The Prince of Peace

[Gonzaga]

Originally Posted by Matthais Corvinus

The Catholic monarchs' marriages were creating a vast anti-French alliance, using their large family to bring the English and Hapsburg into an alliance. The clear aim of the marriages was to counter French ambitions, and protect and expand Spain's European interests. The marriage alliance between Spain and the Hapsburg is going to be of particular use in wars in Italy, since the Hapsburg and Spanish should be able to amicably split the peninsula with Hapsburg control via assertion of Imperial rights in Milan, and the connection of Naples/Sicily to the Aragonese throne.

If Ferdinand decides to marry Maria to someone who could be part of an anti-French alliance then a good candidate would be Philibert II, Duke of Savoy. IOTL he married Margaret of Austria, the widow of Juan of Trastamara, Ferdinand and Isabella's only male son. It would be almost the same, just now he marries a Spanish princess rather than a German one. However, as Maria had IOTL more luck in her pregnancies, Philibert might have a male son now, who becomes the next Duke of Savoy instead of his half-brother Charles III.

Originally Posted by Matthais Corvinus

Has Philip the Handsome died in 1506? And is Charles V going to end up the same kind of person, educated in the same manner with the same kind of personality, just minus the Spanish crowns?

IOTL he died from a disease he got in Burgos. As ITTL he isn't living in Spain he might survive for many years, maybe some decades.

[DrakeRlugia]

No, Philip the Handsome died IOTL due to tuberculosis or something of the sort while in Spain, so he still lives, and will probably be elected King of the Romans here in a few years. Charles V will probably be quite different in this time line, I'm still debating what will happen the Habsburgs, as to who gets what...there will two branches of the family, but not Spanish/Austrian branches, but rather an Austrian and a Burgundian branch.

The Burgundian branch shall rule over the Lowlands from Brussels, possibly titled as King of Lotharingia or something of the sort. Unlike in our world, there will be no pragmatic sanction that established the Seventeen Provinces as seperate from France and the Empire..so the lowlands shall remain tied to the HRE; it is likely that Philip, when Emperor, will revive Lotharingia for Ferdinand, to give him a royal dignity. Perhaps akin to Bohemia, it will be given electoral dignity as well...but it all remains on Imperial strength and how the wars in the empire play out.

Charles V in this world will come to eventually inherit the Austrian domains; Maximilian I hosted a Congress at Vienna in 1515 to settle disputes with the Jagiellon dynasty, and this will still occur here. Hoping to increase the power of the Habsburgs over the Jagiellons (who ruled Poland, Bohemia, and Hungary) we will see the only daughter of the King of Bohemia and Hungary bethrothed to Charles, rather than Ferdinand. So Charles will probably come to rule over Hungary and Bohemia at some junction, alongside his hereditary lands. I haven't thought much beyond that in Germany and the East, aside from a few musings in Poland, which include the survival of the Jagiellons there.

Indeed, the ties of Habsburg and the Trastamaras are important for the meantime. But when Ferdinand dies in 1516, all bets are off. Of course Manuel and Isabella will come to rule Naples, Sicily, and Sardinia, but as cautious as Manuel is, he may leave the Habsburgs to fight France alone, or perhaps he will be pushed into action: after all, a dominant France is a threat to Iberia, and his only desire to secure things for Miguel, his heir. Another important event that will play out soon is Navarre, and that it shall survive on the European map for a little while longer.

I've decided to keep Maria unmarried for the sake of a good Viceroy in Castile that won't anger the natives. Perhaps a marriage later in life, when she is even older...but we shall see.

[Matthais Corvinus]

Originally Posted by DrakeRlugia

No, Philip the Handsome died IOTL due to tuberculosis or something of the sort while in Spain, so he still lives, and will probably be elected King of the Romans here in a few years. Charles V will probably be quite different in this time line, I'm still debating what will happen the Habsburgs, as to who gets what...there will two branches of the family, but not Spanish/Austrian branches, but rather an Austrian and a Burgundian branch.

