America the Fallen, My First Timeline

America the Fallen

My First Timeline
By IchBinDieKaiser
Introduction
I know I don’t have much of a reason for writing this prologue, but I felt a little background to how I wrote this and why might explain a little of it.

I have been working on this Idea for quite some time. This actually came from two different ideas that were so similar that they fused into one. The original version of this timeline I had called, The American Prussia, and then I redid this poorly thought out and poorly written idea and labeled in as The American Prussia 2.0. The rewriting of it did not succeed for it too was poorly thought out and written(you can see these older threads if you search my profile).
However, I still liked the idea of the American colonies separating from Britain and then separating from each other, but it took a while before this idea of mine would reach the

Alternate History forums again. It did not come back until I was looking at other Alternate History sites. The site in particular was althistory.wikia.com, and I was looking at some of its articles. I remember seeing at the top of the screen the tab that said "Can you make this article better?", I clicked this tab and it led me to an empty article called "America the Fallen". This was based on the idea of the constitutional convention failing, and leading to the eventual destruction of the United States.

I liked this idea, and it was of the same time period as my American Prussia timeline attempt. I took these two Ideas and combined them together, and taking what I thought was the better name, and created this timeline. I released the original version of this timeline on the forums of AH.com, which had a small number of replies, although positive, did not suffice to me. So I rewrote this time and time again and released it onto AH.com. It never did extremely well, the most replies on a single one being about 12.

The last one I did I got positive feedback. They thought it was well written and plausible, but it lacked in depth detail. The lack of in depth detail was why I decided to write this revision of this timeline. I feel that this is the best version of this timeline I have done, and I hope you enjoy it.

I have been on AH.com for a little over a year now, and I have never posted something this extensive. Like many, I hope to create a timeline with the same level of prestige of Thande’s Look to the West. I’m sorry for boring you with this introduction that had little to do with the timeline. So without further ado, here is my first TRUE timeline.

Part One: Torn Asunder
"A considerable number have prevailed upon him to enter into a new covenant against us, and have torn asunder and cast behind their backs the good old covenant which their ancestors and ours entered into, and took strong hold of"…
Journals of the Continental Congress

In May of 1787, after the resounding failure of the convention in Annapolis, Maryland, it was decided that a new gathering of delegates would be required. They chose to have this gathering in Philadelphia, the birthplace of America.

As the delegates began to arrive at the Pennsylvania State House, on lookers on the streets swarmed the entrance to the building as the congregating demigods entered. Though summer was nearly in full swing, they board the windows shut and had armed men guard the doors. The delegates of this young and fragile nation feared the unrest that this meeting could stir.

This was no ordinary meeting of the confederation congress. This was a gathering of ideas to "Fix" their nations constitution, or if need be, completely discard it and start from new.
Many famous and popular names appeared in this convention such as James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and Benjamin Franklin. Even Patrick Henry, who was originally not going to attend, for fear of monarchism in some of the more federalist leaning states, attended when news of Washington being unable to come due to illness.

George Washington would die in October 1788 from Antrax. His last words were "I only regret not having been there… I fear that I am responsible for the fate that my country has befallen".

Other great names could not attend this convention, such as John Adams, who, along with John Jay, had been crisscrossing Europe as Minister to Britain and secretary of foreign affairs respectively. Even more devastating, the author of Independence, the father of America’s freedom, Thomas Jefferson, has been taken by death’s cold grip. While in Paris as Minister to France, he caught Pneumonia, dieing in late 1786, not even having the chance to be invited to the convention.

The convention started in mid May. All the delegates debated on what they hoped would become the new constitution of the United States of America. Tensions between the different states, and even between delegates of the same state would divide the members of this congregation into two camps; the camp of the Federalists, led by Alexander Hamilton, and the Anti-Federalists led by Patrick Henry. The Federalists argued for strong central government, while the Anti-Federalists argued against.

The Federalists struck first with a plan developed by James Madison, and presented by the Virginia governor Edmund Randolph. They wished for a strong federal government controlled almost solely by a legislature that would be dominated by the larger more populous states.
Other Federalists struck back at their own with the New Jersey plan. This would still strengthen the central government but leave the smaller, less populous states with as much power as larger states.

