1960's - France after Nuclear War

[Michel Van]

Originally Posted by M79

Well, how extensive is the war? Are we talking an "Alas Babylon" scenario with full-out war or a much more limited one? Heck, in a ground war there is a chance the Red Army might enter France and dictate their own terms! I'd like to know more about the war before making more conclusions.

My Favorite senario is This

the 1961 Berlin Wall Crisis escalate in full scale War.
as Firefight happen under NATO and Sovjet troops at Checkpoint Charlie on 27 october 1961

suspecting this a Sovjet Invasion of West Berlin give U.S. Comand in Berlin NATO Alert
suspecting this a NATO Invasion of East Berlin, Red Army Commader give Alert to Moscow

SAC launch SIOP-62 plan and start attack on 1077 targets in
the Sovjet, China, Eastern Bloc, north Korea, north Vietnam.
with ICBM, MRBM, SLBM, SRBM and Bomber.
in same time NATO troops defend there Base until the Tactical Nuke are read to use
as first sovjet MRBM hits NATO HQ in France and NATO Base in Germany, Italy and Britain.
Moscow is vaporise by SAC with 100 MEGA TONS on Nuclear weapons. during 15 hours attacks
over the hours hunders tactical nukes explode In north Europe and east Europe.
after 15 hours the first phase of SIOP-62 end and SAC check on Sovjet counter attack
but there is no more counter attack...

in this Senario the Nedelin catastrophe never happen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedelin_disaster
Chief Marshal Nedelin makes the R-16 operational capability in july 1961
so there ICBM attack on USA Washington D.C. , New York, Chigago, Los Angeles
non of Sovjet Bomber get true USAF Air defense
several Canadian City near US border are nuke by mistake by
Sovjet Bomber crew thinking there over USA
also Sovjet Submarine attack on East coast and in US. Base in Pazific
(Okinawa, Guam mabye Hawaii)


Aftermat:
North and East Europe is devastated
Britain, West and East Germany, east Europe, Sovjet Union and China are destroy
except Hungary how is Spared in SIOP-62 plans
Scandinavia is contaminated with deadly radioactive fallout from Britain push by the wind.
after a week the Radiation falls on nievau of 1986 Chernobyl except,
massive Fallout areas around Paris, Berlin, Frankfurt an Main, Hambrug, Moscow, Beijing,
Washington D.C. , New York, Chigago

except the miracle of Los Angeles were the R-16 malfuntion and hit Nevada desert.

[Berra]

I got the image of stereotypical Frenchmen with beret and baugette driving around in old Renaults fighting of road rats in a 1980's style, post-apocalyptic setting.

[black angel]

thought, France in 1961/2 is started building it's nuclear arsenal, it's testing in the beginning was in Algerian Sahara, and thanks to the Algerian War more French troops would be in Algeria, given these two facts Algeria is likely to be hit hard, a high number of refugees from there, any way, the cities, if this turns into the ugly kind of war, the USSR would go for the cities Paris is today (I can't get 1960 #) is far far larger then the next biggest city, but the top 10 are

Paris
Marseille
Lyon
Toulouse
Nice
Nantes
Strasbourg
Montpellier
Bordeaux
Lille

In any war Paris is done as we've seen, today the greater metropolitan area of Paris has about 14% of France's population.

[Michel Van]

France after Nuclear war of 1961 (version 1,0)

Years 1961-1966

Prelude
with The successful U.S. Invasion of Cuba and successful Sovjet test of R-16 ICBM
the world was closer to a nuclear war in 1961

Kennedy and Khrouchtchev had heavy dispute in June during Vienna metting
about Cuba Invasion and West Berlin
unfortunately, a translation error made on remark by Khrouchtchev compounded the matter drastic
"you want exchange West Berlin for Cuba ?! " became "we will exchange West Berlin for Cuba!)

So building of the Berlin Wall, by the East Germans Goverment heated the crisis up
under the assumption this a prelude to new blockade or even a invasion of West Berlin.
in August Kennedy send more U.S. Troops (Berlin Brigade) and General Lucius D. Clay to West Berlin

in same way were the East Germans Goverment concerned about
the U.S. Military and ask "Will they tear down this wall with force ?"

on 27 october 1961 a Gunfight breakes lose under U.S an Sovjet troops at Checkpoint Charlie
suspecting this a Sovjet Invasion of West Berlin give U.S. Comand in Berlin NATO Alert
suspecting this a NATO Invasion of East Berlin, Red Army Commader give Alert to Moscow

France nation was not prepared for the crisis as World War III brake lose
they try to bring the President De Gaulle with a Helicopter to a bunker near Versaille
As the several Sovjet nuke hit Paris and erase literally the city

After the War without Central Goverment and Animistration from Paris, France was in total Chaos
over 10 milion french death (most in North france and Ile-de-france (Paris) were under Radioactive fallout)

