A Shift in Priorities

[Josephus]

Latin America would be a lot more 'stable', sure, the same way Eastern Europe would've been more stable under long-term Nazi occupation and settlement. The situation is roughly analogous.

[nerdknight01]

¡ Hi ! ¡FRAK !, ¡ AWESOME !.

And this is the reason for what some nights i don´t sleep. Well done.

If she escape, this situation it be going to having big waves in Washington and the Pentagon (¿there exist in this timeline?), and the fights and blames between army and navy, the security service, etc... it be really EPIC, if i live in that timeline, i pay some dollars for read in the american newspapers about that Olga, first in a navy ship and latter in a navy base, and why i have the female liberations groups have a new interesting example of "the new woman".

Peace, good night and good luck.

[Kitiem3000]

Say what you will about the Russians, but they train their people to define hardcore.

[Solroc]

Originally Posted by Kitiem3000

Say what you will about the Russians, but they train their people to define hardcore.

*snip*

You took my wallpaper!

Anyway, long time lurker, first time poster for this TL. Nice job so far rast.

[nerdknight01]

¡ hi ! to Solroc: ¡ WELCOME !

Peace and good night.

[Solroc]

Hello, nerdknight. And thank you.

[trekchu]

He. Spetznas < Special Air Service.

[nerdknight01]

¡ Hi ! to Shogo: I see a lot of problems, in some ideas.

1.-For begginning, the McAdoo stu.. administration are how to say, pushing and bet and sacrifice lifes and resources for creating a puppet goverment in México, and the problem is that solution is death or totally crushed, and don´t have the will, inmagination or resources for a "B PLAN", you know.

2.-In this moment, ALL of the mexican population because the crimes, the violence, the deaths,etc... see as the american´s ground troops as THE ENEMY, not more, not less.

3.-And because all this and much more, there exists now only two real options:
The peace of one mexican free country.
Or the peace of "everybody is dead" you know

[nerdknight01]

In anyway, the sad part is the "golden generation" who it be fighting in some years the ww2, in this timeline are broken, as death, wounded, or are members of biker´s and criminal gangs (somebody say Bradley for example), and worst, because these unwining conflict the hands who will working for the survival of America are losen, every day a piece of the american soul´s, dream and heart are losen, and are beggining to see, the first wispers against the american constitution, bill of rights, by "temporary cancelation", "temporary suspension", etc... the same empty promises of tiranic definitive dictators or military goverments, or werever...

And for last, i thinks some hours about about the economic problems of América as the great depresion, the dust bowl, the southern nightmare,
the damages by terrorism, by poors, by wounded incapacitated war´s veterans, by broken enterprises, etc..., in short, because this wave of problems, how to say, in what point of this magic timeline the wise american´s economists/money peoples will see and say: "WE ARE BROKEN, WE ARE SCREWED", you know.

Peace, good night and good luck.

[Shogo]

A free Mexico is extremely unlikely to be a peaceful one, nerd.

If people think the problems OTL Mexico has been having with the drug cartels is bad . . . It'll look like a God damn picnic compared to any hypothetical Free Mexico TTL may see. (Assuming a Free Mexico even happens.)

------------

And that's just one of the problems this hypothetical country might have.

[Jotun]

That's about right, Shogo. Nevertheless, the catalyst was the 1922 Great Southern Conquest. I cannot see any other way ITTL that could have seen so much radicalization on both sides. Now the world has to live with the plague of hard drugs much earlier than OTL...

[Monty Burns]

Originally Posted by nerdknight01

In anyway, the sad part is the "golden generation" who it be fighting in some years the ww2, in this timeline are broken, as death, wounded, or are members of biker´s and criminal gangs (somebody say Bradley for example

That would be to early to postulate, as we do not know how long the US will fight this dirty war. I hope that it wouldn't take that long. But what can be taken as granted is that many of those golden generation kids will have fathers, uncles or neighbours broken in the way you describe.

If the US insists on continuing their Southern "Conquest", the Golden generation will be as you describe. And it will be the generation that will be accused of mass murder, war crimes and atrocities. Yet another, although sad, irony ITTL.

[Monty Burns]

Originally Posted by Shogo

But I still say in the long run, a victorious America is the lesser evil and thus the option I will support.

