A Shift in Priorities

[abc123]

Originally Posted by altamiro

They are ready for a colonial war - Mittelafrika can crush Liberia even if a few US units are supporting the latter. After that, as already stated, there cannot be a full size war as both countries don't have the power projection capacity for anything beyond an occasional harassment raid.

Unless, of course, USA gain the support of an industrialized European country (strong enough to defend itself for a while) to act as a staging area. Preventing this is first and foremost the task of the Auswärtiges Amt... who, ITTL, don't even get a chance to do their job.

And I'm curios how's that in cabinet session were not Wehrmacht Chiefs of Staff? Also chief of Abwehr?
Or Schneidermann cabinet does not needs military and intelligence advice?


Also, events in Liberia happening between 6-7 h A.M.
And goverment in Berlin makes decisions allready in 10???

WTF?
There were no CNN back then.
Communication was slow.
If by 10 h german command in Gross Togoland knows what really happend there, it's a great example of german efficiency. By noon word might come to Dar es Salaam. By 15 h it MIGHT come to Wunsdorf. And chancellor would probably not get it by dinner.
After that, at least 2 hours to convene cabinet meeting, plus that about 1/4 of ministers will most probably be out of Berlin.
So they have to be consulted by telephone.
So, most probably, they will wait for tomorow for a cabinet session, when more intelligence informations are available.

[glowjack]

Does it matter, if your punched in the face you wound usually punch back instead of waiting for another one while you wonder "what motive can he have for punching me?"

Yes yes all the arguments above are valid but I'm tired of seeing mostly rational and informed decisions in this TL, people make mistakes, not everything is clear or logical not everyone wants to spend on education or equality. Shit happens and it happens because most people are human.

[abc123]

Originally Posted by glowjack

Does it matter, if your punched in the face you wound usually punch back instead of waiting for another one while you wonder "what motive can he have for punching me?"

People don't usualy punch other people in the face just like that, so that other fellow dont know the reason for that.

[Nivek]

I agree with all the present who said who become pretty anachronical the extremly quick actions take it, even in ww2 for lack of good notice of the front, both side make very big important mistake(i think midway was one)

And in general is yes... The Dead of the German Kaiser can even avert the war, but the killing of some colonial force now start another shoting war between two of the great power(Germany and USA), in general that need a pretty retcon... but is a suggestion.

[Van555]

Huh take the americans down!

for justice!

[glowjack]

Originally Posted by abc123

People don't usualy punch other people in the face just like that, so that other fellow dont know the reason for that.

Well then I would like to meet you in person and take advantage of that

And it'll seem Like the Great Game(a polite way of calling mass exploitation) again with America and Germany instead of the original colonial powers.

[rast]

Cables are also called the 'Internet' of the Victorian era.

Von Bauer is in Groß Togoland, where he can rely on the largest wireless station in Africa. He has direct radio contact with his subordinate commanders and cable contact with Daressalam and Wünsdorf.

In quite the same way, Admiral Brumby has radio contact with the Atlantic Fleet HQ in the US.

News travel fast; transmitting pictures is still a problem, but the word wanders quickly.

[rast]

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
(Friedrich Nietzsche)

The noon time editions of the German newspapers focused on the unjustified attack on SMS Mbandaka, the cold-blooded carnage at Tabou and the seizure of German vessels by the USA. That the US task force had been somewhat mauled was subsumed under the slogan that US aggression had determinedly been repulsed. The official press release did not mention that four US ships had been sunk and the US aircraft carrier been put out of action. – The attack on the Zeppelin Auguste Viktoria had already become known by a DELAG press statement and equally did find a broad echo in the papers.
The noon time editions of Middle African newspapers, however, featured reports about the brave conduct of the Middle African military: The splendid fight of SMS Mbandaka, the successful sorties of fighters and torpedo bombers, and the quick help provided to civilian victims of US aggression.
Only MAU 37’s attack on USS Gnat was not in the headlines, because news about it hadn’t been released to the media.

In the US morning papers the massacred and mutilated Marines were the top theme. Germany was accused of barbarity and brutality. For good reasons, details about Task Force Charlie had not been mentioned in the official releases to the press. The seizure of German vessels was explained as a reaction to German bestiality in Liberia. – That the perpetrators of the massacre of Baker Company had been German trained Negroes played a prominent role in most papers. The fact that said German trained Negroes had just sunk four US ships and crippled another two remained in obscurity, but their alleged role as merciless killers and brutish torturers was highlighted.

