Assuming that Germany was not in the picture [It could be a war V the Soviet Union, a Nazi-Army civil war, anything] what would have been the likely result of a war between Britain and Italy in the early 1940s? It could be over a border dispute betwen Ethiopia and Kenya, British Somaliland or Anglo-Egyptian Sudan.
Britain V Italy 1941
- Thread starter Yellmic Wigwawa
- Start date
I don’t see anything good for Italy in this Scenario.
KO! Britain wins in the beginning of the Second round
KO! Britain wins in the beginning of the Second round
JHPier said:
Did you miss the part which said "Assume Germany is not in the picture"?
Redbeard
Banned
UK's industrial capacity was some 4-5 times that of Italy and if adding the Commonwealth it will be even more pronounced and providing an inexaustible manpower source too.
Italy's only chance would be a disarmed UK not intervening like in 1935 (there wasn't even reserve shells for the navy), but by 1941 UK outproduced Italy, Germany and Japan combined in all vital aspects.
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
Italy's only chance would be a disarmed UK not intervening like in 1935 (there wasn't even reserve shells for the navy), but by 1941 UK outproduced Italy, Germany and Japan combined in all vital aspects.
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
Yellmic Wigwawa said:
You can't knock Germany out of the scenario completely--with the Anschluss, it's right on the Italian border.
POD: A non-Nazi right-wing regime takes power in Germany. As a result, WWII as we know it does not happen. A British-Italian war (with others jumping in if they can get some loot) might be one of the many "small wars" of the 1940s (along with German wars in Czechoslovakia and Poland to liberate German populaces under Slavic rule).
POD #2: Hitler doesn't decide that "German movement to the south must end" and decides that South Tyrol is another piece of German land to bag (along with Sudetenland, Polish Corridor, etc) before the assault on the USSR.
Oh, dear, this scenario really has the poor Italians f'd up!
First of all, I can't see the Italians get into a shooting war with Britain without the events or similar events of OTL. Mussolini might not be the sharpest knife, but that dumb he is not!
The Italians never really planned to fight the British as they saw the French as the "real" enemy. Their Navy and Army were respectively geared for parity wiht the French Navy and for a conflict in a mountanious region (read: Border regions in and around Northern Italy), not a prolonged conflict in Egypt or South Eastern Africa.
Best regards!
- B.
First of all, I can't see the Italians get into a shooting war with Britain without the events or similar events of OTL. Mussolini might not be the sharpest knife, but that dumb he is not!
The Italians never really planned to fight the British as they saw the French as the "real" enemy. Their Navy and Army were respectively geared for parity wiht the French Navy and for a conflict in a mountanious region (read: Border regions in and around Northern Italy), not a prolonged conflict in Egypt or South Eastern Africa.
Best regards!
- B.
Max Sinister
Banned
Redbeard said:
That much? For UK alone? I had guessed it was lower... today, Italy is very industrialised (and Britain's industry has suffered), of course, than things were different, especially in Southern Italy... I'd still like to read some statistics about it, because now I've become curious...
Redbeard
Banned
Max Sinister said:
According to Paul Kennedy's "Rise and fall of the great powers" p. 426 Italy in 1938 had a share of world manufacturing output of 2,9% and UK of 9,2%, but that was before the UK rearmament got turning. Judged from John Ellis' WWII Data Book British war production generally outranged the Italian by at least a factor 5 in the early war years when the Italians still had some access to raw materials and fuel. After that Italian production got even more behind.
First of all I think we must try to forget the usual British self image of an underdog outnumbered and surrounded by superior but yet defeated enemies. The British started gearing up their economy for war well before WWII and by 1941 the British outproduced the entire Axis combined (incl. Japan). They probably didn't know, as wildly exagerated views on German strength and production ruled, but in reality UK wasn't just the last remote corner of the world not yet conquerred by the barbarians, but counted in materiel the primary military power and producer of the planet!
This was much so because German economy until 1942 still played peacetime. By 1943-44 Germany outproduced UK in most aspects, but then it was too late as the Americans had moved ahead of everybody else. Japanese and especially Italian economy never got much beyond the peacetime levels, IMO mainly because both economies were extremely dependent on unstable imports of most raw materials and fuel.
Regards
Steffen Redbeard