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  #281  
Old November 11th, 2011, 03:53 PM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Originally Posted by zraith View Post
Now I can't wait to see who Archduchess Mary of Hungary finally marries.

Question about the image that was posted, those Silesian land and I assume titles for the lands are still part of the Empire or have they been taken out? Not sure how much would the other German Princes love the idea of having a foreign Power have direct access to the inner workings of the Empire or the Polish King enjoying the idea of being embroiled with Empire politics.

I guess that Saxony was given concessions someplace else other than Bohemia? The only changes I see is that piece of Bohemian land was given to Brandenburg and Poland.
The Silesia territories are removed from the Empire. Brandenburg is given Upper Lusatia and the City of Schiewbus. The Electorate of Saxony is rewarded with a reorganization of the Electorate in regards to the Albertine land IOTL land became the Ernestine stem-duchies.

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I don't know whether the Bohemian Estates will be thrilled about given away territories, which are a part of the Lands of the Bohemian Crown.
Doing so would (greatly) weaken the position of any king of Bohemia.

Regarding not getting the entire Austrian inheritance, they already lose the Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen (most important parts Hungary and Croatia).

The imperial branch will inherit the Austrian Hereditary Lands, because they are the legal heirs to it, the alternative would set an unwanted precedent even for those in the HRE opposing the Habsburgs.

This only leaves the Lands of the Crown of St. Wenceslaus (Bohemia) and like I said, they like to remain intact. so IMHO they either get all the Bohemian Lands or someone else is elected.

Not surprisingly I'd prefer to see them with all the Lands of the Bohemian Crown; not inheriting Hungary and Croatia is IMHO already a major part of the inheritance of the Austrian branch they aren't getting.
They probably would not be totally happy about it, but the War of the Austrian Succession is wound up in several other conflicts and ends up resolved in different peace treaties signed at Valciennes. The Emperor's Party is the most popular in Bohemia and a vaccum develops following the death of the Archduke Albert as well as King Maximilian's brother (and governor) the Archduke Ferdinand. By the time Maximilian dies, the Imperial Party has a large following with promises of toleration and freedom for the Estates. As the Emperor resides in Brussels, there would also be a plus for the Estates as there would be an absentee king to leave them to their business.

The full Austrian hereditary lands go the Emperor, yes. No contesting that. Yet the loss of Hungary and Croatia is not a big deal compared to Bohemia; Bohemia is more populous and within the empire. It's also much richer. While ruling Hungary and Croatia would be a boost to Imperial prestige and what the Emperor tries to do initially, it blows up in his face. He doesn't have the support to do so.

So yes, seeing the crown remain intact would be the best option, but I think not very likely. The Emperor gains the support of the Protestant Electors to take over Bohemia, and they have to be rewarded in some way. Silesia stems from Mary's rejection of Sigismund and for the Jagiellons renouncing any rights upon Bohemia. The Bohemians aren't going to elect someone else when the Emperor has pledged his support (and armies) against those of the Archduchess Mary. It wouldn't make any sense. And yes, keeping the crown intact would be nice, but would be unlikely in any compromising peace treaty that finally seals up all the late 16th century conflicts.

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Originally Posted by zraith View Post
Are the Hungarian and Croatian crowns separate or joint? I think it was only mentioned that Mary of Hungary only has the Kingdom of Hungary not also the Kingdom of Croatia.

About Hungary and "Royal" Hungary, do these stay separate or do the Habsburgs give it back to Hungary?
Seperate but in personal union. Mary II of Hungary is also Mary II of Croatia. They are basically united under a common monarch but have their own Diet and Governor, the Ban of Croatia. Yet Croatian autonomy is very slim, and it is mostly governed from Buda. There was some talk of the Imperialists seeking to rouse the Croatians with promises of the restoration of the old religion (Croatia, unlike Hungary was and still is majority Catholic, so the establishment of the "Reformed" Church is resented, as is toleration for heretics). Indeed, Croatia nearly offers it's crown to the Emperor, but it remains with Hungary and Mary.

As for Royal Hungary, that is merely a term for the portion of Hungary that the Habsburgs controlled prior to Karansebesch. With the Hungarian Diet bequeathing the crown to Maximilian, Royal Hungary was reintegrated back into Hungary and remains part of it. Imperial forces manage to occupy a portion of it for a time (such as Pressburg), but it ultimately stays Hungarian.
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  #282  
Old November 13th, 2011, 04:29 AM
Archangel Archangel is offline
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Nice update, DrakeRlugia!
Albert seemed like a good ruler.
Hope the Crown of Hungary goes to an Italian-based House.
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  #283  
Old November 13th, 2011, 07:10 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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Now the question is whether Frederick IV would split the Burgundian Inheritance from the rest of the Habsburg Hereditary Lands.
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  #284  
Old November 13th, 2011, 07:58 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Now the question is whether Frederick IV would split the Burgundian Inheritance from the rest of the Habsburg Hereditary Lands.
Doubtful, as the goal of reuniting all of the Habsburg lands under one ruler has been achieved. Of course the Habsburgs had a thing for splitting up the territories, especially with several sons, but he'd probably want to ensure it was all considered a collective, singular territory. The only different from OTL is no pragmatic sanction in the Low Countries: they still remain the assortment of counties and duchies they were during the time of the House of Burgundy and are still part of the empire. The only difference is the deattachment of Flanders from France and it's formal inclusion into it as the Margraviate of Flanders (a title born by the heir as well as King of the Romans).

