AH Challenge: Let's make a realistic Code Geass timeline!

[MarshalBraginsky]

Originally Posted by Libertad

Just make sure that your title has keywords that are always being typed in the search bar... so it could be seen by many... for example... Your thread..."The Bear Migrates to the Pacific".... while the title is great... You forgot to put in keywords.... like Russia or anything... so it could get more views... as well as responses... So I advised that you edited your titles... I think in your Bear thread... You have to go to the admin... while here... I'm not sure what title you can put in...

Why did you want to trade Borneo for New Guinea... which is harder to hold... especially with how isolated it looked to the rest of the world... with its jungles and tribes... Borneo is far more better option... and it is also a gateway for Russia to enter into the Philippine islands as well... though Borneo could enter into the Roman Empire as well... just give them southern India and Ceylon... and you have an ally to get into the Philippines... USA is far better in having New Guinea... though I'm having second thoughts about USA right now... since there's the Roman Empire around here... In my timeline, it's fine..., but here with a strong Roman Empire... I'm not sure... Your timeline is meant to be a Byzantine/Russia wank right?? Australia could easily fall Roman... for me... I don't know...

And also what section are you talking about...? The ASB section... Yes.., Put it in the ASB section of course... But then you can also just continue here... This just became your thread 85% of the time you know... I haven't opened up with mine... Hetalia is gone...as of now... and while I'm typing here... It's always about your TL... not mine... so it's just fine by me if you can continue here... anyway... It's you that have a more radical TL... Mine is more cannon.. while at the same time... we have a common timeline in the part 1... and also sharing events in parts 2 to 4.... And my other timeline is an Ameriwank... and I could just look into Big Tex's and Eurofed's TLs for the pattern... while occasionally asking for advices... Though I'm deciding now to open up more about my TL's... to be fair to you and everybody...

We'll just have to make sure that Australia doesn't go Roman. At least it would still remain open for colonization. Fine, I'll just stick to this thread for now. Also, I've copied my TL into my word file so that I can continue to work on it until it's finalized. I can still work on it in this site, but just in case I lose it, I would still have my back up copy.

[Libertad]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

We'll just have to make sure that Australia doesn't go Roman. At least it would still remain open for colonization. Fine, I'll just stick to this thread for now. Also, I've copied my TL into my word file so that I can continue to work on it until it's finalized. I can still work on it in this site, but just in case I lose it, I would still have my back up copy.

Aha.... Ok.... That's a great idea...

Australia can still go Americanized cosmopolitan Australian then... ... while there's a Roman Empire up to Mesopotamia and the Persian Gulf in the Middle East... you have to make Persia... a Russian protectorate as a gateway to the Pacific and the Philippines... while there's a good chance for the Delhi Sultanate to act as a Roman-Russian condominium... Yap...

By the way.., Please forgive me for embarrassing myself in exposing my CG fantasies... though they're good for a fanfic story... now... I've got fanfic stories for CG up my sleeve... Hahaha!

[MarshalBraginsky]

Originally Posted by Libertad

Aha.... Ok.... That's a great idea...

Australia can still go Americanized cosmopolitan Australian then... ... while there's a Roman Empire up to Mesopotamia and the Persian Gulf in the Middle East... you have to make Persia... a Russian protectorate as a gateway to the Pacific and the Philippines... while there's a good chance for the Delhi Sultanate to act as a Roman-Russian condominium... Yap...

By the way.., Please forgive me for embarrassing myself in exposing my CG fantasies... though they're good for a fanfic story... now... I've got fanfic stories for CG up my sleeve... Hahaha!

No, that's good. Also, Persia is the gateway to the Indian Ocean, not the Pacific. The Russian gateway to the Pacific is through Korea and Manchuria. What do you mean, act as a condominium?

[Libertad]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

No, that's good. Also, Persia is the gateway to the Indian Ocean, not the Pacific. The Russian gateway to the Pacific is through Korea and Manchuria. What do you mean, act as a condominium?

Ah... Yes... I forgot...Persia is for the Indian Ocean... but it would help with securing the Straits of Malacca for the Russians and Romans alike... as it is one of the five key gateways of the world in terms of international waters...

A condominium is a territory where two or more sovereign powers agreed to rule jointly without dividing it into national zones... So the Delhi Sultanate can act like a Roman-Russian condominium... since the Romans will hold southern India and Ceylon... as in Isaac's Empire TL... though the condominium idea is mine...

[Libertad]

At least this is for my semi-cannon Holy Britannian Empire using OTL standards for statistics that most likely will be using by the CG American intelligence after the Great Merge...

