: Here I think is the fun part…assuming that JFK wins and survives a second term, I think the careers of the Kennedy Brothers would have been radically altered. First up with Bobby, I don’t see him actively going into politics without his brother’s assassination. The entire makeup of Bobby Kennedy seemed to change, as he was able to feel the plight of the poor, Blacks, Migrant workers and empathize with their pain. Although I feel as if he will still be the leading member of Civil Rights out of the entire Kennedy administration, I think he’s habit of making really nasty enemies would snuff out any chances for him to actively go into politcs(which I don’t think he ever really did before Jack’s death). I could definatley see him being appointed to the Supreme Court(or at the least teaching at Harvard Law) in the ‘70’s under a Democratic Administration for his revolutionary change of the office of Attorney General. I think Teddy is the one, who really had the future in politics and as Senator during a JFK led 1960’s he would be one of the most valiant voices in support of the President. He could both serve a term or two in the Senate and decide to pick up some executive experience to go win the Governor’s house. But since Teddy was still so relatively young, I think he remains a viable candidate to at the most 1992(He’d be 60 which I think the avg age people want their presidents to be is around 50).

Counterculture: I think things could really get kinda fun here…Like you said earlier in the thread Norton, which the disillusionment with the Baby Boomers really started on 11/22/1963. LBJ after that day, became the embodiment of what we call the man…An old White Southerner, the ultimate political insider constantly wheeling and dealing things behind the scenes. With Kennedy still in office, I think the Peace Corps is going to explode as a way for all those spoiled kids to rebel against their parents Military-industrial complex. They could still take drugs, grow out their hair, and listen to placid forms of Rock and Roll while helping third world nations. Since I think escalation in either Cuba or Vietnam was inevitable at the time of JFK’s assassination, albeit It might not happen until after JFK’s term ends in ’69(I’m inclined to think a Republican of some stripe will succeed him either Barry or Rocky).

The 1964 Election: Here is where I think things really get interesting, I think most poll numbers especially in the South at the time of the assassination had Goldwater ahead of tied. I think most within the administration thought it was probably going to be Goldwater, but it was definitely no where ordained that the nod was his for the taking. If the primaries go essentially the same as IOTL but Rocky pulls out a narrow win in California the fight goes on to the convention. So he might get the nomination, but conservatives will be very much against Rockefeller after such a divisive primary. I personally like to think that Rocky had the looks, the financial resources and the support to challenge and beat the Kennedy machine. But in 1964 he has two problems; One it’s going to be really hard for Rocky to outhawk JFK on Defense issues after the Cuban Missile Crisis and Outliberal him on Domestic issues with the passage of the Civil Rights Act). He also has the infamous Happy problem, which is primarily the reason why Rocky never was able to get his hands on the nomination after 1962. But I do think it would be interesting to see that under attacks against Rocky’s philandering, the GOP campaign does enough sneaking to release JFK’s own skeletons about his womanizing, health, and unlawful wiretaps.

So in contrast, if Barry Goldwater gets the nomination in ’64 as to be expected…I think it would have actually been a very civil and exciting campaign. Barry would have to pick a more visible Northeaster moderate…So maybe Senator Margaret Chase Smith of Maine, Governor William P. Scranton of Pennsylvania, Senator Prescott Bush of Connecticut etc. Kennedy and Goldwater were actually really good friends IOTL, and had already worked out a rumored plan for 10 town hall style debates between each other(which if it happens will probably keep the race really close). JFK due to his popularity still beats Goldwater but probably something along the lines of a 350 to 200 electoral vote ratio. This sets up my political hero Rocky, to run on a Law and Order Campaign for ’68!!! What are you going to do about Nixon btw(Im a big proponent of a death for a death scenario in timelines lol, maybe have him come down with a bad case of phlebitis)

Can’t wait to see where you take this timeline…Keep it comming!!!:D
 
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