Peshawar Lancers Redux: North America

[Claudius]

Originally Posted by chris N

I was wondering what happen to General Sherman's brother , who was the Senior US Senator from OHIO and a powerful member of the US Senate and the Republican party?

Unfortunately for him, he was serving in the US Senate when the Big Wave hit

[Strategos' Risk]

Does anyone think after a while I (or somebody who wants to bother to fulfill the task) should copy and paste some of the semi-"finalized" posts from these threads into another thread to represent our actual works and decisions regarding the project, as opposed to just discussion? Claudius and Shadow Knight's U.S. posts seem largely uncontested.

[Shadow Knight]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

Does anyone think after a while I (or somebody who wants to bother to fulfill the task) should copy and paste some of the semi-"finalized" posts from these threads into another thread to represent our actual works and decisions regarding the project, as opposed to just discussion? Claudius and Shadow Knight's U.S. posts seem largely uncontested.

Probably. Why not post it in the original thread or a new one that compiles all the completed threads. Well if I can nominate someone then I nominate you as you seem to be the general PL redux threads monitor.

[Strategos' Risk]

Yeah sure I'll do that, it will be a long process but I can work at it in pieces. Also, if you and Claudius had revised any of the material since they've been originally posted (a lot of comments occur after segments are posted, it's possibly that there may be new edits), please PM me with them. Otherwise I'm just going to copy + paste the sections in this thread without bothering to make edits.

[Shadow Knight]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

Yeah sure I'll do that, it will be a long process but I can work at it in pieces. Also, if you and Claudius had revised any of the material since they've been originally posted (a lot of comments occur after segments are posted, it's possibly that there may be new edits), please PM me with them. Otherwise I'm just going to copy + paste the sections in this thread without bothering to make edits.

No comments other than you should probably post my 'impact' post first as it details the comet impacts that should be common from all the threads POV.

[chris N]

What of Rutherford B Hayes,Benjamin Harrison Congressman McKinley?

[Claudius]

Originally Posted by chris N

What of Rutherford B Hayes,Benjamin Harrison Congressman McKinley?

Harrison was President, and was killed by the tsunami that hit D.C., as was Rep. William McKinley. Harrison is a private citizen in Indiana and may be alive, if some accident hasn't befallen him in the troubles of the time

[chris N]

Claudius, What about Teddy Roosevelt . I believe that he was out west at this time so he might well have survived. There is also the question will there be an election in 1880. If one is held then we might have a legitimate President rather than an acting one.

It might be a good Idea to seek out two of the former Confederate military leaders and perhaps commission General James Longstreet and Joseph Wheeler as Generals in the United States Army in charge of reconstruction of the damaged parts of the south. Both might also be willing to serve in the event of a conflict with Mexico ( remember Wheeler was commisioned as a Major General in 1898 by President McKinley ). Another Military man to look out for would be Colonel Nelson Miles as well as Colonel Mackenzie .

[Claudius]

Yeah, I thought of Theodore R. (He hated being called Teddy BTW and let people know it!) Unfortunately in 1878 he was a student at Harvard and would have been caught in the deluge. Still, one might always come up with a reason to skip school...

[Polish Eagle]

Originally Posted by Claudius

Yeah, I thought of Theodore R. (He hated being called Teddy BTW and let people know it!) Unfortunately in 1878 he was a student at Harvard and would have been caught in the deluge. Still, one might always come up for a reason to skip school...

[snorts] You really think a mere asteroid impact would kill Theodore Roosevelt? He'd probably just rip a huge wall off a building and use it as a shield.

In all seriousness, keep him alive! If you kill TR, horrible things will happen!

[Shadow Knight]

Originally Posted by Claudius

Yeah, I thought of Theodore R. (He hated being called Teddy BTW and let people know it!) Unfortunately in 1878 he was a student at Harvard and would have been caught in the deluge. Still, one might always come up for a reason to skip school...

Naw TR just clung to a tree while screaming at the wave and behold the wave broke like deluge parted just as Moses parted the Red Sea to ensure TR's safety. Yeah he is that awesome.

[Jord839]

Originally Posted by Polish Eagle

In all seriousness, keep him alive! If you kill TR, horrible things will happen!

Well, I'd say plenty of horrible things have happened already...

[Kevin Renner]

Originally Posted by Claudius

Here's a start, I welcome comments.