Thus, people who had access to all three sources of public information could arrive at a quite comprehensive picture of what really had occurred. If the US were correct about what had happened to their Marines, their reaction became understandable. Yet, only the German government and its military were certain that Middle African forces had not been involved in Liberia.
Even inside Germany, a lot of people felt slight doubts. The professional aggressiveness of General von Bauer and of the black soldiers in general was well known. However, torture and mutilation were not part of the German military tool kit; and the iron discipline of the Middle African Army was known as well as their military prowess. Therefore, only very few people tended to believe what the US media suggested.

In France and Britain, this was quite different. The old clichés from the Great War easily leapt back into the minds: Brutish, ape like creatures wearing Pickelhauben raping Belgian women, chopping off children’s hands and bayoneting babies.

While public opinion was forming on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, the Middle African Navy was already entering their new area of operations.
MAU 12 (Kapitänleutnant Heinz Wahaleke) was shadowing USS Concord and her three destroyers. MAU 17 (Kapitänleutnant Georg Notsé), MAU 22 (Kapitänleutnant Hubert Ezime), MAU 26 (Kapitänleutnant Omar Younabé) and MAU 37 (Kapitänleutnant David Kalumbe) were nosing northwards along the littoral, looking for the US task force.

In North Carolina, in the New River Marine Barracks, the 2nd Marine Division, and at Tierra Blanca Marine Camp near New Orleans, the 4th Marine Division had just received orders to prepare for embarkation for transport to Liberia. Both divisions were not at full strength, each had one regiment serving in Central America, but the remaining Marine Divisions were completely absorbed by security tasks in Mexico, the Caribbean and the Philippines.

[Monty Burns]

So the Mittelafrikans will soon have 2 Marine divisions to take out, plus additional US ships. I wonder how many losses the US can take in Africa before it gets into the general public what happened and who was responsible for this.

I don't really understand though why the military successes of the Mittelafrikans are not highlighted in German press. This is evidence that the German investments in the region are extremely successful.

Public opinion in Europe will be essential by now. Germany has to prevent any European nation to ally with the US. I'd recommend an international team of inspectors, best to choose some Belgian and British, to be sent to Mittelafrika for investigation of Mittelafrikan involvement in Liberia.

[rast]

Originally Posted by Monty Burns

I don't really understand though why the military successes of the Mittelafrikans are not highlighted in German press. This is evidence that the German investments in the region are extremely successful.

The government tries to play it low - so to give diplomacy a chance.

[abc123]

Originally Posted by rast

Cables are also called the 'Internet' of the Victorian era.

Von Bauer is in Groß Togoland, where he can rely on the largest wireless station in Africa. He has direct radio contact with his subordinate commanders and cable contact with Daressalam and Wünsdorf.

In quite the same way, Admiral Brumby has radio contact with the Atlantic Fleet HQ in the US.

News travel fast; transmitting pictures is still a problem, but the word wanders quickly.

Look, just see how much time it take in Pearl Harbour situation to transmit mesages from Tokyo to Washington or from Washington to Pearl Harbour.
And in 1960. during Cuban missile crisis sometimes it took more than 24 h to deliver diplomatic message from Washington to Moscow and vice versa.

[Monty Burns]

Originally Posted by abc123

Look, just see how much time it take in Pearl Harbour situation to transmit mesages from Tokyo to Washington or from Washington to Pearl Harbour.
And in 1960. during Cuban missile crisis sometimes it took more than 24 h to deliver diplomatic message from Washington to Moscow and vice versa.

But at least two of your counterexamples consider messages between different countries. During the Cuban crisis, the problem was that modern telecommunication networks weren't sufficiently interlinked. That's why the red phones were installed. ITTL, communication between military missions or the colonies and the motherland will be based on the best equipment available, that is radio and cable.

It's fast communication between Germany and the US which might be a problem.

[sloreck]

Well, the Germans need to produce, first in MittelAfrfika and soon in Europe the soldiers whose IDs were used in the raid, along with some explanation of the force dispsitions. Maybe even have them interrogated by neutral diplomats (UK, France, maybe Spain, Sweden). The question is not only how far does this spin out of control between the US & Germany, but who else might get dragged in to it. While China would probably be pro-US & the Ottomans are aligned with Germany, they are so busy with each other that its unlikely they will get involved officially - although if it escalates between the US & Germany it will affect their war in reduced numbers of advisors/troops and outside military supplies.

As much as France wants revanche, I can't see them actually joining the US & allowing them to use France as a staging area. They know they will be stomped flat in a heartbeat.

