Can the Nazis develop nukes by 1943?

I'm sure this question has been asked ad nauseum here. In fact, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I am 100% certain this has been asked too many times here. That said, I just have one question that is bugging me right now. I know of technological and scientific limitations the Nazis had that prevented a successful program from arising. As this is an alt history board, let's handwave a few things away. #1: Let us assume the Nazis had the technological know-how; in fact let's assume that they were the furthest along the research in the world, far more advanced in technological know-how. #2: Let us assume that the Nazis were also the most advanced in the world in the sciece, the theory of atomic bomb, than anyone else. With these two givens, I ask you all: What MATERIEL (uranium, some other rare metals/substances, economic capacity, etc) limitations would have prevented the Nazis from completing their program? In addition, were these materiel limitations overcomable?
 
The thing that prevented the Nazis from getting the bomb was their anti-semitism. Hitler forbade German physicists from using E=MC2 because it was "sub-human Jew science."
 

Riain

Banned
I don't think so in wartime. Nuke industry sucks cash at an amazing rate and uses vast amounts of the most advanced industrial techniques, special alloys, expensive chemicals etc. If they are at war these things would be spread too thin to spare much for a nuke project, since it's no point finishing contruction of your first nuke after you are overrun and occupied.
 
ASBs come flying out of Hitlers arse in Christmas 1942. By 1943 the Germans then have the bomb.

Thats about as realistic as it gets.:rolleyes:
 
Can the Nazis develop nukes by 1943?

No !

because of they "stupid" physicists, ("Nein, Nein not Einstein Theorien")
Heisenberger A-bomb program is best exsample

they had over dozen A-bomb programs simultaneously
that was put 1944 under one Program under Hans Kammler of SS

also the lack of Heavy water (D2O) neede for research
and lack enriched Uran hindered the research.
 
Has anyone bothered to read more than just the thread title? I specifically handwaved the Nazi difficulties with theoretical science. In this TL, the Nazis ran the most advanced theoretical nuclear program in the world. This TL in addition handwaved the technical difficulties, once gain giving them the most advanced technical program in the world. The only real question was what materiel limitations prevented Nazi nukes from springing up and whether how difficult those materiel limitations were to overcome. To make this clear, something like "oh noes Nazis hat science!" or "too too hard to make this shit" is handwaved away.
 
Has anyone bothered to read more than just the thread title? I specifically handwaved the Nazi difficulties with theoretical science. In this TL, the Nazis ran the most advanced theoretical nuclear program in the world. This TL in addition handwaved the technical difficulties, once gain giving them the most advanced technical program in the world. The only real question was what materiel limitations prevented Nazi nukes from springing up and whether how difficult those materiel limitations were to overcome. To make this clear, something like "oh noes Nazis hat science!" or "too too hard to make this shit" is handwaved away.

There is also the minor problem that anything that looks remotely bomb-worthy in their country is, in fact, being bombed.

Also -- where are they getting the uranium?

http://www.wallstreetresearch.org/reports/etgmf_graf2/05.gif

It's all very nice that you magically handwaved all the tech/knowledge problems the Nazis had but they still have to get their uranium from somewhere. Which means, of course, that there's going to be a supply line that can (and will, once the Allies get wind of the program) be bombed.

Then there's HOW they use this bomb of theirs. The Americans had to develop a whole new type of bomber (B-29) to use it on Japan because of the fact that the first few nukes were freaking huge.

Then there's just how many of the suckers they can actually produce by 1943.
 

CalBear

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No.

NO.

NO!

Germany lacked the raw materials, the science, the money and most critically, the belief that it could be done.

This is VERY well plowed gound here. MAy want to search for some of the other threads for some of heartbreakingly detailed analysis of why this is utterly impossible (except, of course, for that whole ASB flying out of Hiter's butt option :D)
 
Short answer: No

Long answer: NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Even Hitler didn't care. He was offered to accelerate the program in late 43/44 and simply told the scientists "By that time the fate of the war will already be decided."

The loss of the heavy water plant in Norway couldn't have helped much either.
 

