The Mormon War, 1844

[MacCaulay]

But not where you may think...

...before the Church of Latter Day Saints made it's way to Salt Lake City, they set up shop for a time in Nauvoo, Illinois (originally Commerce, Ill. Joseph Smith successfully petitioned to have the name changed). There, the Mormons set up a semi-private county militia known as the Nauvoo Legion.

This was common at the time: the Mexican War was fought by smaller units such as this, forming into the volunteer battalions and regiments that fought and defeated the Mexican army, and then formed the nucleus of the original Union and Confederate armies.

It was a fairly large unit compared to most: 2,000 men or thereabouts, 2 regiments of infantry, and 1 of cavalry. There were even light cannon. They were more or less as well outfitted, and even had access to the federal armory in the city.

During a riot (which may or may not have been caused by non-Mormons), Joseph Smith declared martial law in Nauvoo. The Legion locked the city down. In response to Joseph Smith's implication of martial law, the governor of Illinois ordered his arrest.
Joseph Smith ordered the Nauvoo Legion to not take any hostile action when the Illinois State militia showed up and prepared to assault the city. The militia marched into Nauvoo, took Smith into custody, and began taking him back to the state capital in Springfield, Illinois.

Before they could arrive there, elements of another militia, the Carthage Greys, shot and killed Joseph Smith.
Brigham Young, who had taken command of the Legion, decided to evacuate Nauvoo with what they could get their hands on and light out for the West. The place they eventually ended up in was Salt Lake City.

We could ask ourselves about what would've have happened had Brigham Young decided not to evacuate West, but that's not the logical POD in my mind.
It's if the Smith had felt that the State forces could not be trusted to keep him safe, and so ordered the Nauvoo Legion to hold the town against the other militias that were at the gates.

[black angel]

all the Mormons die, along with a lot of other people.

[Solomaxwell6]

They're not going to succeed. Not by a long shot. We could very well see the LDS Church get pretty much wiped out right there. Even if the state militia could keep its own discipline, nearby militias might not. Most of the other towns in the area were incredibly anti-Mormon, and it's likely to see groups like the aforementioned Carthage Greys start a massacre. So with several of the church leaders and a very large part of the population wiped out, the church doesn't really get a chance to get the sort of following it has today. A small group seen as a bit of a cult, maybe, but not much more.

[MacCaulay]

Originally Posted by Solomaxwell6

-snip-

Well, that's what I was thinking about.

Was the cultural mood such that the government could've pushed for an outright ban on the Church of Latter-Day Saints?

Yes, it's unconstitutional, but this would've been incredibly divisive. Towns throughout southern Illinois would be burying members of their families because of Mormon bullets. And these people, whether what the Illinois militia did was right or wrong, basically waged war on their neighbours and coopted State and possibly Federal property to do it.

[Hnau]

Originally Posted by MacCaulay

In response to Joseph Smith's implication of martial law, the governor of Illinois ordered his arrest.

The Governor of Illinois, Thomas Ford, actually wanted to prevent a civil war. He had told Smith he would provide protection if he would give himself up and stand trial for the destruction of the anti-Mormon newspaper in Nauvoo. Smith ultimately gave himself up, riding with his brother Hyrum out to the militia to prevent the militia from occupying Nauvoo.

Originally Posted by MacCaulay

Brigham Young, who had taken command of the Legion, decided to evacuate Nauvoo with what they could get their hands on and light out for the West.

This was, of course, in early 1846 when most of the Saints evacuated after increasing anti-Mormon vigilantism. They shelled Nauvoo at one point.

Was the cultural mood such that the government could've pushed for an outright ban on the Church of Latter-Day Saints?

There was an Extermination Order made in Missouri only six years earlier, in which all rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom were taken away from the Latter-Day Saints. Could it also be made in Illinois, the next state over?

And these people, whether what the Illinois militia did was right or wrong, basically waged war on their neighbours and coopted State and possibly Federal property to do it.

The Church had been living peacefully in Illinois since they immigrated en masse from Missouri. During the 1838 war there, the main offensive actions were taken by the Danites, a secret society comprised of fundamentalist, fanatic LDS who went outside of the bounds of the Church hierarchy to punish dissenters and anti-Mormon vigilantes. There were some pillaging by Mormons, and the burning of townships, but this was only after the same had been done to their own homes. It was an escalating conflict between Mormons and anti-Mormons in which both matched the other in their actions.

Now, by 1844, the Danites were long gone and the Church had make their stance against them clear. Even before 1844 there was talk of moving west, and if the Nauvoo Legion was ordered to defend the city, it would be a purely defensive action, probably followed by an earlier evacuation across the Mississippi and state lines to avoid a civil war. The LDS wouldn't have fought tooth and nail for that land right down to the last man. If anything, there would probably be a truce declared after initial hostilities to allow for such an evacuation.

[MacCaulay]

Originally Posted by Hnau

The Church had been living peacefully in Illinois since they immigrated en masse from Missouri. During the 1838 war there, the main offensive actions were taken by the Danites, a secret society comprised of fundamentalist, fanatic LDS who went outside of the bounds of the Church hierarchy to punish dissenters and anti-Mormon vigilantes. There were some pillaging by Mormons, and the burning of townships, but this was only after the same had been done to their own homes. It was an escalating conflict between Mormons and anti-Mormons in which both matched the other in their actions.