The issues of slavery were complex as well. Though most of the Virginian delegates thought of slavery as immoral, they still practiced the ownership of Africans for forced labor. The Carolina’s and Georgia allied together to prevent the northern manufacturing based economies from trying to stop the slave trade, a market that was very lucrative for them, being the only states that still allowed it.

Ben Franklin, the sage of the convention, tried to submit a compromise between the Small and the large states. This plan would create a legislature that would represent both equally and populously for the states. However, this plan was not received well by Madison, who along with many of his Virginian counter parts refused go along with this part of the constitution.


By September 7th they had a document that the convention would vote on. The fifty-five delegates voted. To pass this document, they needed three fourths of the states to agree. Rhode Island refused to send delegates, so they only need 9 of the 12 voting states to approve this legislation. Each state had one vote that would be decided by the delegates of the state.

Virginia’s vote came in first with a resounding no. Only John Blair and James Madison of Virginia would vote in favor of this new constitution.

The next vote counted was Pennsylvania, who unlike Virginia, had the exact opposite answer, a resounding yes from all of their delegates.

Despite the measures of anti-slavery in this constitution, South Carolina still voted yes on the new government.

New Jersey also voted yes, with the only delegate not to sign the document being William Houston, who left the convention earlier due to failing health.

New York nearly abstained from voting, which would have left the convention only needing 8 of 11 votes to pass. But the two anti-federalist delegates of New York, Robert Yates, and John Lansing Jr., were convinced to stay and vote no due to persuasion from Patrick Henry and George Mason of Virginia. Despite the Federalist leader Alexander Hamilton representing New York, his state would vote No on the constitution.

Next came North Carolina, who’s votes were very close. Richard D. Spaight and Hugh Williamson both voted yes, while William R. Davie, and Alexander Martin, a federalist, voted no. This left the states decision up to William Blount, a known advocate of states rights, who also had a desire for a stronger central government. He was eventually worn down, and decided to vote no in the convention.

Maryland was a close call as well. Being the middle colony, the bridge between North and South, it’s opinion was too desired. It ended with a 3 to 2 vote in favor of the constitution, with Luther Martin and John F. Mercer voting against.

When Massachusetts was to vote, their four delegates were deadlocked in a 2 to 2 tie. This resulted in Massachusetts abstaining its vote. Needing only 8 of 11 votes to pass now, they were at 4 votes in favor 3 against, they still need the remaining 4 states to vote yes.

New Hampshire voted yes unanimously, as did Delaware and Connecticut.

The deciding vote came down to Georgia. One vote for either side would either pass this draft of the constitution or fail it. Georgia had 4 delegates, two of them, William Houston and William Pierce voted no, while the third delegate John Dickinson voted yes, it was up to Abraham Baldwin, the Georgian delegate from Connecticut.

If he voted yes, it would lead to an abstention of Georgia’s vote, passing the constitution. If he voted no, it would fail the constitution, and most likely the convention. It wasn’t until September 12 that Baldwin made his decision. He, against his nature and his home state, voted no. This led to the vote being 7 in favor, and 4 against, with 2 abstaining.

The constitution did not pass, and the convention failed. Delegate Alexander Hamilton called for another convention to be held in New York in November, but it was too late. The most important state, Virginia, refused to attend the convention.

Unlike Rhode Island who had refused to attend the Philadelphia convention, Virginia WAS important. Being the most populous state, they could not afford to have Virginia not attend. It was too late. Virginia’s delegates refused to attend any further conventions. And so it began, the disolvement of the union.

Virginia seceded from the confederation in October of 1787, followed by New York in December. Georgia seceded in February of 1788, followed by North Carolina and Maryland. Delaware, feeling threatened by new enemy nations chose to secede in April. Also seceding in April were South Carolina and New Jersey. And in May Pennsylvania seceded. Being driven out, the only remaining members of the American Confederation were; Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts. These remaining states would not for long remain the United States.

The United States is no more, they have been torn a sunder. What kind of world will this lead to? What kinds of international relations and conflicts will arise from this catastrophe?
 
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You might have better luck if you write in shorter blocks. Long sections of text can intimidate new readers or just make it not worth your while to read the thing.

ED: Congregating Demigods? Haha. Also, why did VA storm off in a huff?
 