Riain

Banned
The heavy water is possibly a good example of what was wrong with a 3rd Riech attempt to make a nuke. The heavy water was the only moderator they had the option of using, unlike the Manhattan Project which went through the process of making pure graphite, and IIRC also had a heavy water option. The only heavy water plant was in Norway and had several attempts to attack it made with varying degrees of success, who the hell could have disrupted the MP moderator production? Nobody, thats who! And IIRC other projects had a call on the heavy water production, syphoning if you will, heavy water away from a possible nuke programme when it needs every drop it can get it's hand on.

So no, even if they had the scientists, the belief and the correct organistation such as building a 'nuclear city' they still wouldn't get enough heavy water, let alone all the other material resources a nuke needs, while the Army, Navy and Airforce have a legitimate and pressing need for these same materials to fight off the Soviets, Brits and Americans. Personally I think they'd need a few years of peace after a victory to build a nuke.
 
Actually...

Actually, there are rumors from various sources, some recently declassified, that the Nazis detonated a nuclear device in late 1944. What slowed their progress was Allied bombing, not a lack of competent scientists. There were projects other than Heisenberg's which focused on a uranium, rather than a plutonium, bomb and proved remarkably advanced despite their limited assets. A site for uranium enrichment similar to Oakridge was said to have been built by I.G. Farben at Auschwitz. Also, German scientists were able to correctly calculate the critical mass of Uranium 235 as early as 1941, Baron Manfred von Ardenne being one of them. The belief that the Nazis were bunglers in the field that they created is rather ridiculous.

Read "Reich of the Black Sun: Nazi Secret Weapons & The Cold War Allied Legend" by Joseph P. Farrell. There is a site where you can read the book for free here.
 

Riain

Banned
There's also a persistent rumor that I'm sleeping with former Miss Universe Jennifer Hawkins. The difference between this and the Nazi Nuke rumour is that mine is far more plausible. Let me repeat that; there is a far greater chance that I will sleep with Jennifer Hawkins, former Miss Universe and multi-million dollar face of Myer, than the Nazis developing a nuke during WW2. As for them actually exploding one, well you can pile a stack of the worlds hottest models into the passenger seat of my genuine 1965 Shelby Cobra 427S/C and you'd find a likelier scenario.
 
Even Hitler didn't care. He was offered to accelerate the program in late 43/44 and simply told the scientists "By that time the fate of the war will already be decided."

Well, he was effectively right, although thankfully not in the way he meant
 

CalBear

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Actually, there are rumors from various sources, some recently declassified, that the Nazis detonated a nuclear device in late 1944. What slowed their progress was Allied bombing, not a lack of competent scientists. There were projects other than Heisenberg's which focused on a uranium, rather than a plutonium, bomb and proved remarkably advanced despite their limited assets. A site for uranium enrichment similar to Oakridge was said to have been built by I.G. Farben at Auschwitz. Also, German scientists were able to correctly calculate the critical mass of Uranium 235 as early as 1941, Baron Manfred von Ardenne being one of them. The belief that the Nazis were bunglers in the field that they created is rather ridiculous.

Read "Reich of the Black Sun: Nazi Secret Weapons & The Cold War Allied Legend" by Joseph P. Farrell. There is a site where you can read the book for free here.

There are also persistent rumors that:

Hitler escaped the bunker and lived out his life A) in South America, B) as a priest in Italy, C) in Stalin's loving care

Nazis maintain a secret base in a subterranean location accessed at the North Pole

Japan detonated a Bomb

The Mayans stated that the world will end in December of 2012

Either the Israelis or the U.S. government destroyed the World Trade Centers

Man never set foot on the Moon and the whole thing was filmed on a Hollywood sound stage

Barak Obama was born in Kenya

UFO's exist and aliens are taking people for testing (and to implant hybrid embryos:eek:)

Every one of these rumors have miles of documentation and they all share a critical similarity. Every one of them is MORE likely that the Nazi's detonating a nuclear weapon in 1944.

The Nazis were not bunglers in a field they invented. That field was NOT Nuclear Weapons, something that may have had serious GERMAN roots (there is, BTW difference between the two terms), but no Nazi roots, but they were nevertheless a proud pioneer in a modern field.