Any second son will probably get the prestigious appointment of Governor of Bohemia, though. If Brussels weren't already such a large and prosperous city, the Emperor might consider moving to Prague...
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  #285  
Old November 13th, 2011, 08:07 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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The religious tolerance Frederick IV espouses helps his case too - amusingly, a lot of his lands are Lutheran.
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  #286  
Old November 13th, 2011, 08:25 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle View Post
The religious tolerance Frederick IV espouses helps his case too - amusingly, a lot of his lands are Lutheran.
Yep - it's the Catholics who seem to be in the minority. That definitely won't change given his antipacy to the ATL* Tridentitine Councils. Frederick IV is more likely to take part in the Bohemian Diet's attempts to regulate Hussite, Lutheran, and Calvinists into a new Church to replace the old Bohemian beretheren that are dying out (another issue that Max the Pious has struggles dealing with--watching new heresies prop up in Bohemia, which is just a hotbed of religious thought as ATL... hence it's temptations as an Imperial Capital. )
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Old November 13th, 2011, 08:31 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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It's probably the Free County of Burgundy and parts of the Hereditary Lands themselves which would be the most Catholic in this regard.

Though I can't wait for an update on the war itself.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 08:44 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle View Post
It's probably the Free County of Burgundy and parts of the Hereditary Lands themselves which would be the most Catholic in this regard.

Though I can't wait for an update on the war itself.
Coming up very soon. I believe I have one more update regarding the French Religious Wars, an update regarding the Empire and the Austrian Succession Crisis, as well as some news regarding Spain. Then the War of the Quadruple Alliance begins, and we have the bloodiest conflict of the Sixteenth Century, adding in the mess of the extinction of the Zapolyas in Hungary, the Ottoman Interregnum, and Spain's own issues in the Far East...

Also, wouldn't root much for the Free County. The Emperor, ahem... doesn't keep it. The County is wholly Catholic minus Besancon, which is Lutheran... the Hereditary domains are mostly Catholic, at least in the rural areas. The Nobles and merchants have embraced Lutheranism and Vienna is a Lutheran City. The Low Countries are wholly Calvinist although Frisia and good portions of Brabant and Flanders are Catholic. Again, mostly the cities and nobles. Bohemia is a mess of Lutherans, Calvinists, and Moravians. They clarify their beliefs into a singular reformed church later, though. Over all, Calvins teachings are more popular and Europe is a bit more religiously diverse. Still, it's a boiling kettle.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 09:26 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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I think I have a good idea who gets the Free County. Does the Emperor also let go of Charolais?
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  #290  
Old November 14th, 2011, 04:18 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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I think I have a good idea who gets the Free County. Does the Emperor also let go of Charolais?
Yep - unfortunately. Although honestly it is probably the least important part of the Burgundian inheritance.
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  #291  
Old November 24th, 2011, 07:47 AM
Saya Aensland Saya Aensland is offline
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Once the Austrian Succession Crisis and the War of the Quadruple Alliance are resolved, will you tell us more about Spanish colonization in the East Indies?

*futilely rooting for a Spanish united Malay Archipelago + Malay Peninsula*
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  #292  
Old November 24th, 2011, 04:09 PM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Once the Austrian Succession Crisis and the War of the Quadruple Alliance are resolved, will you tell us more about Spanish colonization in the East Indies?

*futilely rooting for a Spanish united Malay Archipelago + Malay Peninsula*
Their East Indies Adventures are partially spun into this conflict. It's actually a huge reason why their partaking in the Wars of Religion in France are severely reduced. They're sort of in their own splendid isolation, not openly allied with the Quadruple Alliance, but not too friendly with France. They still aid Navarre, of course... but problems with a certain growing power in the East Indies is going to start having an effect on their trade empire, which has receive a new boom in strength and profits since the 1550s.

Not sure what's going to happen to the Malay lands. I mean, Spain still has Malacca... they're still in a much better position than OTL, as Gold isn't just being wasted on foreign wars... but I think a decline is kind of inevitable. Not as bad as OTL of course. And all countries wax and wane. Spain will, as will others.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 06:49 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Mary Tudor following the death of François Ier. She is dressed in the traditional mourning of French Queens: white.

Chronicles: Mary Tudor; Queen Dowager of France

Born: January 20, 1516, Richmond Palace, Kingdom of England[1]
Died: June 9, 1583, Château de Chaumont, Kingdom of France

“I had just entered the service of the King when His Majesty François II fell ill from the great stresses of the heretic rebels and the English invasion of Normandy. It was here that I first saw Her Majesty with that great strength she would show for of her life—she valiantly nursed her husband the king, and did not defer from his side. They had a loving marriage; His Majesty was virtuous and chaste, and he had eyes only for his queen from the day he first set eyes on her. Theirs was a love that lasted until the very end—she was there when he received Extreme Unction and Her Majesty continued to hold his hand until it was almost ice cold. It was then that when they knew he was finally dead the courtiers emptied the room, one by one. His Majesty was dead; they rushed like vultures to seek out the Dauphin, now King. Her Majesty wailed and wailed; I knew it was a true marriage because she showed such sorrow for his death. A dutiful wife in life, she immediately became a dutiful widow in death; with her majestic wardrobe replaced with the deuil blanc of mourning as was customary for a Queen of France. It was then that I knew she was a paragon of a saint. She found solace in her faith, of our Holy Roman Church, something which she had always shared the late King. Surrounded by her loving children, she assumed the position of matriarch for her family in the difficult times that the crown faced during the rebellious times brought on by the Huguenots who sought their own liberties. It is to her that I believe the Kingdom of France was saved and held together.”From the Memoirs of Philippe de la Pole[2], Comte de Saumur; Equerry to François II

“Awful, foul, dowager! Not content with her lot, the fine Châteaux and all too generous jointure of 200,000 Livres given to her by the licentious King, François the first and added upon by his devoted son of the antichrist in Rome, François the second. She is now an old woman, and should do herself well to enjoy what life she has! Yet still she meddles! As she did in the time of her husband, hurrying him to the grave with her craven howls to depose the bastard daughter of that whore who had killed her own mother; nay, now she must continue to torment her son, who is no boy: he is a man of nearly thirty, yet still he takes the advice of his silly old mother into consideration, having let her lead him into two marriages to ‘suitably’ devout women. I must pity Queen Barbara, for we know she is no Queen; the only queen is that wretched Mary, who has even done the vilest of things to the poor Queen, taking away all of children to be raised at Chaumont by her, and letting her only see them once a month. She is a slavish Catholic, devoted to the Pope and devoted to the faction of the Guises; she will not hear of the Dukes of Bourbon and refuses to see neither them nor any Prince of Navarre, for their role in the last rebellion to free us from persecution. Even still, when we are promised peace and toleration, that wicked woman pushes the King to continue to burn all ‘heretics.’ We have no ill for the King, for we know him a good man, even if in his heart he is misguided in the teachings of Rome. We even know Queen Barbara to be a kind woman, who interceded in vain to prevent the burning of several maidens, former nuns who denounced the awful practices and idolatry of Rome to accept the Reformed Religion as the true and right one. Our complaint lies with our wicked dowager, and may she burn in hell for all the blood she has put upon her hands!”From the opening pages of The Books of Hourrors[3], Michael Bourdelot

