Britain Attacks Germany Over Czechoslovakia

[Thucydides]

What would happen militarily if Britain and France attacked Nazi Germany when they attacked Czechoslovakia?

I mean what would their strategies be. What Generals would be in command and in general what would happen militarily.

[wein100]

Do you mean the Munich Agreement and the annexation of the Sudetenland?

[Lord Brisbane]

There was an expectation that Germany would suffer total economic collapse relativly quickly after the begining of a potential war in 1938, and then Britain and France could pretty much just walk in and mop up.

Basically:
The Czech hold out initially, though the Germans make gains, and eventually break through the fortifications stream forth. However Czech industry destroyed or heavily damaged. Gold reserves or other economic materials/resources evacuated.
The British, Empire and French forces consolidate and build up their forces.
German army, worn out after fighting the Czech smash through Belgium (and or Holland).
Stopped around the Somme area.
Battle of attrition, Germany suffers economic collapse.
End of the war by summer 1939.

I read something quite similar in one of the "What If" collections.

[Carinthium]

This would be mitigated, though- Hitler had planned for a war in 1938, so presumably there were actual war plans for it.

[Ace_General]

The nazis would get smashed, they simply didn't have the equipment for it. They needed more time to build up

I think they had like engouh Panzer Is* and half tracks to equip like......

........barely a corps



Basically the war would turn into a semi moving infantry struggle in northern france kinda like the end of WWI with the allies winning by weight of numbers and the fact that there militaries were designed for this particular kind of fight in mind

*you know a panzer I, basically a tin can with a motorcycle engine and a .30 cal machine gun and the whole thing was designed for training

[chris N]

If Britain and France had backed the Czechs and stood up to Hitler then it is quite likely that Hitler would have had to either back down or been overthrown by the German Military. The German High Command knew that any push by the french could not be resisted and Germany would face both economic and military ruin thus IF GREAT BRITAIN and FRANCE had acted they would have overthrown Hilter to save Germany.

[Dilvish]

The Allies naval situation will be even better than in 1940. The Germans used captured Czech tanks to equip some panzer divisions. Does anyone have the numbers on how much of the panzer force was made up of Czech tanks in 1939 and 1940?

One interesting tidbit is that Britain was buying armor plate from Czech factories for her warships. British factories could produce all the heavy armor plate needed, but not all the thinner armor needed for the planned cruisers and carriers. Having those Czech factories still around in 1939 and maybe later; I don't know if that makes a difference at all.

dilvish

[Tuhachevskey]

you need alternative Frence for it.

[Grimm Reaper]

Germany had less than 35 divisions available to invade Czechoslovakia including three incomplete panzer/mechanized divisions and effectively nothing to hold against France or Great Britain.

Czechoslovakia had a military arguably superior to Poland's and with strong border defenses and much better interior lines(roads, railroads, etc).

Even if Germany manages to defeat Czechoslovakia and that somehow Czech industry isn't remotely damaged or disrupted what does that leave Germany with to face France and the UK after lost men and equipment, destroyed Czech equipment no longer available for use, the garrison in Czechia and the forces to keep an eye on Poland are deducted? 20 weak divisions?

[CalBear]

If the British and French hadn't GIVEN Czechoslovakia to Hitler he would never have tried for it. The Czechs had enough combat power to give the 1938 Germany pause (look at the number of Pz-35(t) & Pz-38(t) tanks the Germans used in Poland and France. ALL from Czech factories) and they simply didn't have enough troops, tanks, aircraft, or munitions to stop the UK and French if they decided to have a go at the Nazis.

Unfortunately, the West decided that it was better to give up others rather than fight, with tragic consequences.

[Derek Jackson]

In OTL in WW1 Germany suffered hugely because of the blockade. The Royal Navy still ruled the waves in the 1930s.

However stuff can still be obtained overland. How possible would it have been for the Nazis to have obtained imports via Poland- possibly from Stalin (this is assuming no Hitler Stalin formal pact

[Emethyst]

It would be suicide for Hitler to attempt such a move. The German military at this point was very weak, and from what I remember in case of war with Czechoslovakia, the Germans planned to leave a screening 'skeleton' force along the western front and use the majority of their forces to try to defeat the Czechs, hopefully in time to try and meet whatever push the Allies would (if they defended the Czechs) attempt.