The Burgundian branch shall rule over the Lowlands from Brussels, possibly titled as King of Lotharingia or something of the sort. Unlike in our world, there will be no pragmatic sanction that established the Seventeen Provinces as seperate from France and the Empire..so the lowlands shall remain tied to the HRE; it is likely that Philip, when Emperor, will revive Lotharingia for Ferdinand, to give him a royal dignity. Perhaps akin to Bohemia, it will be given electoral dignity as well...but it all remains on Imperial strength and how the wars in the empire play out.

Why would the Hapsburg split their territory like this? The Burgundian inheritance was the wealthier piece of their territory, and its where Philip the Handsome has ruled since he was 15, its where *Charles V will be raised, and the Burgundian branch, in OTL was the senior branch of the Hapsburg family.

Charles V in this world will come to eventually inherit the Austrian domains; Maximilian I hosted a Congress at Vienna in 1515 to settle disputes with the Jagiellon dynasty, and this will still occur here. Hoping to increase the power of the Habsburgs over the Jagiellons (who ruled Poland, Bohemia, and Hungary) we will see the only daughter of the King of Bohemia and Hungary bethrothed to Charles, rather than Ferdinand. So Charles will probably come to rule over Hungary and Bohemia at some junction, alongside his hereditary lands. I haven't thought much beyond that in Germany and the East, aside from a few musings in Poland, which include the survival of the Jagiellons there.

The Battle of Mohacs might be butterflied out of existence. The Italian Wars are going to be very different, with a three-sided conflict in Italy, the Hapsburg, the French and Spain will be operating independently. So the French-Ottoman alliance, while it will probably emerge, probably won't react to a *Battle of Pavia, with 25 years of intervening history being different.

If Louis II has children, then that will keep the Hapsburg off of the Bohemian and Hungarian thrones.

Philip the Handsome is going to be ruling over the Hapsburg family territory for a while probably- so that at least keeps any plans for splitting the territory off the table. In addition to the Burgundian and Austrian territory, the Duchy of Milan might also be on the table, if the Sforza die off or the Hapsburg decide that Milan needs direct rule to oppose the French. I don't think the Hapsburg have any motivation to turn their Burgundian territory into a separate kingdom, but rather Philip will probably follow Charles OTL move to unify the Burgundian Inheritance.

If the Jagiellon dynasty doesn't die off, then I would say that Hapsburg ambitions will definitely be turned either towards internal German expansion (connecting the Burgundian and Austrian halves of their territory) or towards Italian expansion. The opportunity that Luther offers towards expansion within Germany is going to be a lot more tempting without the Spanish crowns.

Indeed, the ties of Habsburg and the Trastamaras are important for the meantime. But when Ferdinand dies in 1516, all bets are off. Of course Manuel and Isabella will come to rule Naples, Sicily, and Sardinia, but as cautious as Manuel is, he may leave the Habsburgs to fight France alone, or perhaps he will be pushed into action: after all, a dominant France is a threat to Iberia, and his only desire to secure things for Miguel, his heir. Another important event that will play out soon is Navarre, and that it shall survive on the European map for a little while longer.

A French-ruled Duchy of Milan poses an immediate threat to Spanish-ruled Naples/Sicily. I think you could see a Papacy that increases lines up with the Spanish, since the Spanish want to maintain a balance of power in northern Italy to keep any power from posing a threat to southern Italy.

[DrakeRlugia]

Originally Posted by Matthais Corvinus

Why would the Hapsburg split their territory like this? The Burgundian inheritance was the wealthier piece of their territory, and its where Philip the Handsome has ruled since he was 15, its where *Charles V will be raised, and the Burgundian branch, in OTL was the senior branch of the Hapsburg family.

The Habsburgs often granted second sons pieces of territory. Look at the original Austrian domains under Ferdinand I; after he died, one son succeeded him in Austrian proper with the Imperial dignity, while one succeeded in Inner Austria, and the other in Outer Austria. Those domains had been built up over the years, it's hard to see them abandoned. Of course, Philip is quite Flemish so I can see where he probably won't abandon Brussels for Vienna...in which case the Holy Roman Emperors would rule from the Lowlands... now that is interesting! Thank you for pointing all that out.

The Battle of Mohacs might be butterflied out of existence. The Italian Wars are going to be very different, with a three-sided conflict in Italy, the Hapsburg, the French and Spain will be operating independently. So the French-Ottoman alliance, while it will probably emerge, probably won't react to a *Battle of Pavia, with 25 years of intervening history being different.