Corruption Perceptions Index: 3.5 out of 10 as clean (OTL's Thailand and People's Republic of China)
Press Freedom Index: 17 out of 100 as the best (OTL's People's Republic of China)
Failed States Index: Warning
Composite Index of National Capability: Very capable (#1 in CG world but #2 after the Great Merge)
Military Expenditure: #1 in the world
Military Expenditure per capita: #1 in the world
Human Development Index (inequality adjusted): 0.418 with 1 as best (OTL's South Africa)
Quality of Life Index: 5.581 out of 10 as highest (OTL's India)
Happy Planet Index: 22.75 out of 100 as highest (OTL's Russia)
Economic ranking (inequality adjusted): Medium income developing country
Democracy Index: 3.10 out of 10 (Authoritarian regime)
Freedom Status: Not Free
Global Peace Index Status: Low- Problematic
Global Innovation Status (adjusted): Quite Good- Very Good (military), Good (consumer)
Poverty rate: 39.2% living under US$2.00 per day
Gender gap report: Very Good
Hard Power usage: Very Good
Soft Power usage: Needs Improvement

[Libertad]

I've gained an epiphany about the possibilities of this TL to be a Slavic-wank and yet Britannia could still exist using OTL patterns of history just a few hours ago.... so this is my question.... I'm sorry to tell you but...

1. Are you willing to let go of the 54 BC POD, which is a stupid POD anyway?
2. Are you willing to let go of the Russian Philippines and half-Mongolicized Russia?
3. Are you willing to let go of the Byzantine Empire TL?
4. Are you willing to start again with a new POD that should butterfly out Ivan the Terrible, while allowing Queen Elizabeth to gave birth for a son for a surviving Tudor dynasty?
5. Are you willing to allow Russia to be semi-Polonized just for it to be modernized a century earlier than Peter the Great? And then for Commonwealth Poland and Prussia to start the Industrial Revolution rather than England?

This is my proposal:

THE MOST PLAUSIBLE CODE GEASS EARTH TIMELINE with a Slavic wank

• Britannia can be made to rise out of history that is following our timeline (OTL) and fit in to the image of a Russia wank that you wanted in a POD that should butterfly out Ivan the Terrible and open the doors of a Polish-Lithuanian-Muscovite Commonwealth, bringing in the Muscovites to the eastern periphery of the "Republic of Letters", exposed it into Latin culture and then join in to the benefits of the unique Polish Golden Age.... Ripples in the Butterfly Effect would make Queen Elizabeth I bear a son as with the cannon timeline, backing up the mix of the Tudor aristocracy and the British imperial aristocrats that is in Code Geass cannon. The inevitability of the rise of Puritanism against the Tudor style monarchy that was continued by OTL's Stuarts would still lead into an alternate English Civil War, but this time it would be won by the Cavaliers. Then the Roundheads and the anti-royalists could just fled in to the American colonies where they would establish the seeds of rebellion that would culminate with the alternate American Revolution. It will succeed in my case, establishing my POD at 1774 as usual... but it will fail here in your case....
• The big difference would be with Eastern Europe because of the "Pax Polonia" since the 17th century that saw a continued Polish Golden Age and it would accelerate the exposure of the Muscovites into Western European culture and trends, like that of Italy by 100 years. It would cost a semi-Polonization process for Muscovite culture however. The Triple Commonwealth (Polish-Lithuanian-Muscovite) would then be transformed into a Polish-Russian Commonwealth through the successful formation of the Duchy of Ruthenia this time around... that would form the Orthodox Russian Union with the Tsardom of Muscovy... to counter the old Polish-Lithuanian Union and reflect the religious divide within the Commonwealth... or the Rzechspospolita as it is being called...
• This would also saw the beginnings of the evolution of the political governance of the Commonwealth. Political reforms is really necessary for this case, which could be done with some "Geass assistance" behind the scenes. The Commonwealth can then strengthen its image internationally through taking over the role as the "Defender of Christendom" against the Ottomans while it could finally enter the politics of the Holy Roman Empire through Commonwealth Prussia's possession of Brandenburg. Commonwealth boyars and explorers plus merchants would extend Russia into Siberia and North America as usual. German reunification through Commonwealth Prussia as plausible is up to debate.
• The Duchy of Courland and Semigalia made colonization efforts in Tobago and Gambia in OTL. You could make them to be more successful this time around, plus adding a possible third place for colonization.
• A strengthened Commonwealth could retain Russian America and open up into Pacific waters even more through Manchuria and Korea through manipulation of Chinese events. It can even capture Hokkaido if you want to and if it is possible. Along with these are expansions into Central Asia and Persia. Plus, slowly but surely, It could eat away Ottoman territories in Europe until it could finally capture Constantinople.
• A Vienna-Warsaw Axis can control the Holy Roman Empire through some butterflies.
• Britannian-Commonwealth animosities could be started during the alternate American Revolution with the participation of Commonwealth individuals on the side of the rebels, prolonging the rebellion and making it more costly, brutal as well as longer.
• The Age of Revolution in the cannon can then be started with an English Revolution that would spread out to the rest of Western Europe; culminating with the French Revolution and the rise of Napoleon. The English Revolution would cause the Humiliation of Edinburgh and the Passage of Tears while the Spanish and Portuguese monarchies will follow the British to the New World.
• In the confusion of the fall of the Qing and the Ming Restoration or whatever, Russia could get Sinkiang and Mongolia also.
• Then, Australia would still be British; but the Commonwealth presence will change things in Asia. Along the way, You can make it capture the Philippines.