Of course such a conflict happening is IMO not very likely, I cannot see Chamberlain trying to stand up to Hitler over the Sudetenland, he wanted peace.

[seraphim74]

Originally posted by Derek Jackson

In OTL in WW1 Germany suffered hugely because of the blockade. The Royal Navy still ruled the waves in the 1930s.
However stuff can still be obtained overland. How possible would it have been for the Nazis to have obtained imports via Poland- possibly from Stalin (this is assuming no Hitler Stalin formal pact

Chances were slim to none. In 1938 Poland had actually not so terrible relations with Germany and rather cold attitude towards Czechoslovakia (in worked both ways) but there was no way Poland would have supported Germany against French-British-Czechoslovakian alliance. More likely Warsaw would have jumped to join the war hoping for some territorial gains (in Silesia, most probably) and short victorious war to strengthen shaky position of the Sanacja goverment. And even if Poles had decided to stay neutral, they would have never dared to offend their main ally, France, by allowing Germany to get supplies from Soviet Union -which, BTW, wasn't exactly Poland's best friend either.
In case of western Allies intervention in Czechoslovakia France would have certainly called Poland for help - 30 divisions right at German doorstep was not something to laugh about (10 other divisions to secure eastern border). Poles would have demanded some territorial gains and then attacked. Probably Silesia, almost certainly Danzig. Or, if they felt really adventurous, straight from Poznań to Berlin. They wouldn't have taken it, of course, but considering German forces engaged at the same time against Czechoslovakia and in west against France they would almost certainly caused considerable panic in German capital. The news about Poles standing at the Oder would have been enough to force German Army to take Hitler out and ask for peace.

[Astrodragon]

The problem is, why would Britain attack?

At that time, the RAF was still non-existant as a useful force, and there wasnt a usable radar chain to direct it. As everyone was convinced that bombing would destroy nations, its rather easier ro see why the British wouldnt intervene (Chamberlains actions were still stupid, but I suspect noone would argue too much at the time)

The French were also terrfied of the Luftwaffe at the time, so again would they have done anything?

It basically falls to the French anyway, if they do nothing Britain cant do anything meaningful.
Even if France and Britain declare war, can the French get themselve in motion before Germany effectively wins? They werent exactlly paragons of mobility in 1939...
And while Poland would be a big help, again they arent going to do anything unless France and Britain declare war and look like doing something effective - they'd mobilise, I suspect, but not go any further until they could see what was hapenning.

I'm also wary of the stock 'oh, the Generals would have deposed Hitler' that keeps getting tossed around in these scenarios. Even after years of dire descisions, they didnt exactly do a sterling job of getting rid of him, did they....?

[Sol Invictus]

Originally Posted by Lord Brisbane

There was an expectation that Germany would suffer total economic collapse relativly quickly after the begining of a potential war in 1938, and then Britain and France could pretty much just walk in and mop up.

Basically:
The Czech hold out initially, though the Germans make gains, and eventually break through the fortifications stream forth. However Czech industry destroyed or heavily damaged. Gold reserves or other economic materials/resources evacuated.
The British, Empire and French forces consolidate and build up their forces.
German army, worn out after fighting the Czech smash through Belgium (and or Holland).
Stopped around the Somme area.
Battle of attrition, Germany suffers economic collapse.
End of the war by summer 1939.

I read something quite similar in one of the "What If" collections.

But Czecheslovakia pretty much surrendered. So the the above does not work.

[Bry]

Britain's own position in 1938 was far, far worse than when war actually came... Indeed, in 1938-9 British military spending was only just catching up with German- in that sense an early conflict would have harmed the United Kingdom more than the Nazis. Fundamentally, Britain was not ready for war in '38- psychologically as much as militarily. I don't think there was ever any real chance of it happening.

On the other hand, it is perhaps the case that Hitler was more cautious over Czechoslovakia than he later was over Poland- it is possible that he would have backed down or even been removed from power by worried generals...