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Part Two: Regrouping
In February of 1788 a new series of conventions began amongst the newly independent nations. The first was to occur in Virginia. Starting on February 9 of 1788, the Virginia legislature and other delegates met in order to build a new constitution that would work better for an independent nation.

Many of the delegates that had attended the Philadelphia convention were also present, such as James Madison, George Mason, and Patrick Henry. Other big names were there as well such as Richard Henry Lee, John Marshal, and Henry Lee. The current governor Edmund Randolph, who has been serving as de facto head of state since Virginia’s secession from the United States, serves as the president of the convention.

Proposals are made as to what kind of government Virginia should have. In this convention, Madison presented a plan that was similar to the Virginia plan from the Philadelphia Convention.

It called for a three branch government with; a Bicameral legislature proportioned on the population of each county, a Judicial branch consisting of a Supreme court and a hierarchy of inferior courts for each county and district, and National Executive who will be chosen by a joint session of the Legislature.

The Executive sole purpose is to ensure that the will of the legislature is carried out. The National Executive does not have veto power, making the legislature the most powerful branch.

The Legislature would appoint all executives, secretaries, and judges. It called for a strong central government that could veto any actions taken by district or county. Suffrage was to be given to white males.

This did not sit well with Anti-Federalists like Mason and Henry. Despite opposition to the plan of Madison, there were not many competing arguments. This form only counted free white inhabitants of Virginia toward the population. Knowing they couldn’t completely defeat the Madison plan for Virginia, Mason and Henry proposed changes that managed to pass.

The National Executive was given veto power, but only on domestic issues. Any treaties with foreign nations, or declarations of war, or any issue regarding foreign powers could not be vetoed. Originally, the National Executive was to be elected for a term of 4 years with a limit of 1 term, by the end National Executive would be given a term of 2 years with no limit on the number of terms that could be served.

The convention lasted until April 13, when the final draft of the constitution was approved by the convention and sent to be voted on by the people. The new constitution was approved of by 60% of the voting populous in May.

Though the constitution was written and approved the convention was not yet over. Virginia still had territorial issues that needed to be resolved between its neighbors and self. They convention members wanted to draw up the county lines and Judicial district lines before the new government came into effect.

It was announced to the people of Virginia that elections will be held to appoint the government officials will be held by November of 1788 at the latest, and the new constitution will officially be established for the new government on March 1st, 1789.

The constitution was approved in May of 1788, this gave the current government 6 months to negotiate and resolve lands disputes with its neighbors before the elections and transitions begin in November.
Maryland, having seceded in February, began its own constitutional convention in Annapolis(which becomes known as the 2nd Annapolis convention).

April 1788. Unlike the Richmond Convention, there was not as much conflict. Despite being a close vote, the delegates at the convention wanted a stronger government out of fear of their neighbors such as Virginia or Pennsylvania.

Their constitution had a Unicameral Legislature called the Senate. Each member would be elected for 6 years. It had a Judicial branch(much like OTL except on a smaller scale). And it had an executive branch with a President(the president has the same powers as IOTL). Their constitution was ready by May of 1788, but like Virginia, it still had territorial issues to settle.

Delaware also had very little dispute in its convention in May, keeping almost the exact same government. The only real change in power was that the Head of State, previously referred to as Governor, is now referred to as President. Their new government would be completely established by July of 1788.

The Governments of North and South Carolina, although independent now, did not call for a constitutional convention, at least not right away. Neither would have a convention to make any changes to their constitutions until 1792.

Georgia had a large population of Loyalists. During the Revolution Georgia, along with many of the southern colonies had been pro-British, even at the end of the war. Loyalists were making their way into the positions of the Georgian government, and they decided to reshape Georgia’s governmental structure to that it was before the revolution, except not as a colony of Britain. The Head of State for Georgia was to be addressed as Lord Governor.

These changes took effect by June of 1788.

New Jersey was quick to have a constitutional convention after their secession in April of 1788. Being a smaller state, New Jersey didn’t need a large state based plan. Essentially they ended up adopting the New Jersey plan from the Philadelphia convention. Like Maryland, they wrote in a Unicameral legislature, with each county receiving 1 representative.