So that's it... That's my suggestions... I can put it into even more detail... but those are the major ones... If you accepted... This is going to be your TL... and it's you that will expound it more then... since I'll have mine now...

It's even up to you... if we started changing names of people... though they will be like OTL figures in their roles..

So, that's about it... Hehehe...

I've actually got documents concerning the relations between Poland and Russia... and for their possible federalization... which many thought that could happen... if only Ivan the Terrible is not around... that is why I'm thinking that it should be left out...

This proposal is also for backing out an argument of How the CG cannon TL is totally ASB but a CG scenario could then be made to happen but at a cost for Britannia's inevitable demise... since Britannia as the cannon depicted it is just plain impossible for it to exist and its image must be modified...

Plus, technological advances can be done and advanced with this POD through making Kepler and Newton be born earlier than usual... as well as Einstein... then making technology advanced through inventions that came out earlier than usual here in OTL... Then, with "Geass" and "sakuradite" being around; let's just bring in the concept of Minovsky physics also so that the Knightmare Frames could be made possible...

OK... I'm finished... Hehehehe...

[MarshalBraginsky]

Originally Posted by Libertad

I've gained an epiphany about the possibilities of this TL to be a Slavic-wank and yet Britannia could still exist using OTL patterns of history just a few hours ago.... so this is my question.... I'm sorry to tell you but...

1. Are you willing to let go of the 54 BC POD, which is a stupid POD anyway?
2. Are you willing to let go of the Russian Philippines and half-Mongolicized Russia?
3. Are you willing to let go of the Byzantine Empire TL?
4. Are you willing to start again with a new POD that should butterfly out Ivan the Terrible, while allowing Queen Elizabeth to gave birth for a son for a surviving Tudor dynasty?
5. Are you willing to allow Russia to be semi-Polonized just for it to be modernized a century earlier than Peter the Great? And then for Commonwealth Poland and Prussia to start the Industrial Revolution rather than England?

This is my proposal:

THE MOST PLAUSIBLE CODE GEASS EARTH TIMELINE with a Slavic wank

• Britannia can be made to rise out of history that is following our timeline (OTL) and fit in to the image of a Russia wank that you wanted in a POD that should butterfly out Ivan the Terrible and open the doors of a Polish-Lithuanian-Muscovite Commonwealth, bringing in the Muscovites to the eastern periphery of the "Republic of Letters", exposed it into Latin culture and then join in to the benefits of the unique Polish Golden Age.... Ripples in the Butterfly Effect would make Queen Elizabeth I bear a son as with the cannon timeline, backing up the mix of the Tudor aristocracy and the British imperial aristocrats that is in Code Geass cannon. The inevitability of the rise of Puritanism against the Tudor style monarchy that was continued by OTL's Stuarts would still lead into an alternate English Civil War, but this time it would be won by the Cavaliers. Then the Roundheads and the anti-royalists could just fled in to the American colonies where they would establish the seeds of rebellion that would culminate with the alternate American Revolution. It will succeed in my case, establishing my POD at 1774 as usual... but it will fail here in your case....
• The big difference would be with Eastern Europe because of the "Pax Polonia" since the 17th century that saw a continued Polish Golden Age and it would accelerate the exposure of the Muscovites into Western European culture and trends, like that of Italy by 100 years. It would cost a semi-Polonization process for Muscovite culture however. The Triple Commonwealth (Polish-Lithuanian-Muscovite) would then be transformed into a Polish-Russian Commonwealth through the successful formation of the Duchy of Ruthenia this time around... that would form the Orthodox Russian Union with the Tsardom of Muscovy... to counter the old Polish-Lithuanian Union and reflect the religious divide within the Commonwealth... or the Rzechspospolita as it is being called...
• This would also saw the beginnings of the evolution of the political governance of the Commonwealth. Political reforms is really necessary for this case, which could be done with some "Geass assistance" behind the scenes. The Commonwealth can then strengthen its image internationally through taking over the role as the "Defender of Christendom" against the Ottomans while it could finally enter the politics of the Holy Roman Empire through Commonwealth Prussia's possession of Brandenburg. Commonwealth boyars and explorers plus merchants would extend Russia into Siberia and North America as usual. German reunification through Commonwealth Prussia as plausible is up to debate.
• The Duchy of Courland and Semigalia made colonization efforts in Tobago and Gambia in OTL. You could make them to be more successful this time around, plus adding a possible third place for colonization.
• A strengthened Commonwealth could retain Russian America and open up into Pacific waters even more through Manchuria and Korea through manipulation of Chinese events. It can even capture Hokkaido if you want to and if it is possible. Along with these are expansions into Central Asia and Persia. Plus, slowly but surely, It could eat away Ottoman territories in Europe until it could finally capture Constantinople.
• A Vienna-Warsaw Axis can control the Holy Roman Empire through some butterflies.
• Britannian-Commonwealth animosities could be started during the alternate American Revolution with the participation of Commonwealth individuals on the side of the rebels, prolonging the rebellion and making it more costly, brutal as well as longer.
• The Age of Revolution in the cannon can then be started with an English Revolution that would spread out to the rest of Western Europe; culminating with the French Revolution and the rise of Napoleon. The English Revolution would cause the Humiliation of Edinburgh and the Passage of Tears while the Spanish and Portuguese monarchies will follow the British to the New World.
• In the confusion of the fall of the Qing and the Ming Restoration or whatever, Russia could get Sinkiang and Mongolia also.
• Then, Australia would still be British; but the Commonwealth presence will change things in Asia. Along the way, You can make it capture the Philippines.

So that's it... That's my suggestions... I can put it into even more detail... but those are the major ones... If you accepted... This is going to be your TL... and it's you that will expound it more then... since I'll have mine now...

It's even up to you... if we started changing names of people... though they will be like OTL figures in their roles..

So, that's about it... Hehehe...

I've actually got documents concerning the relations between Poland and Russia... and for their possible federalization... which many thought that could happen... if only Ivan the Terrible is not around... that is why I'm thinking that it should be left out...

This proposal is also for backing out an argument of How the CG cannon TL is totally ASB but a CG scenario could then be made to happen but at a cost for Britannia's inevitable demise... since Britannia as the cannon depicted it is just plain impossible for it to exist and its image must be modified...

Plus, technological advances can be done and advanced with this POD through making Kepler and Newton be born earlier than usual... as well as Einstein... then making technology advanced through inventions that came out earlier than usual here in OTL... Then, with "Geass" and "sakuradite" being around; let's just bring in the concept of Minovsky physics also so that the Knightmare Frames could be made possible...

OK... I'm finished... Hehehehe...

I'm willing to let go of number one, but letting go of Russian Philippines would only make the cliche of 'ATL Philippines must either be a part of USA or Japan'. I'm not sure about letting go of the Byzantine Empire, since I tried to formulate a possible plan to combine Orthodoxy and Nestorianism, and a Polonized Russia would definitely have a negative repercussions on the Russians mainly because the Poles were Catholic and the Russians were Orthodox Christians. Although the idea seems to be plausible and the Ottoman Empire might have to replace the Byzantine Empire. If we want a Polish-Russian Commonwealth to happen, either Poland has to accept Uniate Christianity or Russia would have to accept Catholicism (the latter is out of the question, and the former seems to be implausible) A third option would be to have an Orthodox version of the Reformation Period (where they gave birth to Protestantism)

I'll take a more detailed look on that, but are there any more suggestions you can come up with? There was a reason why Russia industrialized a bit later than the Western powers. At least, there's also the talk of Eurasianism. Overall, your ideas seems to be interesting, but letting go of Russian Philippines seems to be a bit sad. It's not because of Russian prestige, but it's because I'm a Russophile myself. Although in theory it isn't a bad idea, we just gotta have a plan to make aspects of Polish culture acceptable to Russians. Remember, we're talking about a Russia that faced Polish occupation back in 1612.