Parts of France was overrun by european Refugees
Northwest coast by Vlammish Belgium, Netherlands and English Refugees
the Area of Lorraine over Bourgogne to Rhone-alps by over 12 Milion Germans
and Provence by Italians

Followed by Warsaw Pact troops occupying northern France
on orders and warplans by their dead Supreme commanders in Moscow
only to die due Radiation sicknesses after several weeks, waiting for supplies and new orders that never came
(they hab move true heavy Radioactive contaminated pars of Germany to reach France)

Bretange and Corsica even declare there Independence
some Departments were under Control of French Military or by Refugees
like germans how declared the "Freistaat Burgund" in area of Bourgogne

The Return of a French Goverment
in middel of this one men understand he was needet
Francois Mitterand !
he was in "polical exile" in province at town of Niévre since 1958

he had start right after War with the crisis management dealing with Refugees, Hunger, Looting, medical care
and becomme soon the prefect of Niévre and surrounding departments
His next Challenge was to form a new French goverment in 1964

he organised a metting in Orleans
with most of the Prefects, military "Governors" and other polical leaders in France
and Former parliamentarians and senators, of the 5 Republic
even came a Imposter claiming he was Charles de Gaulle !
(not the only one. There were several and in their Desparation people believed in everything, during this time... until they found the real remains in crash Helicopter in 1991)

Francois Mitterand had problematic negotiations,
Bretange and Corsica wandet to remain Independen
Most of the leaders called for a desolve of the German state "Freistaat Burgund" on french soil.
the Administrator of "Freistaat Burgund" Helmut Kohl declared they had only "organised" them self
because of lack help by Frenchs and offert a Compromise:
A French Federal Republic im stile of German Federal Rebulic !
(that survide as Parts Saarland, Baden-Württenberg, (south) Bavaria and (west) Austria)
a Compromise taken by Bretange, Corsica and others who wandet to remain in Power in there Area

So the 6 republic of Federal France was formt with Bordeaux as New capiltal (and 20 federal capitals)
with new election for Goverment , parlament and Senat for year 1965
the France mainland was divided into 20 "Régions federal"

in same time the Catholic Church try to reorganised therself
during the WWIII the Pope John XXIII die at destrution of Rome by sovjet nukes
On the intervention of the Cardinal of Lyon came a metting of most of the surviving europan Cardinals
in Avignion (france) with only a 3 point agenda:

1 election of a New Pope
2 Determination of the location of the New Vatican
3 selection of new Cardinal and Bishops by the new Pope

General Congregations select the Cardinal of Lyon to the 262 Pope, John XXIV
the first non italian pope since 443 years !
and selected Avignion to new Vaktican
this markt the end of Roman-Catholic Church era and beginn of the Avignion-Catholic Church

in summer of 1965 were the general election in France for the 6 Republic
most of french voters were confused not only the elect the new goverment
but also a regional goverment, was new to them.

more to come

[MerryPrankster]

The way you've formatted it makes it a bit slower to read, but an interesting concept--between France and the surviving parts of Germany, you might end up with a revived version of Charlemagne's empire!

Thing is, I don't know if entire Soviet armies would die of radiation poisoning, but that might weaken them enough for the battered survivors of NATO and the French army to beat them.

[New Yorker]

France has a couple of command bunkers if Wikipedia is correct. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_government). The British main bunker is underneath Whitehall if I recall correctly. I am not sure where the German command bunker is now. Maybe they've reused Zossen?

What about the smaller states such as Belgium, Austria, Norway, etc. Do they have bunkers for their kings, presidents, etc?

[Michel Van]

Originally Posted by New Yorker

France has a couple of command bunkers if Wikipedia is correct. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_government). The British main bunker is underneath Whitehall if I recall correctly. I am not sure where the German command bunker is now. Maybe they've reused Zossen?

What about the smaller states such as Belgium, Austria, Norway, etc. Do they have bunkers for their kings, presidents, etc?

so far i know that french command bunker were build in 1967

the German command bunker had long name :
Ausweichsitz der Verfassungsorgane des Bundes im Krisen- und Verteidigungsfall zur Wahrung von deren Funktionstüchtigkeit [AdVB]
(Emergency Seat of the Federal Constitutional Organs in the event of Crisis or Defence Situations to maintain their Ability to Function)
he was partly operational back in 1961 (closed in 1997 now a Museum)
in 1962 they made Secret surveys, they show that the bunker would collapse if hit by a nuclear bomb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_bunker_(Germany)

OTL near AdVB site is a NATO command Bunker but he was completed in 1963
Belgium has so old WW2 bunker around Liege, durnig 1961 they were closed.
after De gaulle kickt NATO out of France 1967, they build new Command Bunker for NATO in Belgium

[Michel Van]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

The way you've formatted it makes it a bit slower to read, but an interesting concept--between France and the surviving parts of Germany, you might end up with a revived version of Charlemagne's empire!