Mary Tudor’s legacy is supplemented by two legends; those that see her as pious Dowager Queen, without whose advice the House of Valois might have floundered. Yet there is also a darker image, that of the tormented daughter of Katherine of Aragon, whose implacable Catholic tendencies lead to what have been known as the Dark Years, the time where the French Reformers were terribly persecuted by the King of France in an alliance with the House of Guise and the so-called Royal League. A Saint and a sinner; a typical wife and mother or consummate political actress; a hateful, sour old woman, or the gentle loving matriarch of the French Royal Family. These are the many images of Mary Tudor that exist and coexist, damning a complex character as either a saint untarnished, or a monster who unleashed cruel alien practices (attributed to her Spanish blood) upon the French Huguenots for daring to stray from the established church of Rome.

Mary became Queen of France at the age of thirty one and was pregnant at the time. The early years of her husband’s reign she chiefly concerned herself with her younger children. Indeed, while many of her opponents attempted to blacken her as a religious intriguer, she was more devoted to her children more than anything. She oversaw their educations and cherished them, leaving the reigns of the state in the hands of her husband and his councilors. While she was certainly not left in the dark and probably played had some indirect influence over her husband, nevertheless in the early reign of François II, Mary chiefly contented herself with the rearing of her children and social obligations expected of a Queen of France.

One drastic change was the ceremonies at court. The time of François Ier had seen a glittering and rambunctious court, filled with licentious and intriguing courtiers. Indeed, during the time of François Ier, François II and his wife eschewed the court all together except on important state occasions, instead maintaining a separate establishment and court. As with the Valois of the 16th century, the Dauphin’s shuffled between the Châteaux of the Loire Valley, with the Château of Blois favored above all, as well as time spent in Brittany, where François and Mary as the Duke and Duchess of Brittany occupied the Châteaux of Nantes and Clisson. Mary was a staid and intelligent woman, and as such influenced her husband towards a sober lifestyle. The changes at court became immediate upon their ascension, with the new Queen dictating that all her ladies and maids of honor must be “chaste, virtuous, clean and sober.” The Queen ascended into her position as a woman; she even dictated the fashion of her household, with gowns made of silk or damask, with cloaks lined with fur, complete with Spanish influenced hoods that had been popularized by the Queen herself. Colors tended to be more conservative, but not the black swarm dictated by Huguenot propagandists.

The pageantry of François Ier’s reign did not die, but was instead transformed. Indeed, certain religious feasts and Saint’s Days were celebrated with great extravagance and with her children growing up she began to dedicate herself more firmly to the charitable side of her position through the giving of alms and ceremonies such as the touching of the King’s Evil, which while unprecedented for a Queen of France, Mary claimed the right to do so through her claim to the crown of England. And whilst she championed any such a right upon her sons, she still claimed it gave her sovereign rights that were unprecedented for any other consort of France in living memory. It was she with her husband who helped transform the French court into the somber institution that it would not quite recover it’s joviality until the seventeenth century. And whilst the court was well known for its piety and even learning, it was also known for its blank bigotry and climate of fear. In many ways the academic renaissance in France suffered—many brilliant minds, often Huguenot chose to leave France during the dark times, and others still were persecuted and killed because of their opposition to royal religious policy.

Mary first probably tasted politics and left her known and traditional feminine spheres she had dominated since her coming to France following the death of Edward VI. Mary saw herself as the undisputed Queen of England, as did the eyes of many Catholics; Henry VIII’s marriage to Anne Boleyn had been both null and void in Catholic eyes, Elizabeth nothing but a born and bred bastard. Although it was the influence of the Guises that pressed upon François II claiming the crown in right of his wife, it was a position she saw as her own. She saw it as her fount of honor and sovereignty; yet she always valued her position as a wife and mother far more, and is perhaps why instead of pursuing the claim herself, chose to invest it upon two of her sons and even one of her grandsons, seeing more dignity in being the mother and wife of a king than being a queen in her own right. It was this ambiguity that gave Mary the political power that she would wield until her death and one she was accused of wielding her entire life.

This influence came not from sitting on councils. It was strictly a feminine sort of political influence, the kind often conferred upon a mistress. But a loving husband such as François gave Mary no rival and no fount of attentions for the courtiers to play against her. Instead she wielded the dual roles of wife and mistress, being a mother of the king’s legitimate children whilst lifting the king’s spirits with amusements and providing him with political advice on particularly difficult situations. The later became particularly important following the failure of François II’s Imperial policies in both England and Scotland. He suffered a sort of mental break, relying more and more upon not only Mary, but some of his earliest friends, the Duke of Guise and the Cardinal of Lorraine. All three had differing opinions but one single thought in common: that the Huguenots were rabble and little better than heretics.

As François withdrew from the reins of government, he was influenced heavily by both Mary and the Guises who soon sat upon his council. Yet her brief reign soon ended following the death of the King in 1569. Mary became the Dowager, and her eldest son, the Dauphin, was nearly thirty. Twice married with children of his own, he was already married to the Archduchess Barbara. Yet it was a surprise how much François III yielded to his mother. Mary was a woman who cherished all of her children and doted upon all of them. Even as they grew into adults, she remained close to all her children, even her daughters who had long married and left for foreign lands. They were showered them with both loving missives and advice, from the rearing of children to court life. Yet for her son, the King of France, her advice tended to be quite political and it is no surprise that even when he rejected the dominance of the Guises, he still kept his mother close.

