Henry VIII & Catherine of Aragon

[el t]

Catherine gives birth to Mary but dies shortly afterwards. Henry is now free to re-marry, without the previous church problems. Does this keep England essentially Catholic for the duration of his reign and even of his successors?

[Desmond Hume]

I would say yes, but with reservations. Henry would likely still be obsessed with producing a male heir after he remarries, so the King's Great Matter could always resurface with another wife (esp. since the reproductive problems were probably on Henry's end).

However, Henry was actually a pretty staunch defender of Rome until it became inconvenient for him (he got that Defensor Fidei title from the Pope, after all). If he decided to stick with Rome, I've always suspected he'd run a pretty brutal Inquisition in England--that just seems to go with his character. He might keep England officially Catholic, but Protestant ideas would definitely seep in and probably gain some traction among various segments of the population. England had a pretty strong native tradition of heresy against Catholicism with Lollardy, so I imagine there'd still be pretty serious religious conflict later in the sixteenth century but with the positions reversed from the OTL Elizabethan age: a Catholic monarchy vs. a Protestant faction among the nobility and people.

[MerryPrankster]

About reproductive issues, I remember reading one theory that Catherine of Aragon was always fasting for religious purposes, even while pregnant, and that might have caused her miscarriages.

However, the females all have X chromosomes--it's the male who supplies the X or Y. The preponderance of daughters is Henry's fault.

[kellineil]

Originally Posted by Desmond Hume

However, Henry was actually a pretty staunch defender of Rome until it became inconvenient for him (he got that Defensor Fidei title from the Pope, after all). If he decided to stick with Rome, I've always suspected he'd run a pretty brutal Inquisition in England--that just seems to go with his character. He might keep England officially Catholic, but Protestant ideas would definitely seep in and probably gain some traction among various segments of the population. England had a pretty strong native tradition of heresy against Catholicism with Lollardy, so I imagine there'd still be pretty serious religious conflict later in the sixteenth century but with the positions reversed from the OTL Elizabethan age: a Catholic monarchy vs. a Protestant faction among the nobility and people.

Good points, I suspect you're correct and England would effectively go Protestant, although probably a more Calvinistic form. England was never particularly secure within the Roman fold. The phrase 'perfidious albion' originally referred to England's tendency every few centuries to drift away from Rome's orthodoxy

[Grey Wolf]

Didn't Henry produce 3 sons and 2 daughters ? That doesn't sound particuarly like reproductive problems.

If he were freer to remarry earlier, then he would not be in so much of a mental hurry, and could afford to wait for wifey number 2 to do the business in the natural course of things

Even if he needs to get rid of her, she's not the emperor's cousin, so its a lot less of a problem than with Catherine

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[DrakeRlugia]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

Didn't Henry produce 3 sons and 2 daughters ? That doesn't sound particuarly like reproductive problems.

If he were freer to remarry earlier, then he would not be in so much of a mental hurry, and could afford to wait for wifey number 2 to do the business in the natural course of things

Even if he needs to get rid of her, she's not the emperor's cousin, so its a lot less of a problem than with Catherine

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Yes -- but his first son died 52 days after his birth. Edward VI was sickly from birth and Mary was as well.

I think Henry VIII just had bad luck. Catherine's problems might've steemed from fasting as one previous poster pointed out (that is quite interesting too -- had never heard of that before), and many believe that Anne Boleyn had a blood abnormality that prevented her from giving birth to more than one living child, that her blood type was Rh negative (rhesus blood system) while Henry's blood was Rh positive. This genetic combination was lethal for infants who inherit the Rh antigen from their father (Rh positive) instead of their mother. The mother's antibodies attack the infant's Rh positive red blood cells as it would an infection.

[MerryPrankster]

I also heard someone blaming Edward VI's issues on congenital syphilis.

Given Henry's tendencies (he had an illegitimate son named "Henry FitzRoy" from somewhere and Anne Boleyn's mother may have been his mistress too, at least according to Spanish propaganda accusing Elizabeth of being a freakish spawn of incest), I would not be surprised.

[DrakeRlugia]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

I also heard someone blaming Edward VI's issues on congenital syphilis.

Given Henry's tendencies (he had an illegitimate son named "Henry FitzRoy" from somewhere and Anne Boleyn's mother may have been his mistress too, at least according to Spanish propaganda accusing Elizabeth of being a freakish spawn of incest), I would not be surprised.

Yes, and apparently Elizabeth showed some mild symptoms of congenital syphilis as well. In fact, all of Henry VIII's surviving legitimate children did, including Mary! Mary herself also had terrible migraines, and irregular menstruation on top of that. I remember reading something about Edward VI's health which suggested congenital syphilis on his poor health. It is also believed this is why Henry had no other children with his other wives, that he had been rendered impotent by the dreaded 'French disease.' I can't see a man like Henry VIII giving up sex simply because of that jousting wound that caused his leg to swell up, or because he was too fat...