Along with the standard Judicial system that every state had adopted, it had its President Executive, with the same powers as the Maryland President.

New York took a surprisingly long time to have a constitutional convention, considering it seceded in November of 1787, the second state to do so. It wasn’t until May of 1788 that their legislature, along with a handful of outside delegates meet together in New York City to hammer out a constitution.

The two most prominent people in this convention leading the confronting sides were; George Clinton leading the Anti-Federalists, and Alexander Hamilton leading the Federalists. There was a sharp split in the convention between what became the Clintonians and the Hamiltonians.

Having failed to get his plan at the Philadelphia convention passed, he tried it in the New York convention. His plan of government had resembled the British government too much for the comfort of the other delegates at the Philadelphia convention.

His plan for government had three branches: Judicial, Legislative, and Executive. The Judicial branch would have a Supreme court that would serve the nation as the final appellate court. There would also be inferior courts for all the districts of New York. The judges of the Supreme court would serve for life unless they resign or are voted out by the legislature.

The Legislative branch would be divided into two house, a lower house, and an upper house. The lower house, the Assembly, would be elected by popular vote of the people for an unlimited number of 3 year terms. The upper house, the Senate, would be chosen by the Assembly, and these people would serve life terms. Just like the Judiciary branch, the Senators can be removed from office by a successful Impeachment. The Legislative would have sole power to declare war.

The head of state would be called the Executive Governor. He would be elected by the popular vote of the people. The Executive Governor would serve for life unless removed in the same fashion as a Senator or Judge. The Executive Governor would have an absolute veto over any legislation from the national legislature. He would also serve as commander in chief of the armed forces of New York.

His plan would eliminate any local legislative bodies. Each district would have a Governor that is selected by the Executive governor and is subject to replacement at the Executive Governor’s discretion.

The Clintonians thought that this format gave the government a gross amount of power, and they refused to go along with it. The debates grew very heated as all order broke down in convention.

When the convention ended for the day on June 29th, the delegates went to their lodgings.

When George Clinton and some other anti-federalist delegates left the convention they walked down a street where there was a large crowd gathered in the road. They seemed to be listening to someone standing on a stack of crates. That person on the crates was reading one of the many Federalists papers written by Alexander Hamilton, and was preaching the need for such a government.

The man on the crates had exclusive knowledge of what was being said in the convention, which was supposed to be secret. Someone in the crowd shouted out that George Clinton was behind the crowd. A riot broke out on the streets of New York. News of the convention and the discussions of it had been leaked to the public, and just like the delegates, the people were divided. Shots from muskets and pistols began to ring out in the streets as the riots grew throughout the city.

One stray round landed in the chest of George Clinton. He fell to the ground gripping his chest, blood on his hand. Some of his nearby friends managed to grab him and take him to safety, but it was too late. He died of blood loss by the time he made it to a hospital. News of this was sent to his lieutenant governor Pierre Van Cortlandt. The convention was postponed until Cortlandt could be notified and be sworn in at Albany.
Cortlandt was sworn in as governor on July 17th of 1788.

He was obligated to attend the convention in New York. He arrived on the 20th of July and ordered the convention resume on the 22nd. While in New York city he called the New York militia to the city to serve as peace keepers and to prevent any more riots from occurring.

The convention resumed on the 22nd with a lot more control being exerted by Cortlandt, now serving as President of the Convention. There were even soldiers in the convention hall to keep order and civility. Though the death of Clinton gave the anti-federalists a martyr for their cause, they still lost their charismatic leader.

This did a devastating blow to the anti-federalits of the convention. Most of the provisions of Hamilton’s plan passed except for a few powers of the Executive Governor. The powers removed from the Executive Governor were the ability to remove district Governors at discretion. He could call for Impeachment of a Governor, but the people of the respective governor’s district would vote whether to keep him or replace him. The other power that was limited was the absolute Veto. The absolute veto was limited to domestic issues, however, in time of war, the Executive Governor may practice an unlimited absolute Veto.

This constitution was finished on August 3 and a vote was set for October. The new government, if passed, would establish itself in January of 1789.

In May Pennsylvania seceded from the fledgling confederation known as the United States. When Pennsylvania did this, it forced the remaining members to leave and reconvene in Boston. Pennsylvania followed the trend of most of the former members of the United States and held a constitutional convention. Just short of a year later, another convention is held in Philadelphia, which becomes known as the 2nd Philadelphia Convention.