Yet Mary initially withdrew into mourning for a husband she had dearly loved. Life in France had always been kind to her, and after her arrival in France, her health seemed to improve. While she still suffered bouts of ill health (especially from irregular periods, where fluids were maintained within the body and caused her great pain at times), she was still able to produce several children and was finally able to live a life that was free of fear. She was sincerely beloved by her husband and by her children too, perhaps giving her the idea that she had been blessed with the life that her own mother should have enjoyed, and that her children were able to grow up as she should have. She mourned not only her husband, but a friend and confidant too. His death meant the loss of status, at least typically; the dowager was not entitled to the crown jewels of the Queen of France should the king be married, and was also forced into a subservient position. Yet once again Mary’s claim to sovereignty saw that she was much more justly treated by her son. The new Queen, Barbara of Austria, while a learned woman, was rather docile. As an act of charity, Mary gave many important jewels to Queen Barbara, but was otherwise allowed to maintain the crown jewels for her lifetime. She continued to hold precedence over the queen at court, as well.

Yet following her mourning period, Mary chose to reside away from court. A more lively atmosphere began to blossom under her son (although it was her grandson who would totally revive the joviality of the court), something she found distasteful. She instead chose to Chaumont, the principal residence bestowed upon her as part of her jointure. Her jointure also was the consideration of some controversy. Despite her suitably royal birth, Henry VIII had been rather stingy in regards to her dowry—aside from her plate and trousseau, François Ier received a total of 40,000 gold florins from the English King, a pittance compared to the fortunes that Henry had reaped from the English monasteries. Thus it was no surprise that Mary’s initial jointure as Dauphine was quite small. It included the Château of Chaumont amongst other lands, with an annual jointure of 15,000 francs[4] to be derived from Touraine should Mary be widowed as Dauphine, with the promise of 35,000 francs should she be widowed as queen.

This initial dowry was based on the miserliness of Henry VIII and long before Mary had charmed her way into the hearts of François I and the hearts of the French court. By 1540, following the birth of an heir to the Dauphin, the King proved much more generous. He bestowed further lands and châteaux upon Mary, with the promise of an annual jointure of 30,000 francs should be widowed as Dauphine, and 75,000 francs should she become widowed as Queen. This jointure was further added upon liberally by François II. He bestowed more lands upon his queen, decreeing that revenues from a wide array of properties, being especially liberal when he deposited upon her the Château of Nantes. Towards the end of her reign, it amounted that her jointure included several grand residences such as the Châteaux at Chaumont and Nantes, several manors, and revenues to be drawn from Touraine, Brittany, and Laguedoc, amongst other French provinces; it was a more extraordinary step when François II decreed that five percent of the revenues drawn from the Gabelle (the hated salt tax), would also form a portion of Mary’s jointure. Known as the Vingtième de la Reine, it was especially despised by Mary’s enemies. Thus when her husband died, she was a grand landowner in her own right, and quite possibly one of the richest women in France, with an annual income of some 200,000 livres, if not more.

Settling primarily at Chaumont, Mary’s years as dower were spent with her grandchildren, the children born to François III and his first wife, Catherine of Spain, and those of Barbara of Austria. The children were reared away from the bustling court; the new King was hardly a doting father and whilst Barbara fretted often over her children, especially her eldest daughter, it was seen as more fitting for the dowager to oversee their educations and raise them as she had own children. Thus the King and Queen of France instead contented themselves with seasonal visits to Chaumont, although Barbara made a point to try and visit more often, at least monthly if possible. Yet even though the children were reared at Chaumont did not mean that Mary officially retired. She made her importance known at court, and her opposition too many of her son’s ‘tolerant’ policies, such as the Estates General that assembled in 1569 and brokered a short peace that did not last the winters of 1573. Mary was even more hated than ever, and feared for her life on some occasions; some of the Huguenot leaders wished to kidnap her and have her firmly detained so that her influence over her son would be tempered. Yet it only reinforced Mary’s attitude against the heretics.

These issues were complicated in 1576. François III, barely seven years on the throne and in the flush of his youth at thirty-six, died. The Dauphin, Henri, at fifteen soon succeeded his father. Although he was technically within his majority, he was even more firmly within his grandmother’s influence than his father had been. Mary brought the new King to Paris and had him installed at the Louvre, and played a powerful role in his coronation. She served as a sort of Regent, and spearheaded many unpopular policies against the Huguenots, opening up a third religious war that culminated in 1579 with the tumult of Orléans. At eighteen, Henri proclaimed his right to reign without his grandmothers advice. He proclaimed a short-lived edict of toleration and exiled his grandmother to Chaumont. The ultimate rejection in her authority came when he wed Marie Louise of Savoy in 1580, openly breaking with the dowager’s desire that he marry one of his cousins, one of her granddaughters in Italy or perhaps Poland. Yet Henri refused to consider such a match and settled upon his Savoyard bride, who soon gleefully demanded (and received, with much glowering), the crown jewels of the Queen’s of France. In many ways, Mary saw situation not much different than that of her mother’s. Yet she was not a queen being displaced by her husband by a younger, more beautiful woman. This was an old dowager who had stubbornly clung to her position now forced to face realities.

Mary’s last years were solitary. Whilst her children had admired, respected, and perhaps even feared her, her grandchildren were unruly and revolted against her smothering behaviors. While she maintained a rather generous income (even following Henri’s abolition of her rights to percentage of the Gabelle), her political dreams were shattered. Her own family had begun to believe the black legend spun by the Huguenots, and she fully retired from court life. At Chaumont she dedicated herself to religious charities and contemplation, even considering entering a convent for a time. Yet in 1583 she expired, a few years shy of seventy. She was not greatly mourned, most of her friends having deceased her years before, and her own grandson, the King of France, quite alienated from her. Her protractors claimed her death a godsend. Not even her funeral was glorious like the life she lived; with the crown in the midst of a great war against the Huguenots, the Triple Alliance, and the empire, she was at first modestly interned next to her husband. Yet in 1600, almost twenty years after her death, a much more extravagant funeral was held, with a new effigy revealed befitting Mary’s status. A Queen in life, she became also one in death; her burial place is well known within St. Denis as it hosts not only the arms of France, but those of England as well.