If Louis II has children, then that will keep the Hapsburg off of the Bohemian and Hungarian thrones.

The Ottoman action against Hungary wasn't motivated by the French alliance, was it? The Ottomans had been increasingly encroaching on Hungary since the beginning of the 16th century. Louis II had hoped to gain Austrian help through his marriage with Mary of Austria, which might be a motivation...but regardless of how the Italian wars play out, I think it's likely the Turks will gut Hungary either way.

Philip the Handsome is going to be ruling over the Hapsburg family territory for a while probably- so that at least keeps any plans for splitting the territory off the table. In addition to the Burgundian and Austrian territory, the Duchy of Milan might also be on the table, if the Sforza die off or the Hapsburg decide that Milan needs direct rule to oppose the French. I don't think the Hapsburg have any motivation to turn their Burgundian territory into a separate kingdom, but rather Philip will probably follow Charles OTL move to unify the Burgundian Inheritance.

Indeed, any split would be when Philip dies, to provide for his two sons. Since you pointed out the Lowlands wealth and the fact Charles was raised there (Ferdinand was probably sent to Vienna to be raised by his grandfather, or something), the Holy Roman Emperors will probably rule from the Lowlands..thus the pragmatic sanction probably will occur. Thank you for pointing this out.

Milan is also a big question, but if the Aviz aren't actively fighting with the Habsburgs, it's likely to see the French maintain Milan, perhaps. But if the Sforza are restored and do die out, then the Habsburgs would claim it as a vacant fief, and as you say, to oppose the Valois.

If the Jagiellon dynasty doesn't die off, then I would say that Hapsburg ambitions will definitely be turned either towards internal German expansion (connecting the Burgundian and Austrian halves of their territory) or towards Italian expansion. The opportunity that Luther offers towards expansion within Germany is going to be a lot more tempting without the Spanish crowns.

Indeed. German expansion and centralization will indeed be a goal; Maximilian sought it at Worms in 1495, and I'm sure Philip and his descendants will strive for it too. The wars in the empire are certainly going to be interesting, and can help the Habsburgs grow, or shrink.

A French-ruled Duchy of Milan poses an immediate threat to Spanish-ruled Naples/Sicily. I think you could see a Papacy that increases lines up with the Spanish, since the Spanish want to maintain a balance of power in northern Italy to keep any power from posing a threat to southern Italy.

I am interested in why you think Milan poses a threat to Naples. Of course the French had some claims to Naples which they pressed in the early parts of the wars, alongside Milan, but after 1504, nothing major was taken to seize Naples, and it remained firmly Spanish after that. Manuel is cautious, and had no desire to be dragged into the Italian wars ITTL, at the nearest convinence he withdrew Castilian troops and refused to aid Ferdinand during the League of Cambrai: of course, once Aragon is inherited he may understand the situation better and be willing to act. The Papacy is going to be important in the coming years, to both the Aviz and the Habsburgs, and the Italian wars will be quite different, and interesting. I'd very much welcome your imput.

[pompejus]

I would advise you not to call "the Netherlands" Lotharingia, as that is exactly the same as Lorraine. Lorraine is just the French name of Lotharingia. You could call it lower Lorraine, as that was more or less the old name of the area, while upper Lorraine later became Lorraine.

[DrakeRlugia]

Well, the way it looks, the Netherlands will remain the seat of the senior branch of the Habsburg family and the Holy Roman Emperors, thus there won't be any reason to carve out a royal dignity up there. I based that choice on if Ferdinand were to inherit the Burgundian domains; but as they are far more wealthier than the Austrian ones, Ferdinand will still end up receiving Austria, Styria, and Tyrol, and the hand of the daughter of the Jagiellon King of Bohemia and Hungary.

[Matthais Corvinus]

Originally Posted by pompejus

I would advise you not to call "the Netherlands" Lotharingia, as that is exactly the same as Lorraine. Lorraine is just the French name of Lotharingia. You could call it lower Lorraine, as that was more or less the old name of the area, while upper Lorraine later became Lorraine.

The 'Burgundian Inheritance' or the '17 Provinces' are both options. Or just Burgundy- especially if some kind of *Treaty of Madrid get imposed on the French!