Short of genocide I don't see a victorious US. As you said, support for the rebels is widespread among civilians. And random shooting of peasants and other atrocities as described in the last posts will increase that support further.

Originally Posted by Shogo

A free Mexico is extremely unlikely to be a peaceful one, nerd.

If people think the problems OTL Mexico has been having with the drug cartels is bad . . . It'll look like a God damn picnic compared to any hypothetical Free Mexico TTL may see. (Assuming a Free Mexico even happens.)

I'm also aware that the state that likely would emerge from these rebels if the US retreated would be quite scary. Kind of communist-drug baron-criminal mix. But is endless occupation really the best countermeasure?

I think it would be easier and cheaper for the US to stand on some well defended frontier on guard with all those troops that, right now, are spread all over Mexico and under constant attack. I'd imagine something analogous of Israel's fences to the Gaza strip and the Westbank.



Considering drugs in general it seems that ITTL drug abuse is so widespread that even levelling Mexico completely wouldn't end that. After all, the disgruntled grunts are already trying to create control over the whole supply chain. I'd go for legalization and state-owned monopolies in drugs - yet ultimately we do not know what to do today, so...

[wietze]

Originally Posted by rast

Some corrections need to be made:

1. Bulgaria has the whole Dobruja up to the Danube.

2. Albania has been given the south-eastern half of OTL's Kosovo. Bulgaria has the north-eastern Kosovo and Serbia up to and including Nish.

3. The German speaking part of Südtirol belongs to the Grand Duchy of Tyrolia.

4. Romania does not own Odessa, the border runs halfway between Odessa and OTL's border between Romania/Ukraine.

5. Czechia is somewhat smaller, opposite the Grand Duchy of Austria more people opted for Austria/Germany.

7. Georgia doesn't extend that far north; it's formed like OTL's Georgia. The area north of the mountains belongs to Mountainous Republic of Northern Caucasus, another German/EVEG puppet.

8. Tunesia is independent.

9. Great Britain ought to be in one colour, otherwise the German states would have to be shown as well.

Done

for czechia i corrected according to the 1911 demographics map. removed german areas from czechia. Used same map to determine what was german & italian speaking in süd-tirol.

As for the ukraine, the border was made to your remark that the border was at tuzly(which is east of odessa, edit - just saw there are 2 tuzly's).
[put the Romanian border at the river Dnjestr now, which seems logical. As Romania has Moldova, the border runs from the point of otl moldova to the sea.]

made border at other tuzly

nerdknight, the purple rectangular area east of poland/south of Latvia is the Heymshtot.

[Shogo]

I guess . . . I will still push for America to achieve victory. No matter the cost.

But even if they do pull out, I don't think they'd abandon all of Mexico. I mean, the less of Mexico they bother trying to control the more they can do with less. But I'm sure pride will demand that they keep a fair amount of Northern Mexico.

Attach Baja California to the rest of California or something.

---------------

I guess . . . I dunno . . . It feels like our choices are a lot of short term suffering to pacify Mexico . . . Or a lot of suffering spread out over a lengthy period of time if the Rebels are allowed to claim victory. (And yet the severity of the short term suffering solution in relation to the long term one . . . Bah!)

And I still say only a naive fool would even begin to believe the Mexicans would stop coming after America.

Tricky. Tricky. A real test of those who think the ends justify the means.

*strokes a beard he by all rights should have shaved off long ago . . .shaving sucks.*

[rast]

This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.
(President William G. McAdoo)

With unbridled screams of pleasure, Geneviève Lacroix was inviting Jean Luc to stab her harder and quicker.

The thought of an impending new massacre had made her incredibly randy. Gobinaux and that semi-moron Rousset had gone out to attack the New York City Subway. After the Times Square Bombing, they had only few packs of hexogen left; but derailing some trains didn’t require much explosives.

Drinking some wine together, Geneviève had lewdly teased Jean Luc to screw her. It was not difficult to tease Jean Luc, his prick always seemed to be ready for interaction. Quite a difference to Gobinaux: The little man’s little man only became erect after he had killed somebody. And Rousset was only allowed to penetrate her bum, she would never admit that fat jerk’s pecker to her pussy.

