Islam Nonexistant - What Religious Effects?

In OTL, Mohammed developed and spread the religion we now know today as Islam. However, what if he had been removed from the scene by one of the rival Meccan tribes who were opposed to his teachings? What kind of world would have developed in the absence of the Islamic eruption that transformed the Middle East in the decades to come? Would Christianity have continued to hold sway in the area? Zoroastrianism? Judaism?Gnosticism? Hinduism out of the east? What might become of these religions and the cultures related to them? How might the rest of the world been affected by no Crusades, no bloody conquests (at least none from Islamic armies or vengeful Christian ones anyway) and no mass conversions?

Have at it!
 

Keenir

Banned
What kind of world would have developed in the absence of the Islamic eruption that transformed the Middle East in the decades to come?

a less sane one.

Would Christianity have continued to hold sway in the area?

Christianity held sway in 7th Century Arabia?

Zoroastrianism? Judaism?Gnosticism? Hinduism out of the east?

you forgot Shinto and Buddhism.

What might become of these religions and the cultures related to them?

they would have become

How might the rest of the world been affected by no Crusades, no bloody conquests (at least none from Islamic armies or vengeful Christian ones anyway) and no mass conversions?

why exactly would there be no mass conversions? ever hear of Byzantium? (or how that empire treated its Christian minorities and Jews)
 
Originally Posted by SavageDays
What kind of world would have developed in the absence of the Islamic eruption that transformed the Middle East in the decades to come?

a less sane one.

How so? Not saying yes or no either way, but how and why?


Quote:
Would Christianity have continued to hold sway in the area?
Christianity held sway in 7th Century Arabia?

In the area...not necessarily Arabia, but in the Romanized Middle East around the Eastern Mediterranean. Arabia is its own area...so what might have happened there without Islam?


Quote:
Zoroastrianism? Judaism?Gnosticism? Hinduism out of the east?
you forgot Shinto and Buddhism.

OK, go ahead and add them to the list.


Quote:
What might become of these religions and the cultures related to them?
they would have become

Go a llitle further than that!!! Take one area and talk about what may have happened!


Quote:
How might the rest of the world been affected by no Crusades, no bloody conquests (at least none from Islamic armies or vengeful Christian ones anyway) and no mass conversions?
why exactly would there be no mass conversions? ever hear of Byzantium? (or how that empire treated its Christian minorities and Jews)

As I said, "vengeful Christian" ones. I am fully aware that Christianity is no better than its Islamic counterparts in forced conversions!!! My bad...let's rephrase it and state that Islam's forced conversions are taken out of the equations. Christianity is still fair game.
 

Speed37

I think Judaism or Buddhism would taking over the middle east but manly Judaism because Judaism was there all ready there.
 
you forgot Shinto and Buddhism.
Shinto wouldn't make it to Arabia. Buddhism perhaps, but I'd doubt it overtake either a sect of Christianity, Hinduism or Judaism. Maybe Zoroastrianism.

From what I remember, paganism and Christianity were the two foremost religions in the pre-Islamic Middle East.
 
I think Judaism or Buddhism would taking over the middle east but manly Judaism because Judaism was there all ready there.

Judaism could never have been a big religious movement because of how you get in the religion. It is hard to convert to Judaism. You are a Jew if your mother is a Jew. That is why "Jews" are considered a race as well as religion.

For this reason, we would have seen an either polytheistic or Christian Middle East.
 
Except that Judaism, unlike either Christianity or Islam, is not evangelical and doesn't necessarily seek to gain new membership, since they see themselves as the chosen people. I think that, most likely, Zoroastarianism might have become a lot more important in the Middle East without Islam.

North Africa however remains Christian, although there's still the chance of further schisms (Arianism wasn't dead yet in the 7th century AD if I'm not mistaken, as well as other christian sects). I can't see Bhuddism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc. making many inroads into the Middle East simply because there's the already zoroastarian Iran in between.
 

Speed37

Judaism could never have been a big religious movement because of how you get in the religion. It is hard to convert to Judaism. You are a Jew if your mother is a Jew. That is why "Jews" are considered a race as well as religion.

For this reason, we would have seen an either polytheistic or Christian Middle East.

So you cant go to Synagogue or a Rabbi and ask to become a jew?
 

Nikephoros

Banned
Zinda Off-Topic: How much of a following did Christianity have in the areas under the control of Sassanid Persia. Enough for it to become a religion of the lower classes?

Need ta know for a timeline I am writing.
 