I am interested in why you think Milan poses a threat to Naples. Of course the French had some claims to Naples which they pressed in the early parts of the wars, alongside Milan, but after 1504, nothing major was taken to seize Naples, and it remained firmly Spanish after that.

IMO the French presence represents a permanent threat to Iberian-ruled Naples. A French-ruled Milan is going to be a springboard into further Italian expansionism. If the French can secure northern Italy, they will inevitably enlarge their ambitions- and with the Angevin claim in Naples that is the logical next step. The French on their end are going to view long-term control of Naples by the Iberians as a threat to their control of Milan- so I think you have a situation where the French and Iberians both view the others continued presence on the Italian peninsula as unacceptable.

By the same token a Hapsburg-ruled Milan might be seen in a similar light by the Iberians, especially if the Hapsburg are moving to consolidate Imperial power north of the Alps. Any indictation that the Hapsburg are reviving Imperial pretensions to Italian overlordship would be opposed by the Iberians. There could be even more tension if the Hapsburg are undertaking an Erasmusian reform of the Church by way of Martin Luther, bringing in the taint of maybe, almost heresy along with territorial expansion.

Under these conditions, I would say that Iberia might find an excellent ally in Venice- a power that is neither France or the HREGN and one that could be powerful enough to keep non-Italian powers out of Lombardy. An Iberia-Venice alliance could well take Milan, which would satisfy Hapsburg and Iberian ambitions by keeping France out of Italy.

[pompejus]

Originally Posted by Matthais Corvinus

The 'Burgundian Inheritance' or the '17 Provinces' are both options. Or just Burgundy- especially if some kind of *Treaty of Madrid get imposed on the French!

The Burgundian Inheritance or Burgundy without French Burgundy? I don't know about that. Also the 17 provinces isn't correct as it lacks Utrecht, Overijssel, Gelre/Zutphen, Groningen and Friesland at the moment. Some, or maybe even all, are likely to be included in the future, just like Charles V did. It is also possible that other parts might be included, like Liege.
My best guess would still be calling it Lower Lorraine or else maybe even the Netherlands or Belgium.

[DrakeRlugia]

Thanks for all these comments. They're interesting to read and put a new perspective on things. I'll probably start working on the next chapter in a couple days, it deals mainly with League of Cambrai, Navarre, and Ferdinand's demise and the inheritance of Aragon by the Aviz, as well as some quips on the young Miguel. He's growing up, and it's time to start that search for his future consort.

Matthais, your comments on Milan are of great help, and it makes perfect sense. Both France and Spain are going to stare at eachother from their respective positions and any long-term peace isn't sustainable; in OTL it didn't happen and it resulted in Spanish domination of the pennisula. I think the same is true here, where an outside power needs to dominate the pennisula fully (France, Spain, Austria), or something close to the status quo needs to be achieved. The survival of the Sforza and their restoration in Milan might be a feasible goal, and something Spain and Austria could work towards in conjuction. The Holy Roman Emperor could only claim Milan upon the vacancy of the fief, and that doesn't exist as of yet...and may not ever. I am heavily contemplating the survival of this boy.

[Gonzaga]

There is one thing I wonder about the American colonies. Now that Portugal and Castile will be under a union, meaning the same monarch controls both parts of the Treaty of Tordesillas, wouldn't this be even more fought by the other powers. I mean, IOTL the French kings complained about it, saying that they "didn't know the article of Adam's will that gave the world to Portugal and Castile", so ITTL the possibility of the entire Americas belonging to the Spanish monarchy would be against the wishes of everybody else. I would expect even a French king trying to convince a Pope to change that.

[DrakeRlugia]

It depends on the Pope and the influence that the Iberians have on the curia in Rome. Even if France was complaining IOTL, they really couldn't do much more than that...complain, because the Papacy was notoriously pro-Spanish. Tordesillas came about because the Pope at the time was pro-Spanish, and even Portugal argued against the first draft because it denied them India.

With the Iberians in Naples, they are in a perfect position to keep the Pope in line through an army in Naples. At most, I presume that colonial powers will do as they did originally: they will go to the Americas anyways, in spite of the treaty. How France and England are situated geographically means their explorers, heading west, are more likely to make landfall in North America, around Canada and the like, while explorers from Iberia are more likely to end up in the Carribean. While the Americas are granted unto the Aviz (they will claim the whole as heirs to Ferdinand and Isabella), they don't have the resources or people to colonize it...they will be seeking out first and foremost, gold and profits.