They were undoubtedly exceptionally skilled at turning human beings into air pollution
 

Grey Wolf

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They had uranium (got it in Belgium) and at least on 2 occasions in 1945 as the Reich was falling apart it played a part - as in the Western Allies wanting to prevent the Russians getting their hands on it

If Heissenberg had either worked out a better theory, or had not deliberately sabotaged efforts (take your pick) they would at least have been working towards a realistic goal

And what I've read about heavy water is not that it was useless for what it was intended for, just that it was not the most efficient and not as efficient as what the Americans used

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
the answer is no, not even a little bit, not even with a sole minded focus... despite the story in tsouras' third reich victorious book where the ss takes over the bomb project in 1942/43 it cannot be done.

you would need asb intervention in the 1920's for germany at best a B+ industrial power to create nuclear weapons by 1943. the uk and russia have a higher chance of having weapons by 1943 than the germans even if the germans were determined.

unremittant air bombardment makes any facility hopelessly vulnerable. strikes against v2 development sites delayed the program by endless months. it would be times 10 for nuke sites if they were credible. the allies would be willing to accept 100 percent bomber losses to stunt the growth of a nazi bomb

put this in asb where it belongs the very idea is ludicrous and you disgust me and may god have mercy on your soul
 
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I'm sure this question has been asked ad nauseum here. In fact, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I am 100% certain this has been asked too many times here. That said, I just have one question that is bugging me right now. I know of technological and scientific limitations the Nazis had that prevented a successful program from arising. As this is an alt history board, let's handwave a few things away. #1: Let us assume the Nazis had the technological know-how; in fact let's assume that they were the furthest along the research in the world, far more advanced in technological know-how. #2: Let us assume that the Nazis were also the most advanced in the world in the sciece, the theory of atomic bomb, than anyone else. With these two givens, I ask you all: What MATERIEL (uranium, some other rare metals/substances, economic capacity, etc) limitations would have prevented the Nazis from completing their program? In addition, were these materiel limitations overcomable?

Assuming impossible conditions is always a fun game. Can we assume that Churchill has already nuked Germany thirty times as well?
 
my apologies for not being harsh or defninative enough in my previous post

your very idea supposes that the nazi party and the economic apparatus of germany in the 1930's and 40's would be rational. this alone is completely asb. this is the country that during a national war crises produced the king tiger tank and super heavy railway guns and dive bombing four engined bombers and bismark class battleships

even if skip and pedro the asb's directly visted hitler and told him to make the bomb there is no chance he could have one in 1943. his unbalanced national production priorities and militerism nearly bankrupted the german economy by 1938 they utterly lacked the required components, competent scientists, openess to ideas, the money, a reliable delivery system, and a safe environment to produce the bomb free from air bombardment that would make a nuke project possible. hitler arrested von braun and denied him funding periodically for political reasons and you just throw out the notion oh if they had the know how, if someone had the know how Hitler would see them as a freaking threat and murder them or put them in a concectration camp

he had members of the general staff arrested for evacuating warsaw which was defended by less than a division against a freaking soviet army group and somehow there supposed to be a logical progression towards the bomb by 1943.

Germany led the world in theoretical nuclear science prior to the nazi's rise to power then they burned all their books for right wing insanity. if hitler focused on the bomb it would be a blessing because it would reduce german economic capacity to fight the war and he would still not get anywhere
 

CalBear

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...Germany led the world in theoretical nuclear science prior to the nazi's rise to power then they burned all their books for right wing insanity. if hitler focused on the bomb it would be a blessing because it would reduce german economic capacity to fight the war and he would still not get anywhere


No, don't hold back!

Tell us how you REALLY feel!

:D:p:D:p:D
 
I'm sorry most of the people on this thread didn't bother to read the original post all the way through or even realize this is a useful thought exercise.

However, the lack of heavy water as a moderator is going to be critical, as is Germany's wartime situation. The atomic bomb cost the United States government something like 5-10% of its total revenue, and that is a step that is probably too far to overcome. In fact, I'd say it's impossible by 1943.

By 1945, perhaps not impossible, with the right scientific know-how and a couple lucky breaks (plutonium, for instance, is far less expensive than enriching uranium in the long run), but somewhere on the order of tenths of a percentage point in terms of likelihood, and that only with all of their scientists, sane organization, and only a one-front war.
 
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