Zoroastrianism...how might this come into conflict with Christianity? Would it take Islam's place as the "rival" religion to fight over whose ideology is correct and "just?" I'm not an expert on the followings of Zoroaster...it is viable as a strong rival?
 

Nikephoros

Banned
Zoroastrianism...how might this come into conflict with Christianity? Would it take Islam's place as the "rival" religion to fight over whose ideology is correct and "just?" I'm not an expert on the followings of Zoroaster...it is viable as a strong rival?

The Sassanids tried to use zoroastrianism against christianity, but the results were probably mixed.
 

Keenir

Banned
Zinda Off-Topic: How much of a following did Christianity have in the areas under the control of Sassanid Persia. Enough for it to become a religion of the lower classes?

Need ta know for a timeline I am writing.

well, before (and after?) Constantine's conversion, the Persian Emperors were contemplating making Christianity a protected faith in the Persian Empire.

that's all I know, though; sorry.
 

ninebucks

Banned
Judaism shouldn't be written out completely, there were Jewish communities spread throughout Arabia, some of them quite prominent and powerful.

An Islamless Middle East would probably be much more religiously diverse. With Christianity as the dominant religion, but with many other religions represented; Judaism in the west and south-west, and in towns along important trade routes, pockets of pre-Christian pagan religions in out-of-the-way places, Zoroastrianism in Mesopotamia, and in the south, its possible Eastern philosophies will take root as a result of trans-Indian Ocean trade.
 
I do remember picking up the odd comment here and there in books that state that Islam had a pretty influential impact on the early development of Christianity, given that the theology of the latter was still relatively unsettled even as late as the 7th century - the obvious example being Iconoclasm
 
I think the Middle East would get dominated by both Orthodox Christianity (including "heretical" movements and sects) and Persian Zoroastrianism over the course of time... Maybe even some weird blend of them ? Who knows...

On the other hand, maybe another Muhammed will show up somewhere else in the Middle East, combining Christianity, Judaism and Arabian pagan/folk tradition and customs into a religion similiar to OTL Islam ? You never know... The possiblities are infinite.
 
I agree with Petike.

The major "Political" effect of Islam was that united the Arabs into a powerful force, that expanded into the rest of the Middle East, into North Africa, and even Spain. No Islam means that expansion doesn't happen, and the Arabs remain disunited. The Arabic language does not spread out of the Arabian peninsula.

In your TL, the Middle East (at least at first) remains dominated by the Christian Byzantine Empire (who also dominate North Africa) and the Zoroastrian Sassanid Empire.

And that time the major Christian leaders were the "Metropolitans", the bishops of Rome, Jerusalem, Constantinople, Antioch, and Alexandria. If one of these got out of line the other four could usually bring them back. In OTL the Islamic expansion into Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria left only two of these leaders, in Rome and Constantinople, which led to disputes between the two and ultimately a split between "Western" and "Eastern" Christianity. But if there is no Muslim expansion into the Middle East and North Africa, the more stable arrangement of five metropolitans would last longer, and the split might never happen.

But having said that, at the time Spain was ruled by the Visigoths, who were not supporters of the Christianity of the Roman Empire, with its Nicene Creed, but instead adhered to a variety of Christianity called Arianism (after its founder, Arius). If Visigothic Spain is not conquered by the Muslims, then the Arian version of Christianity would survive longer.

KEVP
 

Valdemar II

Banned
One interesting national/linguistic effect could be that the Kurds stay mostly Zoroastrian, and as such doesn't split from the Persians.

A Jewish Kingdom has a good chance to survive in Yemen, if Ethiopia doesn't destroy them, of course you could also see the Jews overrun Ethiopia, a Christian-Islamic alliance defeated them in OTL. It could be interesting with Jewish majorities in Yemen and Africas Horn. Beside that Jews did convert other at the time it was only the punishment for trying to convert the faithful in Islamic and Christian societies that made them stop.
 
Without the big hard Islamic block in the way buddhism could well spread westward- bare in mind buddhism at its core isn't a religion, its a philosophy. Could be interesting to see how it mixes with christianity.
 
But having said that, at the time Spain was ruled by the Visigoths, who were not supporters of the Christianity of the Roman Empire, with its Nicene Creed, but instead adhered to a variety of Christianity called Arianism (after its founder, Arius). If Visigothic Spain is not conquered by the Muslims, then the Arian version of Christianity would survive longer.

I'm not so sure. By the time of the Muslim conquest the Visigoths were already converted to Catholicism. There would no reason for a conversion back to Arianism. BTW, were there any Arian leaders left by the year 700?
 
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