Thing is, I don't know if entire Soviet armies would die of radiation poisoning, but that might weaken them enough for the battered survivors of NATO and the French army to beat them.

Most the Red Army and Warsaw Pact troops will die true Nuclear attack and radiation poisoning
as by NATO troops firearms
the NATO doctrin in begin of 1960's was: Nukes, Nukes, Nukes and handfull of troops to protect them.
one exampel is Fulda Gap a routes for a hypothetical Soviet tank attack upon West Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulda_Gap
the U.S. Troops had stockpile of tactical Nuclear weapon for that area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-1_Matador
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGR-1_Honest_John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-5_Corporal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-18_Lacrosse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M65_Atomic_Cannon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Cr...nuclear_device)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_...ition_Munition
(last one is a 1964 model)
the nuclear mine had timer function, means they explode after a week
most of those weapon warheads were "Dirty"
means produce an almost instantly lethal radiation dosage

[New Yorker]

Sorry if this is drifting too much, but I am interested in command bunkers. Anyone know where information can be found about the bunkers of various countries? I assume most have them. I also realize that they may be secret and as such there is limited information on them. Thanks.

[Michel Van]

Originally Posted by New Yorker

Sorry if this is drifting too much, but I am interested in command bunkers. Anyone know where information can be found about the bunkers of various countries? I assume most have them. I also realize that they may be secret and as such there is limited information on them. Thanks.

mabye those links can help you

http://bunkersite.com/
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/index.shtml
http://www.fas.org/nuke/index.html
http://www.showcaves.com/english/exp...nea/index.html

here are some information on command bunkers
http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...ad.php?t=65071

sorry this is in german language
http://www.lostplaces.de/
http://www.architektur-der-apokalypse.de/

[Michel Van]

next part

1965 to 1970
the Troublesome years

Francois Mitterand was electet by the Parlement to First President of 6 Republic (under Nouvelle France party)

but he had a strong oppsition of Gaullist and Far-Right like Roland Gaucher from the Front National Francasise (FNF)
who demandet the remouval of ALL european Refugees backt to there homelands !
and Terminate "the Third occpation of France by Germans" and return to Central control 5 Republic Goverment.

the German Helmut Kohl (*1930-1990†) was also electet for French parlament for Freistaat Burgund.
and had to made his first speech on "the german question" in "National Assembly" in Bordeaux 1965
on his way to mircophone he was Insulted by Oppsition as Nazi, Boche and with Heil Hitler salut.
to every one surprise Helmut Kohl start his speech in French language ! (normaly he needed a Translator)

I know you don't like us Germans
but in face of total destruction, we have to forget the Past and work togetter for a peachful Future
with Liberty, equality, brotherhood

first there were a death silence in French parlament, then follow by Cheers and applause
here a Foto of Administrator Kohl at this moment

the new formt Goverment had alot of trouble,
after a Goverment study, it will take at last 20 years to rebuild France !
they had to litarly rebuild the country infrastuckture, because it used Paris as central hub
National streets, Railway even Telephone line went over Paris
first Priorität was Railway Transport to North france

Another Problem was looting
not only the french and Refugees People were looting for food, medicaments, gasoline.
other countrys were looting north france also !
already in 1963 Belgium and English Refugees told storys of foreign troops in nord france around habor Le Havre
but it take until 1966 french troops are send to Le Havre and find to there suprise Brazilian Military !
they occupy Le Havre to get acess to Belgium and North French industrial zone
were special kommandos Dismantled, decontaminated Factorys and pack them in crates and move to there new homelands
not only Brasil also Katanga and South-Africa, Australia were active in North Europe
(on the initiative of refugees from these North Europe countries)
and yes France was also "relocate" Factorys from North france, England, Belgium and Germany !

after several Gunfight between French and Brazilian Military with help of Vaktican a Ceasefire was declared.
the brasilian military governor of Le Have became Ambassador for French Goverment
and started negotiations between the two countries in Avignon , Brazil Militray junta insist on possession of city of Le Havre
while the French government conceded only give right for using the habor
A compromise was made, Brazil stop looting in France and provides food and raw materials for France, for industry goods to Brazil
this deal save Mitterand and Goverment against first Motion of no confidence by the Oppsition
because the Brasilian occpation of France...

in 1968 a major crisis starts as in Brazil happen another Military coup this time by German Refugees !
they transform Brazil Junta into a brutal Dicatorship
there Leader threatened the Frenchs government with food embargo and send an aircraft carrier to Le Havre
the demands hand over French Guiana and delivery von Weapons include nuclear bombs !

France was depending on Brazil food and raw materials during this time, so the had no choice
the French Prime Minister signed the treaty with Brazil and give his resignation
the Oppsition gave with success a Motion of no confidence
President Mitterand had to called for new election for 1969

more on France Algeria and Europe next week