October 3,1878 A series of cometary or asteroidal fragments struck the earth over a period of 12 hours. The first impact was close to the southern Moscow with an impact of 300 megatons. Further impacts in the 100 to 300 megaton range impacted across Europe as far west as France. By far the largest impact struck in the western Atlantic Ocean . The size of the impact is not clearly known even to this day, but based on the resultant effects, an energy of no less than 800 megatons seems likely. The impact took place about 600 miles east of Baltimore, Maryland

For a while I have been writing up a history of the Body that strike in October 1878. I still like the idea of a Rubble Pile asteriod. But what is going to cause it to be spread out enough to cause the wide spread impacts? The only way I can come up with a close aproach to a large body in the solar system. But the problem comes from if the body is one of the inner planets or even Jupiter then the fragments are going to be spead out the damn place by the time Earth blunders into the Body's path. The only object I can think of that works is the Moon. But there is a problem. The Moon was in its 1st quarter on October 2, 1878. That puts the Moon about 10 degrees off of the Earths orbital path on the 3rd. There is no way in hell that an asteriod is going to be able to make a close approach to the Moon and hit the Earth with that geometry unless it is in a retrograde orbit.Are there any asteriods with retrograde orbits in the inner solar system? I haven't found any. Why don't we change the date of the impact to some time later in the month. By then the Moon will be in a trailing position that would allow an asteriod to make a close aproach, maybe even just missing the surface. The tidal effects of such a pass should be enough to overcome the weak gravitational field of the rubble pilespreading the fragments out enough to stike the Earth. If the Body passes the Moon at 40mps then the 235,000 miles between the Earth and the Moon would be crossed in roughly 98 minutes. This might be enough to spread to the impacts. Especially if the Body does not strike dead center but comes in at a shallow angle. If the impacts are east to west then it seems to emply a strike at night unless the body is in a quite eccentric orbit ala 1995CR

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/l...ollisions.html

[Shadow Knight]

Originally Posted by Kevin Renner

For a while I have been writing up a history of the Body that strike in October 1878. I still like the idea of a Rubble Pile asteriod. But what is going to cause it to be spread out enough to cause the wide spread impacts? The only way I can come up with a close aproach to a large body in the solar system. But the problem comes from if the body is one of the inner planets or even Jupiter then the fragments are going to be spead out the damn place by the time Earth blunders into the Body's path. The only object I can think of that works is the Moon. But there is a problem. The Moon was in its 1st quarter on October 2, 1878. That puts the Moon about 10 degrees off of the Earths orbital path on the 3rd. There is no way in hell that an asteriod is going to be able to make a close approach to the Moon and hit the Earth with that geometry unless it is in a retrograde orbit.Are there any asteriods with retrograde orbits in the inner solar system? I haven't found any. Why don't we change the date of the impact to some time later in the month. By then the Moon will be in a trailing position that would allow an asteriod to make a close aproach, maybe even just missing the surface. The tidal effects of such a pass should be enough to overcome the weak gravitational field of the rubble pilespreading the fragments out enough to stike the Earth. If the Body passes the Moon at 40mps then the 235,000 miles between the Earth and the Moon would be crossed in roughly 98 minutes. This might be enough to spread to the impacts. Especially if the Body does not strike dead center but comes in at a shallow angle. If the impacts are east to west then it seems to emply a strike at night unless the body is in a quite eccentric orbit ala 1995CR

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/l...ollisions.html

See page 8 of this thread for the fragment hit that I wrote that was pretty much accepted. I figure it was a comet of certain size to allow humans to live that had a weak center that allowed it to break up. Then as you say it came in at a shallower angle and at night.

[Claudius]

Comets definitely fit the scenario better. Non-homgenous balls of ice, gravel and volatiles. and since they may be kicked into the inner solar system by planetary or even stellar gravitational effects there is no reason why they can't come in retrograde. Besides, Stirling specifically mentions a comet or spray of comets in PL.

By the way, an excellent novelistic account of the effects of a cometary collision is Lucifer's Hammer by Niven and Pournelle back in the mid '70's and still in print

[Claudius]

OK. You want T.R., you got T.R. Actually, thinking about it, a great character to keep around.

October 5, 1878

In Pittsfield, Massachusetts, three young men arrived at the railroad station in the back of a farmer’s wagon. One, a stocky, muscular fellow, had a bandage wrapped around his head and bruises on his face and arms. The three, Alan Parker, George Leyton, and Theodore Roosevelt were all friends from Harvard and had at Roosevelt’s suggestion gone for a “ramble” in the Berkshire Mountains the previous weekend. While climbing a steep slope, a foothold that Roosevelt had put his weight on gave way, and he fell ten feet to the rocks below. Taken to a local home, Roosevelt lay dazed and semi-conscious for two days. The country doctor his friends had summoned diagnosed concussion and recommended a week’s bed rest. The accident, and the location of the house in a narrow river valley doubtless saved the three men’s lives. Suddenly, on the night of October 3, the house had been shaken by what seemed to be an earthquake. accompanied by a glare in the eastern sky that for a few minutes had far outshone the sun. The house, built with thick stone walls just after the Revolution, withstood the shock well, with only the loss of all its windows and much of the roof while nearby structures were demolished. By morning, the sky had turned pitch black and fierce winds and violent lightning storms had begun. Alarmed, Roosevelt and his friends left later that day for the town.

Pittsfield had not fared well. Every building was severely damaged, even most of the newer brick-built structures had collapsed. Numerous fires had broken out. At least half the population had been killed outright and the majority of the survivors were injured, many severely. A feeling of almost panic grasped the town, made worse by the sudden loss of telegraph service. The noon train from Springfield did not arrive. Although no one knew it at that moment, no train would ever arrive from Springfield.