I even have a better idea: we could just make the Philippines independent along with parts of OTL Malaysia and Indonesia and make it a surviving Sri Vijayan Empire a la hybrid of Sulu Sultanate, Nusantra, and Khanate of Mayi equals Khanate of Sri Vijaya. It would initially be controlled by Spain, but still retains its distinct culture. The Khanate of Sri Vijaya would be totally have the same hybrid Orthodox and Nestorian Christian culture, but it would be even tougher than the Moghul Empire. The Khanate of Sri Vijaya can become an ally of a Polish-Russian Commonwealth, with immigrants that I've mentioned to you earlier. As for the Polish-Russian Commonwealth, it would have to control non-Slav countries like Romania and Hungary at some point to connect Czech, Slovak, and South Slav lands. That will be how they can claim control of Constantinople from the Ottomans. Finally, the capital of this Polish-Russian Commonwealth is in Warsaw, right? The capital has to be on a neutral ground so neither Poland or Russia might get the advantage. Maybe Kiev or Vilnius could be the capital. When you meant it could capture the Philippines, which nation? Australia or Poland-Russia?

Moreover, would the Russians keep their Cyrillic alphabet in their writing systems? I'm not sure how Polonization of Russian culture would have affected the East Slavic peoples in general. We could have had a Russia that would resemble a giant Ukraine, or a Belarus that has gone on a rampage. I just need some input on this kind of suggestion as I've answered this with my best possible answers, but I like this kind of idea.

[MarshalBraginsky]

So in essence, OTL Philippines in this case would have to be Mongolicized or Turkicized in order to retain its indigenous identity and to resist Hispanicization while still having some parts of the country become Catholic. There was a thread called Highly Developed Philippines, and I suggested that the Philippines could be a lot stronger if it was a Nestorian Christian Mongol Khanate, with Yuan remnants fleeing from there, as well as some non-Muslim Mongols from the Il-Khanate, Chagatai and the Golden Horde. I might even think about having the Philippines become a part of the Ottoman Empire, but that's gotta have to involve a lot of Islamicization of all Philippine Islands, or keeping with their Nestorian beliefs but accepting Ottoman suzerainty while trying to keep the Spaniards away. I bet that the Philippines might even be the focus of Ottoman-Spanish rivalry in Asia or something. Of course, with the Mongol adoption of Cyrillic alphabet, the Khanate of Sri Vijaya might follow in their Mongol comrades' footsteps and do the same thing.

[Libertad]

Great suggestions my friend...,

I know you're a Russophile... but I suggest in this one that you make yourself a Slavophile... Hehehe...

When I said about capturing the Philippines... It's the Polish-Russian Commonwealth... I suggest that the capital be placed in Minsk, within the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, but halfway between Muscovy, Ruthenia and Poland... or it's a bit more neutral...

If you're intent on a Russianized Philippines, then I think this Asian POD wouldn't affect events even for a bit in eastern Europe and especially in the British Isles since it is too far away from Southeast Asia... We can even point out later on that the butterflying away of Ivan the Terrible and Commonwealth expansion is a far away ripple of 300 years to the Asian POD while the surviving Tudor dynasty as an aftermath of the Ivan butterfly effect... That's good enough...

In terms of the Polonization of Russia, Yes; I'm thinking that Russia would look like a Big Ukraine... but trust me, the Cossack rebellions of the 1840's would bring Catholicism out of Russia... Even Eastern Catholic churches would not be established within Muscovy... as part of the agreement in the political union... Private worship like the conventicle style among Catholics in the Dutch Republic would happen but public institutions... I don't think so.... While this is going to be extended into the newly formed Duchy of Ruthenia by the late 1840's for example... after the Cossacks rebelled to show their grievances to the Commonwealth government...

The Rzechspospolita is going to start the beginnings of a multinational superpower... If possible.., You can look for a way for the "pospolita" to swallow German lands besides Brandenburg and Saxony... even getting it as far as Frankfurt... so you can have access to the Channel and to the Atlantic... which would please the German citizens of the Commonwealth even more...

I'm thinking more that Russia is going to be politically Polonized... rather culturally Polonized... while Poland has all the intellectuals... the Muscovite boyars would have much pride to just let themselves be taken over by Warsaw... In fact, I'm thinking that the Polonization of Lithuanians and Ruthenians happened in OTL because the Muscovites are not there to counterbalance the more numerous Catholic Poles... so yes, they'll remain Orthodox...

Muscovy will have the Polish system of government; but political reforms must be done though to curb the power of the Catholic szlachta and the Orthodox boyars to give more power to an elective executive... that could not be the elective king... in fact... The elective king system could be used so that neighboring states like Austria can be integrated into the Rzechspospolita... something like that...