While Russia may want to take advantage of the situation, its unlikely they will try yet - just not strong enough. If the Heymshtot becomes a formal ally in the conflict (if it occurs as a war) with Germany this could have serious effects for the remaining Jews in the USA (Questions for Rast: What %/#s of the pre-WWI Jewish population of the USA is still there, not having left for someplace better, and at this point in time what is the state of the Heymshtot military (competence, armaments etc)). Both negroes and Jews may see internment camps like the Nisei were herded in to in OTL WW2 in their future - and the fact that at least some Jews may still have significant assets that might be subject to confiscation will also be a "plus" for the Americans. The blacks might even, after being concentrated, be sent out as forced laborers to "pay" for their treason to sectors of the economy hit by a labor shortage if there is big time mobilization.

WRT to Marines, at this point in time OTL the doctrines and equipment for amphibious landings/assaults had not been developed, so their ability to land on an enemy held/defended beach is very limited they can only conducted unresisted landings or come ashore at ports. To change this requires this TL to have moved up these developments ~10 years (doctrine & equipment).

[abc123]

Originally Posted by Monty Burns

But at least two of your counterexamples consider messages between different countries. During the Cuban crisis, the problem was that modern telecommunication networks weren't sufficiently interlinked. That's why the red phones were installed. ITTL, communication between military missions or the colonies and the motherland will be based on the best equipment available, that is radio and cable.

It's fast communication between Germany and the US which might be a problem.

Agreed.
But, you dont send something by radio if you can send it by wire. Because of enemy's ELINT. Radio comunication is wide open for wiretapping, cable and telephone isn't.
And telephone in that time is much slower and unreliable than today.
So we are at cable- comunication.

As far as I know, Hawaiii and Washington are in the same country.

And indeed, US- Germany comunication will be a problem. That's why I said that will be nescessary several days.

[rast]

Originally Posted by sloreck

(Questions for Rast: What %/#s of the pre-WWI Jewish population of the USA is still there, not having left for someplace better, and at this point in time what is the state of the Heymshtot military (competence, armaments etc)).

The 2.2 million Ashkenazi Jews are almost completely gone (gone to the Heymshtot by 90%), there remain about 400,000 Jews of German origin in the US, whose ancestors immigrated before 1880 (and who consider themselves to be true Americans).

[Parma]

I do not understand what the British intelligence is doing. Setting up a scheme like this, even if it is done by a few people must get the attention of the intelligence service at some point. Certainly by persons who are ridiculous against the government at present.
And at the end the service report to the government.
Or is the the British intelligence service as bad as the German?

[Amit]

Perhaps the British Intelligence Service has sympathizers Parma...maybe they've been infiltrated by Churchill loyalists. It's happened many other times in history where the intelligence agencies have an agenda outside of the official politics of the day.

[Kelenas]

That's the impression I had gotten; that the guy who set the events in motion was someone high up in the British Intelligence service.

- Kelenas

[rast]

A Conversation in the Club

After the butler had served the drinks and left, the two men turned their conversation from the horrible London weather to recent international events.
Winston Spencer Churchill, who already had had several brandies with the dinner, was in splendid mood and quite pleased with the outcome of the ‘little venture’ in Liberia.
Robert Gilbert Vansittart, who had staged the ‘little venture’, was far less amused. He did not yet see how this was going to weaken German dominance in Europe. So far, it had only served to strengthen German dominance in Africa. And the result of the first clash between the German Middle African military and the US Navy did not indicate that the Germans had any intention of going slowly and cautiously.
His contacts in the Secret Intelligence Service told him that General von Bauer had received endorsement from the cabinet in Berlin for the occupation of Liberia.

But Churchill didn’t share Vansittart’s incertitude.
“Yes, Bob, the Boches will take Liberia – and the Americans will be pissed. The Americans have confiscated Fritz’ merchant vessels – and the Boches are pissed. That’s exactly what we want: A long lasting confrontation between the US and the Huns. – And we will be on the side of the Americans, and receive their support for overthrowing the bloody socialists!”
“But if someone discovers the ‘little venture’? – Then the Americans surely will not support us.”
“Now, come on, Bob. – How many people know about it?”
“You, me, Harold Nicolson, the Irish whore and Colonel McKinley.”
“Exactly. – Harold is absolutely trustworthy. The Irish lady doesn’t know what has been discussed between Harold and McKinley, she only initiated contact. And McKinley can have absolutely no interest in letting anybody know what he did. After all, he’s a millionaire right now – and if he behaves reasonably he can live a life of luxury in Monaco or some other fancy place.”
“And what about McKinley’s goons, the brutes he hired for killing the Americans? Not all of them were killed. When the Huns occupy Liberia, they may stumble over them.”
Churchill made a dismissive gesture.
“They’re scum, murderers and psychos. They’ll remain in the rat holes into which they’ve crept after McKinley has given them their money. – And even if the Boches accidentally arrest one of them, so what? Criminals do not brag with their crimes opposite the police.”
“Well, let’s hope things are like you say.”
“Sure. – The only person to worry about is McKinley. Tell the SIS folks to have an eye on him. If he decides to stay in Liberia, he must be eliminated. If he moves to Monaco or Rio, all is well.”
“But the Huns are about to invade Liberia. What if McKinley doesn’t get away fast enough?”
“In that case, have him killed. McKinley in Fritz’ hands would indeed be fatal.”