The convention met in the Pennsylvania State House, just as the previous convention. Benjamin Franklin, who is still serving as the President of the Supreme Executive Council, presided as President of the convention. This convention was not done by the legislature and delegates, though many of them showed up. The convention was open to the public and was to be an open forum. This was done in order to avoid the same kind of riots that devastated New York city in late June and early July.

The convention began on July 7th of1788. Their were giant crowds of people outside the state house. They could only let in 150 people at a time. It got so crowded that a small riot did breakout in the back. This forced the Supreme Executive Council to change the rules for allowing people in.

They created what became known as the small party elector system. The Council registered small groups of parties that would have between 100 and 250 members in it. They would register each person with each group, so the council knew who was in each party, so they could ensure no one was in multiple parties. Each party would send one person to represent them. This person would be allowed in the state house and would delegate on behalf of their party. This system ended up creating a large number of political parties, some growing beyond the 250 member limit.

They reopened the convention on July 30th after all the parties and members were registered and their representative chosen. The convention ended up having 174 delegates from these political parties. Some of these parties had well over the 250 limit, one exceeding over 5000.

Seeing all these political parties arise, President Franklin proposed that they have a parliamentary type of Legislature. This would allow the multitude of political parties to remain in existence. The delegates were highly in favor of this. A Judiciary and an Executive branches were also easily excepted.

The new Parliament was designed with two houses, the House of Delegates, and the Chamber, elected members being referred to as Delegates or Chamber-men, respectively. The Delegates would be elected by the popular vote of the people, and apportioned according to the population of a region. The Chamber-men would be elected by the legislature. There would be 1 Chamber-man for every 10 Delegates.

The Executive was the one unique feature that the other states didn’t have. Unlike most of the other states that had one Executive at the top, Pennsylvania would have two: The Prime Minister, and the President. The Prime Minister would be elected by Parliament, while the President would be elected by the people. The Prime Minister would handle Domestic policy, and the President would handle Foreign policy.

This system gave Pennsylvania a Semi-Presidential system of government. The constitution was approved by the convention on September 2nd, and there would be popular vote on it in October.

Though their constitution was finished, Pennsylvania still had Territorial issues it needed to be taken care of with its neighbors.

When they were removed from Philadelphia, the remnants of the United States meet in Boston to salvage what is left of the confederation. The remaining members were Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and New Hampshire. They wanted to revamp the constitution that they failed to back in 1787.

Though they were still technically in union under the Articles of Confederation, they largely acted on their own, not consulting with their other members. States like Rhode Island and New Hampshire wanted to continue doing this, acting like their own nations.

Caleb Strong, a delegate from Massachusetts offered a solution to this predicament. They decided to have a nation of nations. Each state was to be considered its own country that could have its own military, treaties, and government. However they would all be bound by a small number of factors.

Each state would use the same currency, creating a bond of economics. Though there was a common currency, there was no central bank. Between members of the union there would be absolutely no kind of trade barriers, no Tariffs, nothing that might inhibit trade. The third commonality was the united assembly. This would replace the congress of the confederation.

The assembly would have very little power. It had 2 main purposes, approval of new members states, and determining acts of war. The fourth and final purpose was the most important of all, the common defense article.

The common defense article was made to help protect them. Each state could have its own military, but there was no standing army for the union as a whole. The common defense article(CDA) stated that if one member state was attacked by a foreign power, all members must aide militarily.

If it was determined by the assembly that the requirements for the CDA to take effect, each state would contribute soldiers and munitions to a Coalition army. Each Coalition army was to be given a title that would be known in their records and history books. For example, the first time a Coalition army is called on, it would be referred to as the First Coalition Army. Each subsequent time it is called upon, it would be given the next consecutive number title.

There were limits to the CDA. First and most importantly, the attack from a foreign power must be unprovoked. If the member state declared war on the foreign power first and then was attacked, the CDA was not in effect. Second, the Coalition army was to be a defensive army only. It could not be sent outside of the union. Third , all member states must contribute to the Coalition in some way. Fourth and final, if a Coalition Army was called upon, the treaty made is a coalition treaty, and all members states must accept and follow its terms.