Now, by 1844, the Danites were long gone and the Church had make their stance against them clear. Even before 1844 there was talk of moving west, and if the Nauvoo Legion was ordered to defend the city, it would be a purely defensive action, probably followed by an earlier evacuation across the Mississippi and state lines to avoid a civil war. The LDS wouldn't have fought tooth and nail for that land right down to the last man. If anything, there would probably be a truce declared after initial hostilities to allow for such an evacuation.

I think you took my quote out of context. I was putting it in the context of: If the Nauvoo Legion had actually taken up arms, then this would have been the case.

Not: This was the case before hand.

[Hnau]

Oh, right, my bad. Still, and I am probably the most biased guy here being LDS myself, I would think they would hold down Nauvoo while evacuating all Illinois Mormon settlements across the Mississippi. No more than a few hundred killed on each side. The Mormon Exodus begins earlier, and Joseph Smith lives on. No martyr effect... but no succession crisis either.

[Solomaxwell6]

Originally Posted by Hnau

Oh, right, my bad. Still, and I am probably the most biased guy here being LDS myself, I would think they would hold down Nauvoo while evacuating all Illinois Mormon settlements across the Mississippi. No more than a few hundred killed on each side. The Mormon Exodus begins earlier, and Joseph Smith lives on. No martyr effect... but no succession crisis either.

I don't think it'd be that easy. If we're talking about the Illinois militia and whatever other roaming bands are in the area (most of which absolutely hated the Mormons), you're going to have Nauvoo reasonably surrounded. Remember, pretty much every other settlement in the area was anti-Mormon, and many of them are going to be contributing men and arms to the effort. If Nauvoo is nearly surrounded, it's not exactly going to be easy for tens of thousands of people (many of whom would be civilians) to bust their way out. There are absolutely horrid logistical problems, and if the now blooded local militias try to chase after them, they're going to be able to do a huge amount of damage.

[Highlander]

So how hard would it be for a "Deseret" to pop up in Illinois, or even Missouri?

[Hnau]

I don't think it'd be that easy. If we're talking about the Illinois militia and whatever other roaming bands are in the area (most of which absolutely hated the Mormons), you're going to have Nauvoo reasonably surrounded. Remember, pretty much every other settlement in the area was anti-Mormon, and many of them are going to be contributing men and arms to the effort. If Nauvoo is nearly surrounded, it's not exactly going to be easy for tens of thousands of people (many of whom would be civilians) to bust their way out. There are absolutely horrid logistical problems, and if the now blooded local militias try to chase after them, they're going to be able to do a huge amount of damage.

It wasn't just Nauvoo that was LDS, at the time. There were Mormon settlements on both sides of the river, and throughout that southwest corner of Illinois. They wouldn't be entirely surrounded. On the Iowa side of the river, there was no serious anti-Mormon force, otherwise we would have records of them. I doubt that the government of Illinois would whip up a huge war effort if the enemy was fleeing to Iowa, they'd just want to hasten the process and push us out. The militias could be held off by the Nauvoo Legion... the anti-Mormon militias were just rural farmers and townspeople, while Nauvoo at the time sustained an LDS population nearly as large as Chicago. That's a lot of men that can be conscripted into service to defend their families until they were safely across the Mississippi. In Iowa, they'd be totally safe from mob activity.

[Troyer IV]

Originally Posted by Hnau

Oh, right, my bad. Still, and I am probably the most biased guy here being LDS myself, I would think they would hold down Nauvoo while evacuating all Illinois Mormon settlements across the Mississippi. No more than a few hundred killed on each side. The Mormon Exodus begins earlier, and Joseph Smith lives on. No martyr effect... but no succession crisis either.

Maybe 2nd most biased, though you did beat me to the punch. I'm no longer practicing (or believing), but was raised in the church and have nothing but the utmost respect for the industrious early Mormons.

In 1857-58, the Nauvoo Legion blockaded two mountain passes into Utah against (later General) Johnston and the US army detachment under his command. (This is when I expected the PoD to take place.)

[Hnau]

In 1857-58, the Nauvoo Legion blockaded two mountain passes into Utah against (later General) Johnston and the US army detachment under his command. (This is when I expected the PoD to take place.)

Reminds me of the one timeline that was written where John Browning invented an early Gatling gun just before the Utah War. That was cool, though I don't know where you'd find it.

Maybe 2nd most biased, though you did beat me to the punch. I'm no longer practicing (or believing), but was raised in the church and have nothing but the utmost respect for the industrious early Mormons.

Well met. I'm going on a mission to Brazil in a month.

[Troyer IV]

Originally Posted by Hnau

Reminds me of the one timeline that was written where John Browning invented an early Gatling gun just before the Utah War. That was cool, though I don't know where you'd find it.



Well met. I'm going on a mission to Brazil in a month.

No kidding? A buddy of mine was there on his mission a few years ago (he's 25 or 26 now, I forget). You'll be fluent in Portuguese in no time. And don't drink the water.

P.S. Also the Brazilian honeys are gorgeous, so avoid temptation.