[Libertad]

I'm sure that the Cyrillic alphabet can co-exist with the Latin alphabet... but Latin is going to be the official language of the Commonwealth... Poland-Lithuania is too literate in Latin during the 17th century... and I think Latin can be written using the Cyrillic alphabet.... Besides, Latin is a neutral international language... so Polish is not going to be swallow the Lithuanian and Ruthenian languages this time around... with the Muscovites around....

[Libertad]

Making the Sri Vi Jayans last long... would affect Dutch colonization in the East Indies while at the same time.... It would not really make Spain colonize the entire part of it... I'm thinking that just parts of the Philippines is going to be Hispanized...

The Dutch Golden Age relies much on the economic profits of the Dutch East India Company... and this would also affect the presence of Deshima in Japan... So this is really going to affect European history later on... making the English Tudor POD even more plausible...

[MarshalBraginsky]

Originally Posted by Libertad

Great suggestions my friend...,

I know you're a Russophile... but I suggest in this one that you make yourself a Slavophile... Hehehe...

When I said about capturing the Philippines... It's the Polish-Russian Commonwealth... I suggest that the capital be placed in Minsk, within the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, but halfway between Muscovy, Ruthenia and Poland... or it's a bit more neutral...

If you're intent on a Russianized Philippines, then I think this Asian POD wouldn't affect events even for a bit in eastern Europe and especially in the British Isles since it is too far away from Southeast Asia... We can even point out later on that the butterflying away of Ivan the Terrible and Commonwealth expansion is a far away ripple of 300 years to the Asian POD while the surviving Tudor dynasty as an aftermath of the Ivan butterfly effect... That's good enough...

In terms of the Polonization of Russia, Yes; I'm thinking that Russia would look like a Big Ukraine... but trust me, the Cossack rebellions of the 1840's would bring Catholicism out of Russia... Even Eastern Catholic churches would not be established within Muscovy... as part of the agreement in the political union... Private worship like the conventicle style among Catholics in the Dutch Republic would happen but public institutions... I don't think so.... While this is going to be extended into the newly formed Duchy of Ruthenia by the late 1840's for example... after the Cossacks rebelled to show their grievances to the Commonwealth government...

The Rzechspospolita is going to start the beginnings of a multinational superpower... If possible.., You can look for a way for the "pospolita" to swallow German lands besides Brandenburg and Saxony... even getting it as far as Frankfurt... so you can have access to the Channel and to the Atlantic... which would please the German citizens of the Commonwealth even more...

I'm thinking more that Russia is going to be politically Polonized... rather culturally Polonized... while Poland has all the intellectuals... the Muscovite boyars would have much pride to just let themselves be taken over by Warsaw... In fact, I'm thinking that the Polonization of Lithuanians and Ruthenians happened in OTL because the Muscovites are not there to counterbalance the more numerous Catholic Poles... so yes, they'll remain Orthodox...

Muscovy will have the Polish system of government; but political reforms must be done though to curb the power of the Catholic szlachta and the Orthodox boyars to give more power to an elective executive... that could not be the elective king... in fact... The elective king system could be used so that neighboring states like Austria can be integrated into the Rzechspospolita... something like that...

That's nice, but would Latin be the official language? I'm not sure if Polish and Russian would be preserved as the languages of the Commonwealth. But wouldn't swallowing the German lands be a bit too much for the Commonwealth? I'm guessing the Commonwealth would be like the proto EU in its early stage. So Minsk would be the capital of the Commonwealth then. Maybe just Cebu and Bicol could be the Spanish colony in Asia while the rest of Sri Vijaya would have to fight off against Dutch enroachment. So if Muscovy/Russia would retain the Orthodox Church, does this mean that the Commonwealth would be like a Eurasian sized Yugoslavia then?

Latin can be kept, though ancient Greek and Old Church Slavonic should also be used in the Commonwealth to give it a more multicultural flavor. Or rather, we could have that Uniate Church like with Isaac's Empire version of Byzantine Empire, except that it would be focused in Minsk. I also think it would be better if the German states isn't integrated into the Commonwealth despite the multicultural flavor, or it'd expand too much. I'm not sure. There has to be a limit in Europe so the Commonwealth would have room to expand in Asia. Poland and Russia together, it's even better than Germany and Russia.

[Libertad]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

That's nice, but would Latin be the official language? I'm not sure if Polish and Russian would be preserved as the languages of the Commonwealth. But wouldn't swallowing the German lands be a bit too much for the Commonwealth? I'm guessing the Commonwealth would be like the proto EU in its early stage.