Spreading her legs as far as she could, Geneviève pressed her body against Jean Luc’s pushes. Shrieking and moaning, she felt an orgasm coming…

But then, the door was busted wide open and a horde of armed men shouting aloud invaded the room…

Alexander M. Palmer, the director of the FCFA, wasn’t exactly satisfied. The woman, which Harry Olsen had described in his letter as ‘pale blonde freckle-faced squeeze with blue eyes’, and the ‘greasy mack type with undulated long brown hair’ had been captured. – But the ‘little nervous man, just five feet tall and half-bald’, whom Harry had believed to be the leader, and the ‘fat hulk with the spiteful face’ were missing.

Okay, without Harry Olsen’s description, they wouldn’t have known at all for whom and what to look. So, that had been quite helpful. – It was sheer misfortune that two gang members had been absent. But once the gang’s lair had been localised, Palmer had ordered immediate seizure – waiving careful observation.

Well, that had perhaps been a mistake. Even thorough interrogation of the two seized terrorists might not produce an opportunity to catch the missing two, although he had already authorised the use of Doctor Bleckwenn’s truth drug – or of alcohol, should the former fail. These two creatures had to talk.

Of course, the flat was kept under surveillance as well, in case the missing two should return. And so far, the whole action had successfully been kept secret from the media.

When two New York City Subway trains were derailed almost simultaneously by blowing the rails, killing more than a hundred people and injuring almost five hundred, Palmer knew what the missing terrorists had been up to.

But then, miraculously, the ‘little nervous man’ and the ‘fat hulk’ turned up near the flat – and were immediately arrested.

So, the four terrorists described in Harry Olsen’s letter had eventually been captured. They certainly were the perpetrators of the Times Square Bombing and the derailed subway trains – because the hexogen supplied by Olsen had been used in these cases. Whether they really were ‘Action La Salle’ and also responsible for the Buffalo, Detroit and St. Louis bombings – or only copycats – still had to be established.

Frustrating was, nevertheless, that only with the help of criminals – Harry Olsen and the New York organised crime – it had been possible to catch them. – But on the other side, this made sort of glad – even criminal Americans obviously still felt as Americans – and where ready to defend their turf against foreign scum...

[wietze]

i think they will probably try to keep the oilrich areas in the east, and baja at the west. The areas with oil make economical sense. And i agree at this point the rebels won't stop coming after the us even if they all leave now. This whole situation has grown to feud/vendetta status.
Am thinking that at this point the only way they can really pacify Mexico is ethnic cleansing, force all the Mexicans to leave Mexico.
but even that will only be a temporarily solution, because they will have to massively reinforce the border to stop them from coming in.

The us might be able to pull that off but at which price, i am afraid the price will be very high economical, morally and in blood. Especially because i am thinking the ethnic cleansing will not stay limited to Mexico, but will also be done in the us itself.

[zeppelin247]

is Action La Salle really just four people or is it a big network and these are just one section of it

[Monty Burns]

Originally Posted by wietze

Done

Thank you again, great work!

Now since the map has been approved we may have a look into some parts that didn't get mentioned so far AFAIK.

Carpato-Ukraine was historically part of Hungary, which only reluctantly gave away Slovakia, right? So is it really Ukrainian? I do not remember it being mentioned ITTL.

I also wonder whether the Kuban area shouldn'T be Ukrainian. A quick-check at Wikipedia didn't give any demographics, I just assumed it would be predominantly Russian and hence not necessarily part of the north-caucasus republic?

[Shogo]

Yes. There are so many tricky things about the Mexico situation. And the ugliness simply won't go away. The attacks won't stop.

I know what America likely has to do to get that victory and I hate the methods employed by both sides but . . . Bah. I'm standing by my assessment of the situation and the likely futures the various outcomes might create.

At the end of the day I really do think that an American victory, knowing full well that a victory would mean, would be the lesser evil. (I'm thinking in the long term. I honestly think a Rebel victory can only make things worse for the forseeable future.)

-----------------------

Also. Fucking nice. Action La Salle has been captured. It's a damn shame they were able to hit the subways before they were grabbed, but at least these four have been stopped.

-----------------------

And the map is really helpful as far as getting a better feel for the way the world is turning out.

Do you plan on showing more regions? Maybe eventually combining it all together for a full, world map?