I think we're likely to see the Papacy not wishing to anger the Aviz, because of their position in Naples put them notoriously close to the capital at Rome. Likewise, Julius II at this time has very poor relations with the French King, Louis XII, because of the League of Cambrai: the Pope abandoned his war against Venice to ally with them, in order to check French ambitions. Without total foreign domination of the pennisula, we'll see the Papacy juggling between the Kings of France and Spain, and the Emperor, in order to maintain their own independent interests.

[Matthais Corvinus]

Without the Netherlands being in the Spanish colonial empire, you're also probably going to see Hapsburg attempts at colonizing. The Netherlands managed to conquer a large empire on its own OTL, now with the further resources of the Imperial Hapsburg its possible that they could expand and/or deepen their colonial control. Of course, if they mean to get a colonial empire it would mean expansion at the cost of the Aviz's possession and that would mean war with the Iberians . . .

[DrakeRlugia]

Indeed, with the city of Antwerp (Bruges, too, but it's in decline) under the hands of the Habsburgs, I think colonization in the name of the Empire is very likely. If the whole of the Lowlands remain Habsburg, there won't be any closing of the Scheldt to navigation, so Antwerp will remain an important commerce center and home to the Habsburgs colonial aspirations. Exploration and charting out the unknown would be good way for the Habsburgs to unify the princes regardless of their religions.

[DrakeRlugia]

The Great Match and Coming of Age
1512 to 1516; Portugal, Spain, and Navarre

The League of Cambrai also entangled Iberia, mainly the Kingdom of Navarre, which declared it’s neutrality in the conflicts between Ferdinand of Aragon and Louis XII of France. This infuriated Ferdinand beyond all belief, who desired to further unite Iberia by bringing the Kingdom of Navarre, or at least it’s provinces south of the Pyrenees into the crown of Aragon, which would pass to Manuel and Isabella upon his death, and bring the whole of Iberia into a single union, creating a border with France on the Pyrenees.

The Papacy under Julius II pursued a highly ambitious policy, forming a Holy League against Venice in 1508 with Aragon, Austria, and France. Upon the defeat of Venice, however, Julius rapidly changed his position, allying with Venice to contain further French ambitions in Italy; Catherine de Foix, the reigning Queen of Navarre, alongside her husband, Jean d’Albret, refused to declare against France, not only due to French sympathies, but lest they forfeit their massive estates inside France due to treason. Ferdinand of Aragon saw this as unacceptable, and pressed his ally, the Pope, to excommunicate the King of Navarre, which would legitimize any Aragonese invasion of the tiny Iberian kingdom. This was something Julius II refused to do, for a variety of reasons.

Ferdinand had much reason to be angry. The political alliance that existed between the royal dynasties of Valois and Foix were leading to marriage negotiations between Catherine and Louis XII of France, for a match between the Prince of Viana[1], Henry, and one of the French King’s daughters. Ferdinand greatly feared French influence increasing in Pamplona, for a Navarrese alliance would give France an easy springboard into the Iberian Peninsula and give it greater maneuvering ability in times of war to threaten the provinces of Aragon. Ferdinand refused to see any such match carried out so long as he breathed, and began to prepare for an invasion of the tiny kingdom before any substantial agreement could be reached between the houses of Valois and Foix. Little did Ferdinand know, however, that Catherine was hardly seeking align Navarre with France, but to protect her own interests in that kingdom. Above all, Navarre was most important, Pamplona was her home, and Catherine had little desire to abandon it, or her subjects in Upper Navarre, to retreat beyond to the Pyrenees to Pau, as her husband Jean might seek to do if things turned rough. To protect her interests against a hungry Aragon, Louis XII made a useful ally. But aside from overtures to Paris, Catherine sent out envoys to Lisbon, to the court of Manuel. Moderate and cautious, having shown his true colors during the last stages of the Italian wars, Catherine knew she could rely on Manuel to maintain the status-quo of the Iberian peninsula, and her kingdom. While Louis dithered on coming to a final agreement with the Queen of Navarre, Manuel was fast working, and agreed to protect the Kingdom of Navarre and preserve it’s provinces south of the Pyrenees from the aggression of his father-in-law.

