Scottish-Irish Union in 1483?

[Diogenes]

Would it be ASB for Scotland and Ireland to sign an Act of Union in 1483?

[KEVP]

Why 1483 of all imaginable years?

[Tyr]

Why would just Scotland and Ireland do it? The king of England also ruled Ireland.
And he was a different man to the king of Scotland.

[Octavian]

I would guess it would ASB, just because Ireland and Scotland have celtic heritage it doesn't mean that they automatically love eachother and have the same exact cultures.

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by KEVP

Why 1483 of all imaginable years?

I dunno, the idea sprung into my mind when I was looking at Roberto's 1493 map, and since a Scottish diplomat died in 1493, I had though that perhaps Scotland could do what England did to Wales and take it over diplomatically.

Originally Posted by Leej

Why would just Scotland and Ireland do it? The king of England also ruled Ireland.
And he was a different man to the king of Scotland.

Yes, but looking at Roberto's map, since England had control of only Dublin, I had come to the same conclusion as above.

Originally Posted by Octavian

I would guess it would ASB, just because Ireland and Scotland have celtic heritage it doesn't mean that they automatically love eachother and have the same exact cultures.

Yes, I know that, but seeing as they both hated the English, I had thought.....well, just look above.

[037771]

I know this is earlier, but there is a possible POD.

You know Robert the Bruce's brother? He came to 'liberate' Ireland from the English when Edward II was King. He failed of course, the Irish were massacred; but if he succeeded, then perhaps Ireland could be Scottish, or at least in personal union with Ireland....

[Tyr]

Originally Posted by ErInGoBrAgH

Yes, but looking at Roberto's map, since England had control of only Dublin, I had come to the same conclusion as above.

It was a feudal country. Its hard to define what counted as independant and what counted as part of the country. Its the same problem as with trying to make maps of France and Germany in the time period.
'England' did more or less directly control Dublin. Beyond that though there were a few earls who were under the Lord of Ireland to varying degrees and a few other rulers who totally did their own thing and didn't even pay lip service to the monarch.
It was all 'officially' in union with England though.

I doubt you'd find much pan-celticness in the 15th century though even if you do install modern nationalist thinking. Scotland by this time had well and truly became a anglo-saxon country with the celts being those scary poor people up in the hills.

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by 037771

I know this is earlier, but there is a possible POD.

You know Robert the Bruce's brother? He came to 'liberate' Ireland from the English when Edward II was King. He failed of course, the Irish were massacred; but if he succeeded, then perhaps Ireland could be Scottish, or at least in personal union with Ireland....

Aha! I knew someone would know! So, the POD would be around 1315-18, yes?

Originally Posted by Leej

I doubt you'd find much pan-celticness in the 15th century though even if you do install modern nationalist thinking. Scotland by this time had well and truly became a anglo-saxon country with the celts being those scary poor people up in the hills.

Yeah, thats a very good point, but my thinking wasn't modern day pan-celticness thinking. I thought that perhaps the Scottish and Irish, both hating the British, might unify.