This plan was popular with Rhode Island and New Hampshire, but not so much with Massachusetts and Connecticut. But in order to preserve some kind of union, they allowed it. From this point on they would be referred to as the Union of New England.

With new forms of governments on the way, what effects will this have on the relation with the disunited states of America? Only time will tell.

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questions?

comments?
 
You might have better luck if you write in shorter blocks. Long sections of text can intimidate new readers or just make it not worth your while to read the thing.

ED: Congregating Demigods? Haha.

Indeed they were. That phrase was used by Thomas Jefferson IOTL to describe the meeting.

P.S. Thanks for the advice, I'll try to shorten the posts in the future.
 
Indeed they were. That phrase was used by Thomas Jefferson IOTL to describe the meeting.

P.S. Thanks for the advice, I'll try to shorten the posts in the future.
Maybe he did say that, but I choose to remember them as drunken neurotic jerks who did the best they could and left the rest for later generations of Americans to clean up. :)
 
Part Three: The Great Divide
The new constitution of Virginia was approved in May of 1788, but like most of the former colonies, territorial issues plagued Virginia. Virginia wished to have all of its territorial issues settled by November, when the elections for the new government were to occur.

Edmund Randolph, still governor of Virginia had an idea proposed to the still acting Virginia legislature for a conference to settle the territorial issues of all the land south of the Ohio and east of Mississippi rivers. The proposed bill that would allow this conference to occur invited Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia to send ambassadors and negotiators to Richmond. The bill was passed April, and the conference was scheduled for August.

All of the invited states agreed to attend, how ever there was one problem, Spain. News of this conference made its way down into Spanish Florida, who had claims on land in the south. When Edmund Randolph heard of this, it was treated as unpleasant news. There were already 5 different nations looking to grab land in this conference, no one wanted to add a 6th.

Letters continued to exchange between the different powers, some trying to get others out, and others in. In July, messages were sent from Spanish Florida to all of the participating states. The message was a threat of war to anyone who will not allow Spain to enter. Georgia immediately wrote letters of support for Spain. Eventually Randolph caved in, and allowed Spain to come.

The Richmond Conference began on August 3rd, in a building not to far from where the Richmond Convention was still going on. Their reps all went to the building and poured over maps and documents, debating and arguing over who should get what and why.

Virginia persuaded the others into Virginia acquiring the land that had been recognized as the Kentucky territory by the former United States.

A strange occurrence took place at the conference. Each state was supposed to send its own representatives to the conference, but North and South Carolina sent a group together to the conference a team between the two of their states. With their combined influence, they were able to acquire the Tennessee territory for the Carolinas.

The most difficult territory to divide up was the remaining land known as the Mississippi territory. Spain and Georgia had the most influence to acquire land there, but it was not enough to decide who exactly got what. Eventually a plan for the division of the territory was proposed and excepted. The Remaining territory would be divided in half, with the northern half going to Georgia, and the southern half going to Spain. Spain annexed the southern half and proclaimed it as part of Spanish Florida. This was all finished in mid October of 1788.

This was not the only conference to be held in the dividing of the disputed land. In November another conference was held in New York city to divide up the northwest territory left from the united states. The ambassadors and negotiators met on November 21st, of 1788. The attending participants were: New York, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and Connecticut.

There were many disputes over the Northwest territory. None of the new nations recognized the Northwest Ordinance that had been passed by the Congress of the Confederation over a year ago, and now they all want a piece. Both New York and Virginia had claims on the entire Northwest territory. Connecticut had land claimed that lined up with its northern and southern borders, which also included the northern half of Pennsylvania. This was not going to stand.

The first order of business in the conference was to create pre-partitioned borders to all of the states. Virginia was recognized as having all the land it occupied prior to the revolution, and including the Kentucky territory it received from the Richmond Conference.

Maryland and Pennsylvania had a dispute over what land is truly theirs. They claimed a piece of southern Pennsylvania that was from its western most border and came straight across to New Jersey. Maryland even claimed Delaware, arguing it had no reason for being there. As true of a point as that seemed, that issue would be left between Delaware and Maryland. The Problem with Maryland’s claim on Pennsylvania territory was that it would also take Philadelphia. Obvious to see that wasn’t going to happen. A deal was made between the states, Pennsylvania would sell Maryland the strip of land from their western border, to their closest border with Delaware, allowing Philadelphia to remain as part of Pennsylvania.