[1]OTL, she was born at Greenwich on the 16th. Butterflies bring the court at Greenwich and the birth is there a few days late. Due to butterflies we get a Mary Tudor who much like her counterpart, but has her differences.
[2]The son of Edward de la Pole, the ATL son of Richard de la Pole, who survived due to the lack of a Battle of Pavia ITTL. This scion of the Poles have domiciled in France and bear the title of Count of Saumur whilst claiming pretense to the Earldom of Suffolk.

[3]Play on Book of Hours, popular devotional books in the late middle ages.

[4]A gold coin that was minted and first issued by Jean II. It was almost equal to the Livre, abolished in OTL as a coin of legal tender by Louis XIII.

Last edited by DrakeRlugia; December 10th, 2011 at 10:07 PM..
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  #294  
Old December 6th, 2011, 08:59 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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Hm, I wonder how TTL's Henri II is handling things... at any rate the Valois will last into the 17th century at least.

Also, would it be wrong to say that TTL's Mary Tudor is a composite character of OTL's Mary and Catherine de Medici?
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Old December 6th, 2011, 04:54 PM
Yorel Yorel is offline
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Nice update. I didn't expect François III to die so soon, but I'm wathcing how the young Henri II will rule

There is one thing that does bug me: I'm not sure the Queens of France were wearing white when they became widows during the Renaissance. If memory serves me right, OTL Catherine de Medici was always shown wearing black while she was Dowager Queen of France. Then again, we're not OTL: it's possible that the white tradition continued because of butterflies.

I have a bit of a question regarding genealogy: how many children did François III had with his two wives, Catherine of Spain and Barbara of Austria?
Also, what happens to Mary's claim on the throne of England? If memory serves me right, she had her third son (Charles I believe) inherit her claim. You say it passes to one of her grandsons: is it a child of François III or one of Mary's third son?

One last question, just out of curiosity: how do the De La Poles fair in France?
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  #296  
Old December 7th, 2011, 04:46 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Hm, I wonder how TTL's Henri II is handling things... at any rate the Valois will last into the 17th century at least.

Also, would it be wrong to say that TTL's Mary Tudor is a composite character of OTL's Mary and Catherine de Medici?
Yep, not so sickly, and plenty of heirs come the dawn of the 17th century.

In regards to her character: I suppose she could be regarded as a Catherine de Medici, which isn't wrong as she certainly is an intriguer. But her path to power is quite different and she is never formally regent. She doesn't exactly get the ability to reign over two child kings in a row. Her only 'true' shot at power comes way too late, as Henri II soon grows up and rejects her influence. I'd say she's more like herself, given her intransigent attitude. Catherine was much more willing to negotiate and sought to uphold the crown. Mary wishes to do this as well, but typically uses her influence against the Huguenots and refuses any negotiation. Her attitude towards her children is rather Catherine-esque, but perhaps a little more worse/smothering. Especially when she regards her grandson's betrayal as akin to her father rejecting her mother.

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Originally Posted by Yorel View Post
Nice update. I didn't expect François III to die so soon, but I'm wathcing how the young Henri II will rule

There is one thing that does bug me: I'm not sure the Queens of France were wearing white when they became widows during the Renaissance. If memory serves me right, OTL Catherine de Medici was always shown wearing black while she was Dowager Queen of France. Then again, we're not OTL: it's possible that the white tradition continued because of butterflies.

I have a bit of a question regarding genealogy: how many children did François III had with his two wives, Catherine of Spain and Barbara of Austria?
Also, what happens to Mary's claim on the throne of England? If memory serves me right, she had her third son (Charles I believe) inherit her claim. You say it passes to one of her grandsons: is it a child of François III or one of Mary's third son?

One last question, just out of curiosity: how do the De La Poles fair in France?
Queen's of France wore white for mourning. That is, Queens who were mourning whilst they were Queen of France. Catherine never wore white as she became dowager. Mary of Scotland, however wore white, as she mourned her father-in-law and her mother whilst Queen. After François II died, she wore black. Mary Stuart funnily chose to get married in white, causing a bit of a scandal when she later had to wear it when Henri II died. Mary Stuart also chose to wear white primarily before she remarried to Darnley, too.

I would say Saumur is mostly being allegorical. Mary Tudor would've worn white for her father-in-law and probably her brother, Edward VI, but after the death of her husband would wear black. After all, Mary Tudor was very dutiful, so would probably wear black much like Catherine de Medici. Huguenot detractors always want to paint her in a bad light, so they often attack her 'Spanish' style and her train of Jesuits and ladies and maids of honor in black, even though they were simply more conservatively dressed than in François Ier's time. The point of the chronicle is to paint two different pictures and let the reader find their own opinions regarding Mary. Not a saint, not a devil, but just a human.

Mary might consider wearing white in defiance, though. Even during her time of dowager, she never fully steps down as Queen until 1580. During her son's reign, Barbara is docile and still has a less important position towards her, and doesn't even receive the crown jewels. It's Henri II's wife who finally gets them. She also has a high position of herself given her 'claim' to England. Although she gives it to her sons and later grandson, she still views herself with some vested sovereignity that makes her different from a regular consort. Hence her touching of the King's Evil, her claim to continue act as a Queen even after her husband is dead... ect. Many of those things are rooted in her 'righful' claim.

François had one son with Catherine of Spain: the future Henri II. She died giving birth to him. With Barbara he had three more children. Two surviving sons: Louis, Duc d'Anjou and later Orléans and future King of Hungary, and inheritor of the Marian claim to England and Ireland in 1576, and Charles, the Duke of Alençon and later Anjou. They have a daughter, Margaret, who died shortly after birth. Barbara fretting over her eldest daughter is a bit of a mistake; it would've been her eldest son. And yes, it is one of François III's sons who inherits her claim. Her two other surviving sons die without issue.