Of course, it would be preserved... OTL's Poland-Lithuania has Ruthenian and Polish as official languages, in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Poland respectively... Poland-Lithuania is fairly tolerant..., even of Jews... who dominated the economic and urban life of the Commonwealth along with the Protestant Germans and Uniate Armenians... And yes, the Commonwealth is pretty much a proto-EU... Well, in the condition of a powerful Poland-Lithuania-Russia.., it's not going to be a bit too much for me... Remember that Prussia is pretty much tied to it in the past... besides... Protestant Germans would pretty much tie themselves with a fairly tolerant Commonwealth rather than a Catholic Austria...

[MarshalBraginsky]

Originally Posted by Libertad

Of course, it would be preserved... OTL's Poland-Lithuania has Ruthenian and Polish as official languages, in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Poland respectively... Poland-Lithuania is fairly tolerant..., even of Jews... who dominated the economic and urban life of the Commonwealth along with the Protestant Germans and Uniate Armenians... And yes, the Commonwealth is pretty much a proto-EU... Well, in the condition of a powerful Poland-Lithuania-Russia.., it's not going to be a bit too much for me... Remember that Prussia is pretty much tied to it in the past... besides... Protestant Germans would pretty much tie themselves with a fairly tolerant Commonwealth rather than a Catholic Austria...

So the expanded Commonwealth would have multiple official languages. Would the Scandinavians have to be accepted into the Commonwealth or remain independent? So we would assume that the ex-Ottoman Christian states would be absorbed into the Commonwealth as well. I'm not sure if this might turn into a Polishwank or something.

[Libertad]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

That's nice, but would Latin be the official language? I'm not sure if Polish and Russian would be preserved as the languages of the Commonwealth. But wouldn't swallowing the German lands be a bit too much for the Commonwealth? I'm guessing the Commonwealth would be like the proto EU in its early stage. So Minsk would be the capital of the Commonwealth then. Maybe just Cebu and Bicol could be the Spanish colony in Asia while the rest of Sri Vijaya would have to fight off against Dutch enroachment. So if Muscovy/Russia would retain the Orthodox Church, does this mean that the Commonwealth would be like a Eurasian sized Yugoslavia then?

Latin can be kept, though ancient Greek and Old Church Slavonic should also be used in the Commonwealth to give it a more multicultural flavor. Or rather, we could have that Uniate Church like with Isaac's Empire version of Byzantine Empire, except that it would be focused in Minsk. I also think it would be better if the German states isn't integrated into the Commonwealth despite the multicultural flavor, or it'd expand too much. I'm not sure. There has to be a limit in Europe so the Commonwealth would have room to expand in Asia. Poland and Russia together, it's even better than Germany and Russia.

Well, Are you afraid that the Yugoslav Wars is going to happen in the Commonwealth? For what I know..., Yugoslavia is an artificial Communist creation... while the Commonwealth is more real with itself... besides... the Polish-Lithuanian Union has been around for 200 years before Muscovy enters... And just like you said, its a proto-EU... Did EU became Yugoslavia? ... The Uniate Church can happen but it would be limited within Poland-Lithuania at first, before it gained minor adherents within Russia... as Russia opened itself to greater religious toleration... And Prussia has been part of the Commonwealth... At least Royal and Ducal Prussia... And Ducal Prussia has Brandenburg... while OTL's Poland-Lithuania has a history with electing Saxon kings... It wouldn't bee much of an overstretch if it is just a limited union or arrangement... Besides Russia would still have Moscow as its territorial capital... and it has much power within the constitutional structure within the Commonwealth... like an EU member state...

[Libertad]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

So the expanded Commonwealth would have multiple official languages. Would the Scandinavians have to be accepted into the Commonwealth or remain independent? So we would assume that the ex-Ottoman Christian states would be absorbed into the Commonwealth as well. I'm not sure if this might turn into a Polishwank or something.

Russia-wank...with strong Polish sub-wank... given that the Christian communities of the Ottomans are Orthodox... not Catholics.... so the Russian Union is going to swallow Eastern Europe and Constantinople... The Protestant Swedes are not going to join in... Finland and Estonia can be taken away from them though... I'm not sure about Denmark.. That's why I'm advocating expansion into northern Germany at least... then just have Austria get the rest of Germany... Germany will be around... under Commonwealth Prussia... I'm sure along the way..., Royal Prussia could be given back to Ducal Prussia so that a Commonwealth Prussia-Brandenburg can be formed... with its capital at the highly prosperous Danzig though... not in Berlin.... The Commonwealth king can even reestablish the Teutonic Knights as his royal guard... or something... or a division of the army...