The Treaty of Bigorre, ratified in the summer of 1512 essentially outlined many of the previous treaties that the Kingdom of Castile had ratified with Navarre: The Treaty of Tudela (1476) and Pamplona-Medina del Campo (1494), which had pacified the civil feuds between the Beaumonts and Gramonts, and brought Navarre closer into the orbit of Iberia[2]. As Manuel had sought neutrality in the League of Cambrai, Navarre could safely seek the protection of the King of Portugal and Castile, which would deter Ferdinand of Aragon from any potential invasion, while still leaving her room to negotiate with the King of France. Aside from securing the continued independence of Navarre south of the Pyrenees, the treaty provided for the marriage of Prince Miguel, at then fourteen, to the Infanta Ana d’Albret, Catherine’s eldest daughter, aged twenty. Catherine had given birth to a total of twelve children, and was pregnant with her final child; out of those, six had died young; this left her with threeto provide good marriages for, lest they end up in a nunnery. A match to the Prince of Portugal, and future King of Portugal, Castile, and Aragon was the best that Catherine could hope for, and the marriage was celebrated a few months later, at Logroño.

Typically a meek woman who did not often state her opinions, Isabella II, the Queen of Portugal and actual Queen of Castile was outraged at the Treaty of Bigorre, finding the match of her only son to a Navarrese Infanta as below his station and throwing him into a useless marriage when a grander match could be found. She complained bitterly of the small dowry, and her age in comparison to her son, fearing that Ana would dominate her young son and push him into an agenda to favor her French relatives. Isabella was also outraged on the account that Manuel did not even bother to consider to her own father, who had consulted her in regards to using the Castilian army alongside his own to conquer Upper Navarre, realizing after the meeting at Toledo that Manuel would never aid in his territorial ambitions. And thus even though Ferdinand was present at the wedding at Logroño and even played the role of putting the young couple into bed that evening, on the inside, he could only fume that Manuel had once again blocked his ambitions of expansion. Only after the whole ceremony were Ferdinand and Isabella II calmed, with Manuel’s explanation that armed conflict in seizing Navarre would only provoke France further, and although it would secure the flanks of the Iberian kingdoms, it would tarnish the prestige of the Iberian crowns. Although a match to Ana was lowly for Miguel, it provided a chance to inherit Navarre, Ana being the eldest daughter of Catherine. As she had only one son, the Prince of Viana, Henry, it seemed entirely possible for the succession to devolve upon the House of Aviz, which had a succession law similar to Castile, as evidenced in the reign of Catherine and several other Navarrese Queens.

Following the wedding at Logroño, Prince Miguel and his new wife, Ana, returned to Lagos where Miguel had been allotted his own household since the death of Isabella the Catholic in 1504. Ana, heavily influenced by the culture of her parents, who oft resided in France, helped spark a Renaissance in Lagos. She took control of the courtly life of Lagos, creating a lovely atmosphere that began to rival Lisbon; to many, Lagos became a shining beacon of the age, in contrast to Lisbon which housed a much more classical atmosphere. To Miguel, his bride from Pampalona was refreshing, the young Portuguese prince taken by his Navarrese bride: it was no surprise that she bore two children quite quickly, the Infante João (1514) and the Infanta Catarina (1515), yet a great tragedy occurred during the difficult birth of the Infanta Catarina, which took the life of Princess Ana, leaving Miguel a widower at eighteen with two young children and dashing any hopes of a dynastic union with Navarre, at least as direct as one involving Ana would bring. Despairing at this, it was no surprise that his mother Isabella ordered the young Miguel to Lisbon, sending him to Bilbao on the Bay of Biscay to recuperate, while she took over to care for her grandchildren.