When Connecticut tried to claim the land that it wanted from Pennsylvania, that was the last straw for them. They refused to sell anymore of their country, and basically told Connecticut to leave the Conference, and that they would get nothing out of it. Massachusetts took the hint and left as well.

This left only Virginia and New York left to divide up the Northwest territory, but as they began to draw lines on the map, an ever apparent truth arose, the British. The British had not yet complied with all of the points of the Treaty of Paris, and after the break up of the united states, they probably never would. This led to a predicament at the conference, the British question. If they invited Britain, then it would be a loss of prestige, but if they didn’t they would end up going to war with Britain.

They came up with a temporary solution. They would first divide up the Ohio country region of the Northwest territory, send this news across the states and to Canada and Britain and wait for a response. If they heard no word from them, they would meet again in Williamsburg, Virginia in April of 1789 and divide up the next region of the northwest territory. They agreed to follow this pattern until the whole territory was divided.

A line was drawn connecting the Sandusky River and the Muskingum River. These rivers and the drawn line would serve as the dividing line of the Ohio country. New York received everything east of the border, and Virginia claimed everything west of it. They recognized that these lines would probably change with each conference. The Conference ended in mid January, after most of the states with new constitutions had their election.

The undetermined shards of the former United States has been carved up, and the lines set. Can these new nations retain their independence from the juggernaut to their north and across the seas?

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coments?

questions?
 
I like the way you resolved the "western lands" issue and laid the groundwork for a showdown in the Great Lakes. Hopefully the "Americans" will be able to drive the British from Fort Mackinac & Detroit.
 
View attachment America the Fallen.pdf

Okay, here is a map

Green= Union of New England
Purple= New York
Yellow= Pennsylvania
Light Blue= Maryland
Black= Delaware
Dark Red= New Jersey
Dark Blue= Virginia
Gold= Carolinas
Red= Georgia
Brown= Spanish Florida
Blue= Spanish Louisiana
Orange= New Spain
Grey= Un-determined

sorry for the complications of the map. I have a really bad mapping software.
 
Have you asked the map makers on the map thread for assistance? There are several expert cartographers there who I'm sure would be helpful. I made the attached map by downloading a 1790 map of the US states/territories from Wiki and altering it w/Photoshop to your boundaries and color key. (I made northern part of OTL Maine a different shade of green because it was in dispute at the time in OTL). It leaves much to be desired, but worked. Also, did I miss where Vermont joined the NE Union?

United_States_Divided copy.png
 
Have you asked the map makers on the map thread for assistance? There are several expert cartographers there who I'm sure would be helpful. I made the attached map by downloading a 1790 map of the US states/territories from Wiki and altering it w/Photoshop to your boundaries and color key. (I made northern part of OTL Maine a different shade of green because it was in dispute at the time in OTL). It leaves much to be desired, but worked. Also, did I miss where Vermont joined the NE Union?

Thanks, I'll have to check out the map makers thread.

Vermont is still part of New Hampshire at this point, at least is still claimed by New Hampshire. New York also has claims on Vermont, but most of the other states, including the entire Union of New England recognize it as part of New Hampshire. (Spoiler), A war between New York and the Union of New England is going to settle the problem in a later post.
 
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View attachment 76676

Okay, here is a map

Green= Union of New England
Purple= New York
Yellow= Pennsylvania
Light Blue= Maryland
Black= Delaware
Dark Red= New Jersey
Dark Blue= Virginia
Gold= Carolinas
Red= Georgia
Brown= Spanish Florida
Blue= Spanish Louisiana
Orange= New Spain
Grey= Un-determined

sorry for the complications of the map. I have a really bad mapping software.

just a thought for you... if SC gave up its claims to Georgia OTL, if they come in tandem with NC shouldn't they be able to keep those claims with NC support.. I already envision them evolving to some kind of Carolina Confederacy given they are already co-operating. that would add a thin strip of the Georgian Mississippi terr. to Tennesse from the SC borderin the far NW.
 
just a thought for you... if SC gave up its claims to Georgia OTL, if they come in tandem with NC shouldn't they be able to keep those claims with NC support.. I already envision them evolving to some kind of Carolina Confederacy given they are already co-operating. that would add a thin strip of the Georgian Mississippi terr. to Tennesse from the SC borderin the far NW.