[MarshalBraginsky]

Wow, so I guess Russia opening itself to religious tolerance. Basically it's taking a page out of the Mongol Empire's religious tolerance policy. I'm kinda impressed with the power structure for the Commonwealth. Latvia and Lithuania are surely a part of the Commonwealth for sure. Whoa, I guess the colonization of Siberia is going to be explosive with so many Commonwealth immigrants.

Northern Germany is Protestant, right? So it's possible that Northern Germany could join the Commonwealth. Denmark can just remain a part of the Scandinavian Union. The Teutonic Knights as the royal guard would only remain in Prussia because they're hated in Poland-Lithuania, and especially in Russia (1242 invasion of Pskov).

EU didn't become Yugoslavia. I said it might collapse the same way Yugoslavia did, but with religious tolerance the official policy, I guess it would be the European version of the Mongol Empire. Another legacy the Russians would acquire from the Mongols. Heck, it would be a lot better if the Uniate Church had also absorbed Nestorianism (or it can only be limited to Asia).

[Libertad]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

Wow, so I guess Russia opening itself to religious tolerance. Basically it's taking a page out of the Mongol Empire's religious tolerance policy. I'm kinda impressed with the power structure for the Commonwealth. Latvia and Lithuania are surely a part of the Commonwealth for sure. Whoa, I guess the colonization of Siberia is going to be explosive with so many Commonwealth immigrants.

Northern Germany is Protestant, right? So it's possible that Northern Germany could join the Commonwealth. Denmark can just remain a part of the Scandinavian Union. The Teutonic Knights as the royal guard would only remain in Prussia because they're hated in Poland-Lithuania, and especially in Russia (1242 invasion of Pskov).

EU didn't become Yugoslavia. I said it might collapse the same way Yugoslavia did, but with religious tolerance the official policy, I guess it would be the European version of the Mongol Empire. Another legacy the Russians would acquire from the Mongols. Heck, it would be a lot better if the Uniate Church had also absorbed Nestorianism (or it can only be limited to Asia).

It can absorb Nestorianism along the way..., in a form of a Uniate-Nestorian Church somehow... though traditional Nestorians would still be more numerous.... but most likely by the time the Commonwealth reaches Persia... and yes, northern Germany is Protestant... and that's what I'm thinking about the Teutonic Knights... That's why there's a room for greater expansion in Asia... because there's that Poland-Lithuania factor that advanced Russia by a century more than it did in OTL....

[MarshalBraginsky]

Originally Posted by Libertad

It can absorb Nestorianism along the way..., in a form of a Uniate-Nestorian Church somehow... though traditional Nestorians would still be more numerous.... but most likely by the time the Commonwealth reaches Persia... and yes, northern Germany is Protestant... and that's what I'm thinking about the Teutonic Knights... That's why there's a room for greater expansion in Asia... because there's that Poland-Lithuania factor that advanced Russia by a century more than it did in OTL....

Wait a minute, so the Commonwealth absorbs Persia as well? And Northern Germany would be an independent state. So an Industrial Revolution would have made the Commonwealth one hell of a rich empire. And it could even try to gain a Pacific colony, right? What would have happened to states like Slovenia and Croatia since they're Slavic states but Catholic? Same question applies to Cezchoslovakia.

[Libertad]

Originally Posted by Sibirskaya

Wait a minute, so the Commonwealth absorbs Persia as well? And Northern Germany would be an independent state. So an Industrial Revolution would have made the Commonwealth one hell of a rich empire. And it could even try to gain a Pacific colony, right? What would have happened to states like Slovenia and Croatia since they're Slavic states but Catholic? Same question applies to Cezchoslovakia.

Yes..., If OTL's Russia gets close into doing that... why not a Commonwealth Russia? And Northern Germany is going to join the pospolita as well... because of Prussia.... which is part of the Commonwealth like I've said... Slovenia and Croatia? That's for you to decide... But I'm you, I'd rather have them as well... It wouldn't hurt that much... if they became like Lithuania or Livonia as separate Commonwealth entities... but tied to Russia... or if you'll want Bohemia... then have it be part of Poland-Lithuania... a Pacific colony? Sri Vi Jaya... that's all I know... Sibirskaya... You're making a Latin-Russian centuries here... Latin would be saved as an international language of diplomacy and education... this time around... rather than be supplanted by French... Russia would be far more influential within the Commonwealth due to its sheer size.... so it's not a Polish-wank... it's still a Russia-wank...