Also a mistake as I mention Mary's husband François III expanding her dowry... should've been François II, aha. As for the de la Poles, they are doing quite well. They've domiciled into the French nobility; they are thoroughly Catholic and pretty devoted to the royal household. They were greatly rewarded during François II's reign as Mary was quite close to the English branch. They don't receive any legitimization of their claim to be the Earl's of Suffolk, though. They have to content themselves with Saumur. Any claims to be Princes Étranger are similarly rejected, as Mary sees herself as the rightful inheritor and possessor of rights to England. It sort of defeats any purpose of the de la Pole's to take the throne over Elizabeth.

Last edited by DrakeRlugia; December 7th, 2011 at 05:13 AM..
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  #297  
Old December 8th, 2011, 01:09 AM
zraith zraith is offline
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Great character portrayal, fairly unbiased. It almost looked like the French Civil War could have split into a three-way or four-way (Huguenots, Ultracatholics, French King and the Dowager) with the amount of influence that Mary Tudor had at one part in her character study.

The French in the Balkans?! Interesting move, I wonder what kind of trouble that willl bring to the France-Ottomon Alliance signed by Francois I in 1536. Or was that butterflied (I don't think it was touched upon in earlier posts)?
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  #298  
Old December 9th, 2011, 04:27 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Great character portrayal, fairly unbiased. It almost looked like the French Civil War could have split into a three-way or four-way (Huguenots, Ultracatholics, French King and the Dowager) with the amount of influence that Mary Tudor had at one part in her character study.

The French in the Balkans?! Interesting move, I wonder what kind of trouble that willl bring to the France-Ottomon Alliance signed by Francois I in 1536. Or was that butterflied (I don't think it was touched upon in earlier posts)?
Well, the Ottomans are not long for this world. Given that the Italian Wars did not include Habsburg encirclement (Spain remains under the Aviz-Trastamara), there was no need to bring out such an alliance. French ambitions lay in that period as using England as a counter, or even Poland. The Ottomans probably had amicable relations with France but no actual alliance. There was no need as while the Italian conflict was between Habsburg and Valois, it was confined to Italy and the Empire. The war ended once Philip chased the French out of Italy and restored the Sforzas. French ambitions in England and Scotland then took up other attentions.
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  #299  
Old April 7th, 2012, 07:23 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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And it's back from a rather long hiatus, yay! Sorry for the long absence, I was just (simply put), burnt out on this period. Doing so much research wears you out. But I was ready to return, and I bring you the latest chapter in the lead up to the huge blow up that will turn Western Europe upside down, and the beginnings of one of it's periphery conflicts (or rather: what exactly was bad that keeps the Ottomans from taking advantage of everything Although FYI: you could probably get a new name for them after this chapter!)

Enjoy!

The Last Ottoman

1570 to 1585; The Ottoman Empire

Murad, known as the mad, had hardly proved himself a competent ruler. Mentally unstable, the hands of government remained in the hands of his mother, Nurbanu Sultan and her choice of Grand Vizier Hekimoğlu Hasan Pasha, leaving the sultan to content himself with the pleasures of his palace and of his wife, a simple Bulgarian named Mükrime who was hated by Valide Sultan, especially after 1569 for her failure to provide the Sultan with an heir, having borne him instead a very pitiful daughter. The Valide Sultan had had enough of her; and despite there being more pressing matters, she was intent to have her done away with. Despite the rumors of growing discontent in Egypt, the situation in Hungary following the death of the king and the Habsburg invasion, and whispers of the Venetians plotting from Corfu, the Valide Sultan was far more concerned with doing away with a potential rival.

What unfolded would be remembered in the annals of history; while the Ottoman Empire was not shy from such harsh matters, given that barely a century before reigning Sultan’s had gone great lengths to do away with their brothers to avoid being overthrown. Yet conspiracies amongst Nurbanu and the eunuchs within the harem were almost unheard of, except for the sole fact that Murad’s madness had propelled his mother into a position of supreme political importance. While Murad was the Sultan and Caliph, it was his mother who directed policy behind the scenes, despite her own incompetence in dealing with affairs of state, instead preferring to plot against her daughter-in-law while leaving true policy in the hands of the Vizier.

Nurbanu’s plotting culminated when she finally acted against Mükrime in the autumn of 1571, having the woman murdered in cold blood when eunuchs loyal to the Valide Sultan allowed a regiment of drunken Bashibazouks, irregular soldiers often raised for campaigns into Hungary or Iran, into the harem where they proceeded to loot, rape and kill. Yet despite the unfortunate scene, it was very obvious that it had been orchestrated by someone who had something against Murad’s wife. When the Sultan was informed of the grave act that had occurred, Murad flew into a bloodthirsty rage, retaliating against the Bashibazouk regiments in and around Constantinople by letting loose his own household troops to avenge the murder, instigating great unrest within the capital and even causing Murad to move for a time to Edirne with the remnants of his shattered court, all while Constantinople braved the greatest storm since perhaps her collapse in 1453.

It is widely believed that the death of Mükrime drove Murad even further to his psychosis. Becoming increasingly detached from reality, he had no qualms instigating the fight within his own capital; although no amount of bloodshed would bring his beloved Bulgarian back alive, he could at the very least avenge her memory. When Nurbanu urged him to act with restraint, Murad refused to listen. Much as Nero was reviled for fiddling while Rome burnt, Murad was viewed in seemingly similar light in regards to his own apathy while his capital was torn asunder. As the autumn of 1571 frittered away, so did 1572, and by 1573 the Sultan still remained entrenched at the old palace and adamant at his refusal to return to Constantinople. It was at Edirne Murad attempted to assert himself for the first time in his pathetic reign, attempting to lay some blame upon someone, anyone, for the terrible misfortune that had befallen him. Despite the obvious fingers pointing at the Valide Sultan, who had not been above doing away with her own rival decades before, Murad picked a safer target in his Grand Vizier.