The three friends, whose greatest concern until then had been how to explain their absence to their Professors began to realize that some profound change had taken place in the comfortable world that they were familiar with.

[chris N]

Claudius, Cheers with the survival of TR there is hope that he could help to shape the nation.

The Big question is will there be a Presidential election in 1880 as required by the Constitution? It might be the only way to defuse the Military vs the acting President Reed conflict.

[Ephraim Ben Raphael]

August 10, 1880

"Manumission of all slaves, parliamentary elections to be held within ten years including representatives from Cuba, and equal rights for all Cuban born citizens. Is that all?" "Yes your majesty." Maximo Gomez said hesitantly. Alfonso XII was not entirely happy about this addition to his plans, but he was glad that Campos had talked him into it. Not to mention that manumission of slaves was an empty promise with less than a hundred still in bondage, parliamentary elections made sense if his seat of power was going to stay in the New World, and any children his loyalists had would be Cuban born by virtue of all the loyalists being in Cuba. Campos first suggestion upon being made Prime Minister had been the inclusion of Gomez in their plans. This way he could actually have some influence on the actions of the Mexican rebels, rather than merely giving them the guns and hoping. Of course getting the last breathing rebel leader from the Ten Year's War out of Cuba was only a bonus. Of course. "If I do these things, and I see no reason not to do these things, then you will do as I require." Alfonso was not asking a question. "That I will my King, but please know that while I might sympathize with revolutionaries in Mexico, my cause was and always will be Cuban freedom." Gomez told him. "I will help them, but I cannot view this as any more than a simple mission; their cause is not mine." "Look at it this way." Campos broke in. "By fighting for Mexican freedom you are ensuring Cuban liberty." He had been a good choice to replace Cánovas, Alfonso told himself. "I must show you the new tools of your trade." The King told Gomez. "Come with me."

Although Gomez had already been told about the arms he still gave the American weapons and ammunition a thorough going over. They had all come from the armoury of the USS Lancaster. The flagship of the American European Squadron had been seized when the ship tried to pass through the strait of Gibraltar. "These guns are very good!" Gomez told his sovereign. "But they are very little. Are there any more?" Alfonso nodded to General Cienfuegos. The new Great General of the Army had voiced heated objections to dealing with a former rebel, but he was as loyal as could be found anywhere (if a bit bloodthirsty at times). "Your majesty we have some French arms taken from an arsenal in Hispaniola. Everything else is of Spanish make." He pointedly did not look at Gomez. "Thank you my king, my Lord, General." Gomez bowed. "I will carry out your instruction to the best of my ability."

When he was gone (to board a ship which was to take him to an Isolated spot on the Mexican coast) Campos addressed Alfonso. "We may have to change your plan again, the situation in terms of food is becoming intolerable. We may have to take Diaz's offer, at least until events come to fruition." The King swore. "I had hoped to avoid such measures. There is no other way?" "None my King." Campos bowed as he took his leave. "But we will drive the Mexican back in any case."

The rebels had been wary at first of Gomez, but he had a good reputation from the Ten Year's War, and the guns were enough to make him welcome amid the few disorganized rebels Mexico possessed. But while their was little active resistance, their was enough discontent that it could grow. It had only taken a week for Gomez to become at least a mid-level leader among the rebels, and only a few more to prepare for the raid.
In early Septiembre just outside the village of Valle Hermoso in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas a column of soldiers wound its way to reinforce the local garrison. Suddenly, without any warning, a volley of gunfire erupted from a nearby gully. As the soldiers tried to form up a party of maybe half their number in rebels, wielding American style naval sabers charged into them. Terrified, and disorganized, the Federales broke and were swiftly. cut down.Save for the sabers it was a textbook machete charge, if of course Maximo Gomez had bothered to write down the tactic he invented in a textbook. But the sound of battle had drawn soldiers stationed in the village and cavalry charged out. The rebels (former Juaristsas for the most part, and anti-reelectionists) fled, abandoning their dead, quickly disappearing into the northern desert. The raid would be reported to Mexico City, as would the French and American arms used in the attack.

Note: Yes I know that the USS Lancaster was not in the European squadron at the time of the Fall (what my Spanish exiles have taken to calling the Wave since the tsunamis were the most noticable part of it for them), but until I can identify a single ship that was, I am forced to use this one.

[Claudius]

A possibility is the Steam Sloop Vandalia ( 8 guns) which served in the European Squadron at that time and once hosted U.S Grant. Your rebels better watch their step. Diaz had very tight political control and was as ruthless as he needed to be to stay in power.

[Shadow Knight]

Originally Posted by Claudius

A possibility is the Steam Sloop Vandalia ( 8 guns) which served in the European Squadron at that time and once hosted U.S Grant. Your rebels better watch their step. Diaz had very tight political control and was as ruthless as he needed to be to stay in power.

Even still I'm not sure that will go over well with the Americans if they find out Spain/Cuba was responsible for seizing and American warship. Not that are in a position to do much about it...and an outside cause for conflict does much to unify an divided country.