Something similar involving the Carolinas is going to occur.
 
OTL that little bit of Pennsylvania that stick up along the lake was Bought from NY in 1820's due to building the Erie Canal [some kind of Deal -forget details].
I don't see NY giving it up Here, 20 years early.

?What is with that yellow blocking the west border of Marysland.? Given OTLs distrust of Pennsylvania and Virginia. I would expect a lot harder push from the Marysland delegates.

I thought that little [Virginia] Finger sticking up between Pennsylvania and Ohio was put there at the time of the Ohio joining the Union over a three way border dispute over the Corner, IE post 1800's.

I believe at this time the Louisiana/ Tejas border was undefined, but different maps put it at the Sabine OR the Nuches, but a lot wider than you show it.
 
OTL that little bit of Pennsylvania that stick up along the lake was Bought from NY in 1820's due to building the Erie Canal [some kind of Deal -forget details].
I don't see NY giving it up Here, 20 years early.

?What is with that yellow blocking the west border of Marysland.? Given OTLs distrust of Pennsylvania and Virginia. I would expect a lot harder push from the Marysland delegates.

I thought that little [Virginia] Finger sticking up between Pennsylvania and Ohio was put there at the time of the Ohio joining the Union over a three way border dispute over the Corner, IE post 1800's.

I believe at this time the Louisiana/ Tejas border was undefined, but different maps put it at the Sabine OR the Nuches, but a lot wider than you show it.

I ment to leave the Erie triangle off of Pennsylvania.

That yellow block is the part of Pennsylvania that Maryland received from their agreement at the New York Conference. Maryland didn't have any claims on that block. In fact, Pennsylvania had claim on most of Maryland, and a chunck of Virginia.

That "Little Finger" is one of the unwritten adjustments. Basically, I had planned on that little finger appearing, I just didn't see it as that necessary to write that little detail in. I realize that it was post 1800, but then again, this is alternate history. Some things happen earlier, and some happen later.

Just to clarify, that map that is up on that post was not made by me. In the post above it I have a link to the poorly made map I made that shows what might be a slightly more realistic on that one issue.
 
Hmm interesting, I do recall reading parts of it before. The diversity in Governance is appreciated.

I wonmder how the union of New England will cope with the Highly Centeralized Republic of New York.

Speaking of Which during the Revolutionary war Vermont decalred its independence and the Green Mountain boys controlled much of its territory. What is the status of the Green Mountain Boys by the present time? There was some Ira Allen favored returning to the British fold as pat of Canada. The British may be more inclined to support this venture with the USA gone. Even the NEU might support such a move in some quarters since it would create a buffer between them and NEw York.

Perhaps a deal with London that in exchane for the bulk of Vermont the Maine dispute is settled in New England's favor?
 
Hmm interesting, I do recall reading parts of it before. The diversity in Governance is appreciated.

I wonmder how the union of New England will cope with the Highly Centeralized Republic of New York.

Speaking of Which during the Revolutionary war Vermont decalred its independence and the Green Mountain boys controlled much of its territory. What is the status of the Green Mountain Boys by the present time? There was some Ira Allen favored returning to the British fold as pat of Canada. The British may be more inclined to support this venture with the USA gone. Even the NEU might support such a move in some quarters since it would create a buffer between them and NEw York.

Perhaps a deal with London that in exchane for the bulk of Vermont the Maine dispute is settled in New England's favor?

The Green Mountain boys are still around. They do occupy a good chunck of Vermont, but none of the former states recognize the Republic of Vermont. But the Green Mountain Boys are going to play an integral roll in a series of upcoming conflicts between the Union of New England and New York.

The prospect of a buffer is something they do consider, but then again it is up to New Hampshire do decide. The Union of New England is more of an Economic Union then anything else. Yes they do have the Common Defense Article and the Assembly, but neither have much power outside of war. Basically, New England isn't a completely united country yet, but it is going to happen by the 1820's.
 
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