French Revoltuion PODs

I don't know much about the French Revolution, but I have two ideas for PODs.
1.Britan intervenes in the Revoltion, invading and such. No idea beyond that.
2.The Frecnh Revolution is crushed, or never happens. After the Communist Manifesto is published, the peasants try again and create a Communist France. The French monarchy flees to either the New World or Luxembourg.
So, are these at all plausible or intersting?

Errh

Why Britain ? Not the more powerfull state at the time, nor the more absolute monarchy. So I think Austria or Spain, as they have strong ties with France in 1789, would have been more likely to go on.

Yes, a crushed revolution is not a no-no, but Communism in 1789 !

Why new world ? French Monarchy hold nothing there in 1789, and anyways the new wolrd was utterly third world you know, and a republic, not really something a Monarch want to see when fliying from a revolution...

Luxembourg in 1789 ?

catboy637 said:

I don't know much about the French Revolution, but I have two ideas for PODs.
1.Britan intervenes in the Revoltion, invading and such. No idea beyond that.
2.The Frecnh Revolution is crushed, or never happens. After the Communist Manifesto is published, the peasants try again and create a Communist France. The French monarchy flees to either the New World or Luxembourg.
So, are these at all plausible or intersting?

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1. There's no reason for the British to get involved in French affairs immediatly. They'd rather let the internal chaos grow and then strike - as per OTL.
2. This sounds ASBish to me. First, Marx has drawn a fair amount of inspiration in the Revolution (esp. the Jacobin dictatorship). Second, the Manifesto appealed mostly to the urban proletariate. Third, the uprising peasants would rather go for repartition of the lands (not their socialization) and abolition of duties and privilegies. And last, but not the least, why on earth should the royal house flee to New World (no French possessions, except Antilles and Guiana) or to Luxembourg (likely to be crushed in an upcoming war). Britain is more sound choice (proven IOTL by Charles X and Louis-Philippe) if you want to be left alone, some German major (like Koblentz OTL) is suited better to prepare a retaliating strike.

As for more PODs, in my opinion, the period is crawling with them - dismission of Necker, dissent at the Estates-General, storming of the Bastille, march to Versailles, and so on, just name it.

My favourite one is about the coup of 18 Fructidor V . If there were no proofs of a Royalist plot, Barras would have remained in the moderate camp, and the counter-coup that paved the way to the 18 Brumaire would have been butterflied away. As a result, France would have some chances to become a 'normal' parliamentary Republic much earlier than IOTL.

Kammada said:

1. There's no reason for the British to get involved in French affairs immediatly. They'd rather let the internal chaos grow and then strike - as per OTL.

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Have George IV on the throne in 1786 (after lunatic Margaret Nicholson successfully stabs George III, this time with a real knife). He's already some 300,000 pounds in debt, and now he's gonna need another 250,000 or so for a lavish coronation. He'll have to borrow it from the Duke of Orleans, who will probably expect him to intervene against the Revolution (or at least evac him and his family during the Terror)

vended said:

Errh

Why Britain ? Not the more powerfull state at the time, nor the more absolute monarchy. So I think Austria or Spain, as they have strong ties with France in 1789, would have been more likely to go on.

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Austria and Prussia were both content to sit on their arse's because of the The Declaration of Pillnitz. Which epicly failed. Britain was still bitter of revolutions because of the American Revolution.

catboy637 said:

I don't know much about the French Revolution, but I have two ideas for PODs.
1.Britan intervenes in the Revoltion, invading and such. No idea beyond that.

Click to expand...

At first many in Britain thought the revolution represented British Liberty (hurrah!) overthrowing Evil Frog Absolutism. Most of the worry came from people wondering whether France as a constitutional monarchy would reach its full potential and relegate Britain to second-class.

We intervened in 1793, the second year of war, because of the radicalisation of the revolution into a movement to destroy traditional society (represented by the execution of the king) and because in 1792 the French forces had many successes and looked rather menacing.

Intervening before then wouldn't be plausible with OTL's Britain.

catboy637 said:

2.The Frecnh Revolution is crushed, or never happens. After the Communist Manifesto is published, the peasants try again and create a Communist France. The French monarchy flees to either the New World or Luxembourg.

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The revolution was an outgrowth of the societal pressures of one particular time, place, and system. That's not to say it was inevitable, merely that you need a valid explanation to avoid it.

However, one can't just hold off the revolution until 1848. The Bourbon regime will change. Society will change drastically because of industrialisation, which was the origin of communism anyway. Karl Marx will probably be afflicted by butterflies. Somebody else will codify the growing discontent of the urban proletariat in a plan of action, and given how doctrinal communism is that in itself has major butterflies.

The French peasantry are traditionally very conservative. Look at the Vendee. In 1848, when the Manifesto came out, it was the rural vote that catapulted Louis Napoleon into the presidency.

Anyway, Luxembourg in 1792 was a part of the Austrian Netherlands within the Holy Roman Empire and not distinct from any other part of Germany.

catboy637 said:

So, are these at all plausible or intersting?

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Sorry, but no, no.

A communist-style (although the name had not been coined yet) regiem could rise following the French revolution if in some way Gracchus Babeuf can be brought to power without changing his radical views... Maybe by having the army more able to intervene before his arrest in the Conspiracy of Equals

I mean, the first line of one of his revolutionary pamphlets was 'Nature has given every man the right to the enjoyment of an equal share of all property'.

Thanks for the thogfuhts, they were intersting. This thread is now pouintless.

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