Hekimoğlu had been born in Trieste, serving as a shipman in his youth until captured by Ottomans following the defeat of the imperial fleet at Thesprotia. Inducted into the Devşirme system, Hekimoğlu rose to great heights under Nurbanu Sultan’s tutelage, becoming Grand Vizier upon Murad’s ascension and even marrying Nurbanu’s daughter, Princess Amina. He and Nurbanu, controlling the policies of the empire had chosen to retreat in several areas—from the ending of Ottoman meddling in the Indian Ocean through the dismantlement of the fleet at Basra to the release of men from military services and the reduction of garrisons that would have a grave effect on the Ottoman Empire’s ability to project it’s influence abroad. It was his impressive rise to power, along with his policies that had served to alienate previous loyal bases to the empire that allowed Murad to dispense with him so easily. Just as Mükrime had been killed in cold blood, Murad ensured the same punishment: his Grand Vizier was strangled in his bath by a silk cord by a gang of black eunuchs who served the Sultan loyally.

The death of Hekimoğlu deprived Murad of a vital administrator, and the Valide Sultan of one of her most valuable servants and one of the most important links of control that she had over her son. For many months after Hekimoğlu’s death, the position remained unfilled and the Sultan spent his days mulling over designs for the reconstruction of the Old Palace at Edirne, where the Ottoman court remained given the unsettled situation in Constantinople. It was not until Nurbanu finally managed to convince Murad during a period of lucidity that the empire could not be governed by his hand alone and that he needed the aid of an able bureaucrat to guide him. Hekimoğlu was then soon replaced with Manastir Ali Pasha, a Rumelian who had served within that Eyalet for many years. Upon receiving his seals of office, Manastir’s daunting task in front of him was the restoration of some sort of authority. From his exile at Edirne, Murad had been oblivious to the growing storms on the empires border—from the invasion of the Archduke Albert into Hungary in 1567 to the acclaim of the Hungarian elite, while the Venetians had their own designs in the Eastern Mediterranean while terrible conditions began to unfold in Egypt with plotting by the Circassian Mameluks and talk of a possible famine.

Grand Vizier Manastir was swift in his actions by coaxing Murad to finally relocate back to Constantinople, with promises of amnesty for those accused of the previous deeds regarding Nurbanu Sultan’s intrigues against Murad’s consort. Taking up residence once again in a Topkapi Palace that had been torched and ravaged, Murad seemed shaken from his previous cycles that had seen him abandon the duties of statecraft in favor of his own pleasures. Despite still being severely incapacitated and often distracted by minute things (such as plans for the restoration Topkapi), he attempted to involve himself in affairs of state. Yet his mind was almost always elsewhere, and consequently the Valide Sultan once more began to play a role in the reigns of state. All of the horrors, all of the petty bloodshed, everything that Murad had carried out as a means to an end—had all proven futile, as his consort’s murderer remained untouched (and in the eyes of her son, innocent).

One of Murad’s last lucid actions before once more falling back into insanity was authorizing the collection of an army to combat the Austrians in Hungary, in hopes of pushing them back and finding a willing magnate in Hungary to serve as King of Hungary given the extinction of the Zápolya dynasty, with a third Danube Principality to be erected in Transylvania for whatever boyar in the region would be willing to serve the Sultan and pay a nominal tribute. Manastir went to work by engaging a force that grew to nearly 90,000 men, including a great number of Bashibazouks as well as provincial Timariot forces and even elements of the Sultan’s household force, the Kapikulu (which included the Janissary corps), but these were in few number. It was this large force under Damat Pasha that was spectacularly defeated at Karansebesch in 1573, with the loss of some 22,000 men and all but ending any hope of the Ottomans monopolizing Hungary as they had in the reign of Suleiman.

The appointment a new Grand Vizier did not stop the brewing troubles. In Egypt, things were reaching a boiling point, The Mamluks, having chaffed under the arbitrary authority of the Valide Sultan’s cronies long enough revolted in 1575, going so far as to behead the Beylerbey. In their place they hoisted up Ibrahim Pasha Ibn Ridwan, an important member of the Mamluk ruling class. They demanded that Ridwan be made Beylerbey of Egypt, as well as being granted authority over Hebash, Yemen, Damascus, Sidon, and Tripoli, with the right to their own forces and to mint their own currencies. These outrageous demands, had they been considered, would’ve essentially revived the old Mamluk Sultunate under Ottoman tutelage.

Despite smarting from the defeat at Karansebesch, Manastir stood firm against the Mamluk uprising, and went about rebuilding the shattered forces staggering in from the campaign in Hungary. It was under the advice of Manastir that the Ottoman Empire made peace with the Habsburgs, recognizing the nascent election that saw Maximilian, Archduke of Austria and King of Bohemia and Croatia granted the Hungarian crown in order to deal with disorders further east. While Ibrahim Pasha put together a coherent force than began to cross over the Sinai, the Grand Vizier and Sultan soon were met with news of copycat uprisings in Syria and even in Lebanon, spearheaded by the Maronites.

The empire within the late 16th century had entered a decline. Mismanagement under Nurbanu Sultan had alienated many bases of support, and Murad’s madness deprived the empire of a unifying figure. Even Nurbanu’s choices in civil government were lackluster at best, and a culture of graft and incompetence took hold even in the most insignificant portions of the empire, with minor officials acting as powerful deities and alienating the common populace from the government they claimed to represent. All of these problems were compounded by Murad’s lack of an heir, his only offspring being a daughter, Bala Hatun. Although many hoped the removal of Mükrime would force Murad back to his concubines or at the worse force him to take another a consort in hopes of producing an heir. Instead of doing either of these, Murad was possessed by his psychosis which once more consumed him with lust. It was during this period at his exile at Edirne that the Sultan began to spend large amount of times in his harem, a first within his reign. Yet the harem had changed from the time it was reconstituted for Murad under Nurbanu Sultan and the exile at Edirne.