The fate of Ana seemed uncannily tied to the King of Aragon, Ferdinand. For not long after her death, he died as well, the last of the Catholic monarchs. His death on January 23, 1516, finally brought all three of the Iberian kingdoms into a personal union. A few weeks after his death, the Archbishop of Zaragoza arrived in Lisbon to offer his condolences for the death of the Princess Magdalena, but also of the King of Aragon, who had passed some time before. Isabella was heartbroken at the thought of losing her remaining parent, and Manuel ordered mourning, just as he had for Isabella the Catholic; for all his disagreements with the man, Manuel would sorely miss Ferdinand as an ally, confidant, and friend. The Portuguese couple, alongside their son, summoned from Bilbao, made their way to Zaragoza where they met formally with the Cortes of Aragon and ascended to the Aragonese. It was also on this occasion that Miguel was invested as Prince of Asturias and Girona.

[1]A title born by the heir to the Kingdom of Navarre, like the Prince of Wales in England.

[2] These treaties essentially made Navarre a Castilian protectorate for a time, although perhaps that is too modern a word to describe the arrangements.

---

And there's the last of the important Iberian chapters, at least until Manuel's death. For the next chapter, I'm willing to take reader input, of what you'd like to see. France? Italy? England? Name any country, or a couple, and I'll bring them up to speed in the world of PoP! As always, comments and criticism are welcome, as they help improve things.

[Gonzaga]

Originally Posted by DrakeRlugia

And there's the last of the important Iberian chapters, at least until Manuel's death. For the next chapter, I'm willing to take reader input, of what you'd like to see. France? Italy? England? Name any country, or a couple, and I'll bring them up to speed in the world of PoP! As always, comments and criticism are welcome, as they help improve things.

Well, personally I think that the POD wouldn't be enough to change the eventual death of Magdalene in 1504, and so it would make more sense to marry Miguel to her sister Catherine, who was even younger than her and still alive in the 1510's. But of course, the TL is yours, and you decide how much can be changed.

However, I wonder what will be the future of Magdalene's brother, the IOTL Henry II of Navarre (especially if he dies childless ITTL).

For suggestions, I personally would like to see the Netherlands and the HRE. Maximilian is about to die (1519 IOTL) and it would be interesting to see how an alive Philip the Handsome would be as Emperor.

[DrakeRlugia]

I couldn't find anything on why Magdalena died, only that it was when she around ten, so one can only assume it was due to a childhood disease or something of another and something that is entirely preventable; Catherine didn't seem to have much luck with her thirteen children, she lost two in one year, looking at their births and deaths! I was heavily debating which sister for Miguel to marry, I had originally chosen Quitria (b. 1499) before I moved down to Magdalena.

The fate of Henry II is still up in the air. As Navarre didn't lose it's southern provinces, I'm sure Louis XII will consider a match to the future King as quite useful, so we may see Henry II wed to Renée de Valois, rather than François Ier's sister Marguerite. But as Louis XII died on time (1515, a French chapter at some point will bring us up to speed there), François might seek to see his sister suitably married.

[DrakeRlugia]

I revised the most recent chapter thanks to Gonzaga; I have been convinced that the butterflies have not been great enough at this point to allow Magdalena d'Albret to survive, so Miguel has instead married the eldest surviving daughter of Catherine and Jean d'Albret, Ana, who was born in 1492. This solidifies a potential claim to Navarre even more than a marriage to Magdalena would.

As always, comments are appreciated, they help smooth things over for me, help me work even harder, and shine light on things. Reader comments on what they'd like to see matter the most at this conjecture, for the next few chapters will take place out of Iberia, bringing other portions of Europe up to speed. So what you'd like to see, the empire, France, England, ect, matters!

[Valdemar II]

Originally Posted by DrakeRlugia

And there's the last of the important Iberian chapters, at least until Manuel's death. For the next chapter, I'm willing to take reader input, of what you'd like to see. France? Italy? England? Name any country, or a couple, and I'll bring them up to speed in the world of PoP! As always, comments and criticism are welcome, as they help improve things.

Germany/Netherland especially the effect on the Habsburgs dynasty.

[Archangel]

Nice Timeline, DrakeRlugia!

Originally Posted by DrakeRlugia

And there's the last of the important Iberian chapters, at least until Manuel's death. For the next chapter, I'm willing to take reader input, of what you'd like to see. France? Italy? England? Name any country, or a couple, and I'll bring them up to speed in the world of PoP! As always, comments and criticism are welcome, as they help improve things.

I would like to see how Italy is ITTL.

[Jammy]

I'd like to see whats happening in England.