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Old July 21st, 2009, 12:55 AM
Aranfan Aranfan is offline
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WI Joan of Arc had successfully escaped from her Burgundian captors?

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Old July 21st, 2009, 01:03 AM
Philip Philip is offline
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Well if she gets her druthers, she'll lead a crusade against the Hussites.
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Old July 21st, 2009, 01:13 AM
MNP MNP is offline
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Well if she gets her druthers, she'll lead a crusade against the Hussites.
If she escaped and kept winning will the French nobles or King try to kill her for being a woman who usurped them? People might start to think "let's have a Holy Queen lead us! She's done better than anyone else!" But I am no expert on 15th Century France.
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Old July 21st, 2009, 01:34 AM
Philip Philip is offline
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Originally Posted by MNPundit View Post
If she escaped and kept winning will the French nobles or King try to kill her for being a woman who usurped them?
Usurped them? Joan was the Dauphin's biggest supporter.

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People might start to think "let's have a Holy Queen lead us! She's done better than anyone else!" But I am no expert on 15th Century France.
If they want to get rid of her, what better way than to let her lead her crusade in Bohemia?
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Old July 21st, 2009, 03:42 AM
Aranfan Aranfan is offline
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Why did Joan want to go on a crusade in Bohemia? Wouldn't she concentrate on freeing the rest of France first?
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Old July 21st, 2009, 08:36 AM
Falastur Falastur is offline
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She has a very small window of opportunity between being captured and the English declaring that she will be tried for witchcraft. Once they make that claim, due to the piety and superstition of the age, her credibility even with the French whom she had been supporting may be forever damaged beyond repair.
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Old July 21st, 2009, 09:24 AM
Hapsburg Hapsburg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
Well if she gets her druthers, she'll lead a crusade against the Hussites.
Agreed; if she either is never caught or is ransomed back into French hands, she may continue leading French troops in battle and win the war sooner. In time, during the Hussite Wars, she probably would be commissioned to lead a force of soldiers, considering her success and inevitable status as a national heroine.
If she dies against the Hussites, she's a martyr. If she lives, she's a war heroine and lives out the rest of her life in comfort.

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She has a very small window of opportunity between being captured and the English declaring that she will be tried for witchcraft.
Correction: tried for heresy. Entirely different crime.
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Old July 21st, 2009, 12:04 PM
Philip Philip is offline
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Originally Posted by Aranfan View Post
Why did Joan want to go on a crusade in Bohemia? Wouldn't she concentrate on freeing the rest of France first?
In her own words (a letter to the Hussites she dictated around the time of her capture):
Jesus, Mary
For a long time the rumor and voice of the people have reported to me, Joan the Maiden, that from true Christians you have become heretics, and like the Saracens you have ruined the true faith and worship, and embraced a disgraceful and unlawful superstition; and wishing to sustain and spread it there is not a disgraceful thing nor foolish belief which you would not dare. You spoil the sacraments of the Church, which were set up as memorials, you massacre Christians because they preserve the true Faith. What is this fury? Or what rage or madness consumes you? This faith, which God Almighty, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have revealed, established, elevated to power, and glorified a thousand ways through miracles - you persecute this Faith, you wish to overthrow and destroy it. You are blind, but not because you lack eyes or understanding. Do you believe that you will remain unpunished for it? Or are you unaware that God opposes your unlawful efforts and will not permit you to remain in darkness and error? So that the more you indulge yourselves in crime and sacrilege, the more He will prepare great punishments and anguish for you.

As far as I am concerned, to tell you frankly, if I wasn't occupied in the English wars I would have come to see you a long time ago; but if I don't find out that you have reformed yourselves I might leave off [fighting] the English and go against you, so that by the sword [lit. - "by iron"], if I can't do it any other way, I will eliminate your mad and obscene superstition and remove your heresy or your life; but if you would prefer to return to the Catholic faith and the original Light, then send your ambassadors to me and I will tell them what you need to do; if [on the other hand] you are not willing and if you obstinately resist the spur, remember what damage and offenses you have committed and await me, who will inflict similar upon you with forces human and divine.
I don't know if it was a bluff or a real threat, but she seemed willing to delay further battle against the English.
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Old July 21st, 2009, 12:10 PM
Philip Philip is offline
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Originally Posted by Falastur View Post
She has a very small window of opportunity between being captured and the English declaring that she will be tried for witchcraft.
Heresy, not witchcraft. Oddly, a mistranslated version of the letter above was used as evidence against her.

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Once they make that claim, due to the piety and superstition of the age, her credibility even with the French whom she had been supporting may be forever damaged beyond repair.
Meh. Depends on (who controls) the local bishop. If she is charged by the English/Burgundians, but then ransomed, a French bishop may very well acquit and declare the accusers to be heretics.
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Old July 21st, 2009, 04:37 PM
Dathi THorfinnsson Dathi THorfinnsson is online now
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Given that it was the English and Burgundians (against whom she fought very effectively) I don't think anyone (including most of the English and Burgundians trying her) thought that the trial was anything more than political.

If she escaped, it might even enhance her piety ('I cried out to God, and He sent an angel to open the doors of my prison.' )
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