Before the death of Mükrime, Murad shunned the harem and left the women, handpicked by his mother and later himself prior to his obsession, had been left to their undevices. Locked away they had no contact with the outside world and their needs, from food to requests for money were overseen by the chief of the black eunuchs. In many ways, their existence was redundant in the days of Mükrime; existing solely for the Sultan’s pleasure, they were instead ignored, and did not come again to prominent until her death, for Nurbanu Sultan’s assassination of Mükrime had introduced the drunk and bloodthirsty Bashibazouks into the harem, a grave offense given that it was the domain of women (with only the castrated eunuchs able to look over them). Many concubines were raped, murdered, and killed by Nurbanu’s assassins, with a great number of survivors contracting venereal disease. While some of these ‘marked’ women were turned away, others remained behind. The harem, depopulated and demoralized, became very much a symbol of the Ottoman decline.

A crisis developed during the exile at Edirne an ambitious official leaked secrets regarding the poor state of the harem, of the infected concubines and the poor numbers. The chief of the black eunuchs soon panicked and seeking to create the image of a full and blossoming harem took to hiring prostitutes from Edirne’s local brothels to pose as the Sultan’s concubines. It all backfired when Murad, consumed with lust, began to spend time with his concubines more than ever. Aside from the original concubines infected, the imported prostitutes only served to introduce other diseases into the harem, from venereal diseases such as syphilis and physical ailments such as tuberculosis. With the Sultan freely taking the pleasures with both, it was no surprise that he fell ill with syphilis. By the time he returned to Constantinople at the behest of Manastir, he was a broken man and on his last legs. Rendered infertile, there was no longer any hope that a male heir would be born to the Ottoman line. Murad was to truly be the last Ottoman.

It was by now 1580. The Austrians had succeeded in wresting away the Hungarian crown and were openly plotting with the Venetians for a campaign into the Eastern Mediterranean. The Egyptians were independent in all but name, having created a formidable army of trained troops and levies and had even advanced far into Syria where they found support amongst the Sunni aristocracy and gentry. Even the Maronite Christians and the Druze of Mount Lebanon sympathized with Ridwan and his promises that they should be free to govern themselves and worship as they please in exchange for a yearly tribute and to be exempt for all times from fighting in his army. Manastir was overwhelmed by the great intrigues surrounding him, and matters were only further complicated by the death of Nurbanu Sultan in the summer of that year. The loss of his mother was the final break for Murad the Mad. Coughing blood and often too ill to get from bed, he found himself confined much as he had been in his youth, with the empire governed by the Grand Vizier and a council of ministers.

Instead of functioning as an organ of power, however, the Viziers council was fraught with intrigue and Manastir found his policy iniatives paralyzed, such as plans the fortification of Basra and Baghdad (which were both consequently sacked and occupied by Persia, placing yet two more eyelets under foreign occupation). Not even a few short weeks following the Valide Sultan’s death the janissaries seize the person of their sickly Sultan and demand Manastir’s resignation, completing a palace coup that saw Rüstem Pasha become next in the line of Grand Viziers. A Serb from Bosnia, he was Devşirme much like the men who had brought him to power and consequently had their interests in mind. And despite serving in his position for the remainder of Murad’s short life, he was unable to put a stop to the troubles that plagued the empire.

Ridwan’s forces succeeded in taking Damascus and later Aleppo in 1583, while the Safavids invaded from the east, easily taking over Iraq from a demoralized and weakened army. The Ottoman forces, once the jewel of the empire, had fallen into disarray. The Bashibazouks dominated the ranks of the common soldiers, and ambitious commanders relied upon loot more than official payments, often letting their troops go wild in local districts to maintain their loyalty. The economy was in shambles and hunger gripped the land, reducing even the timariots to great hunger. Despite Nurbanu Sultan playing a tough role on the janissaries, they still remained a powerful force and it saw great growth as desperate Christian families passed off their sons in hope that they may have a better life. Yet in general the reign of Murad the Mad had been a disaster; Egypt was openly in revolt, Syria inflamed, Iraq was once more captured by Persia and even Venice had its eyes on the Morea, even managing to occupy Morea in 1584.

Yet for the common people, life was rough. Hard times had decimated trade and economy, and many went hungry. While the new sea routes had profoundly altered trade with the orient for good, the disasters of Murad’s reign were more to blame for the decline of the Levant more than anything. In Anatolia, hungry and out of work people made the long treks towards the Bosphorus, in hopes of creating a new life for themselves in Rumelia. Yet even the Balkans were not spared from the hardship, as there were plenty of tales of Greeks taking leave from once prosperous towns such as Thessaloniki and Constantinople in hopes that relief might be found in Trabzon or Kaffa, in the Crimea; the hardship even caused especially well-off Christians, such as merchants, intellectuals, and aristocrats to immigrate. While many chose to simply take leave for the Danube Principalities, Ragusa, or even Italy (typically Venice and even more rarely, Genoa), a few would later continue on to the rest.

And while the Ottoman Empire suffered in the middle of this crisis, Murad continued to writhe in his sick bed. By 1580 he no longer rose and was incoherent, unable to be consulted by his advisors nor by his physicians. Yet to the surprise of everyone, he surprisingly clung to life—that is, until the winter of 1584. Coming down with a chill, the Sultan became severely ill, and the council did it’s best to plan for the future (to no effect) and still the Sultan clung to life, and for a time it was even believed that he would rally. But instead of rallying, as so many hoped, he died. Murad died in the spring of 1585 at the age of fifty-two.

So gone was the last Ottoman, yet his empire remained. And despite the troubles that wrecked it, in the forms of rebellions and unrest, it was still an empire and a whole. The only question though, was who would rule now?

Last edited by DrakeRlugia; April 9th, 2012 at 04:04 PM..
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  #300  
Old April 7th, 2012, 08:29 AM
Saya Aensland Saya Aensland is offline
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I feel like I just watched a train wreck. A beautiful, gruesome train wreck.
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