The conversation now turned to the subject of how to ascertain US support for the conservatives.
“Henry Wickham Steed will travel to New York and Washington the next week.” Churchill said. “He knows the persons to talk to.”
“I guess, his mission will be to brief the Americans that we would provide a staging area for the US – once we’re back in power.”
“Exactly. – They must understand that their only friends in Europe are we. And once we’ve gotten their support, we can start breaking German hegemony. The Americans are strong enough to neutralise Fritz; that is our chance to change things.”
“Will this mean war?”
Churchill made a vague gesture.
“Frankly, I hope so, it would shorten affairs considerably – but I’m not sure how crazy the Americans will go over Fritz’ provocations. If we’re unlucky, it will be a kind of protracted kind of phoney war.”

[abc123]

Originally Posted by rast

A Conversation in the Club

After the butler had served the drinks and left, the two men turned their conversation from the horrible London weather to recent international events.
Winston Spencer Churchill, who already had had several brandies with the dinner, was in splendid mood and quite pleased with the outcome of the ‘little venture’ in Liberia.
Robert Gilbert Vansittart, who had staged the ‘little venture’, was far less amused. He did not yet see how this was going to weaken German dominance in Europe. So far, it had only served to strengthen German dominance in Africa. And the result of the first clash between the German Middle African military and the US Navy did not indicate that the Germans had any intention of going slow and cautiously.
His contacts in the Secret Intelligence Service told him that General von Bauer had received endorsement from the cabinet in Berlin for the occupation of Liberia.

But Churchill didn’t share Vansittart’s incertitude.
“Yes, Bob, the Boches will take Liberia – and the Americans will be pissed. The Americans have confiscated Fritz’ merchant vessels – and the Boches are pissed. That’s exactly what we want: A long lasting confrontation between the US and the Huns. – And we will be on the side of the Americans, and receive their support for overthrowing the bloody socialists!”
“But if someone discovers the ‘little venture’? – Then the Americans surely will not support us.”
“Now, come on, Bob. – How many people know about it?”
“You, me, Harold Nicolson, the Irish whore and Colonel McKinley.”
“Exactly. – Harold is absolutely trustworthy. The Irish lady doesn’t know what has been discussed between Harold and McKinley, she only initiated contact. And McKinley can have absolutely no interest in letting anybody know what he did. After all, he’s a millionaire right now – and if he behaves reasonably he can live a life of luxury in Monaco or some other fancy place.”
“And what about McKinley’s goons, the brutes he hired for killing the Americans? Not all of them were killed. When the Huns occupy Liberia, they may stumble over them.”
Churchill made a dismissive gesture.
“They’re scum, murderers and psychos. They’ll remain in the rat holes into which they’ve crept after McKinley has given them their money. – And even if the Boches accidentally arrest one of them, so what? Criminals do not brag with their crimes opposite the police.”
“Well, let’s hope things are like you say.”
“Sure. – The only person to worry about is McKinley. Tell the SIS folks to have an eye on him. If he decides to stay in Liberia, he must be eliminated. If he moves to Monaco or Rio, all is well.”
“But the Huns are about to invade Liberia. What if McKinley doesn’t get away fast enough?”
“In that case, have him killed. McKinley in Fritz’ hands would indeed be fatal.”

The conversation now turned to the subject of how to ascertain US support for the conservatives.
“Henry Wickham Steed will travel to New York and Washington the next week.” Churchill said. “He knows the persons to talk to.”
“I guess, his mission will be to brief the Americans that we would provide a staging area for the US – once we’re back in power.”
“Exactly. – They must understand that their only friends in Europe are we. And once we’ve gotten their support, we can start breaking German hegemony. The Americans are strong enough to neutralise Fritz; that is our chance to change things.”
“Will this mean war?”
Churchill made a vague gesture.
“Frankly, I hope so, it would shorten affairs considerably – but I’m not sure how crazy the Americans will go over Fritz’ provocations. If we’re unlucky, it will be a kind of protracted kind of phoney war.”

I'm surprised that Colonel McKinley does not allready swimms with the fishes.