US Invades Russia

[godsown1991]

This bit was inspired by a dinner conversation with my mother's boyfriend. An ardent American, when we got into a discussion about this, we couldn't find a way to agree.

I brought up the idea of the US sending the army into Russia to fight against the revolutionaries that turned Russia into the USSR. We couldn't agree, so I figured I'd ask on site.

For some reason, the US sides with the Czar in the conflict. The army is sent in, the Communists revolution is destroyed, though the royal family is still destroyed.

Yes, I know that this is vague and unlikely, but I promised I'd put it up.

Anyway, is there a chance that Russia will transform into, perhaps, a capitalist state? What effect would this have on the notoriously shoddy Russian army of the time? How would it affect WWII?




Happy now, Tom?

[SRT]

The US did send soldiers into Russia during the Civil War. Not a lot, but still. I think it'd be hard to get public opinion to be okay with sending more so soon after WWI. Not to mention that the war did start during WWI, so lots of US troops are already tied down in other occupations.

Also, the Tsar didn't really take a side in the conflict -- he just abdicated. Most of the Russians resisting the Soviets were in favor of a Constitutional Monarchy or a straight democracy, with no tsar.

I think if the Soviet Union hadn't won out, Russia would have still lost a lot of territory -- perhaps even Ukraine in addition to what they lost OTL. I imagine some kind of alliance of White Russians with Ukrainian Nationalists to beat the Reds.

Russia certainly wouldn't have industrialized as fast as OTL if it was a capitalist country, so that's something to take into account if WWII comes around as normal.

[Saladan]

Actually the US did send troops into Russia to help put down the red army but so did the British and French if I remember. Chances are they would alloy the next person in line for the throne to become the next Tsar, but I would expect they would be a constitutional monarch.

[yourworstnightmare]

Originally Posted by Saladan

Actually the US did send troops into Russia to help put down the red army but so did the British and French if I remember. Chances are they would alloy the next person in line for the throne to become the next Tsar, but I would expect they would be a constitutional monarch.

And actually so did the Japanese, and there was danger of clashes between US and Japanese soldiers in Siberia. One reason the US decided to get out quickly was because they did not trust the Japanese. but the fact is that the French, British, US and Japanese interventions were half hearted, and only made many Russians more sure that the Whites were the bad ones since they had foreign support.

[Admiral Canaris]

Originally Posted by SRT

Also, the Tsar didn't really take a side in the conflict -- he just abdicated. Most of the Russians resisting the Soviets were in favor of a Constitutional Monarchy or a straight democracy, with no tsar.

I think the Tsar would have at least made good propaganda against the Bolsheviks - he was Russia's legitimate ruler, and whatever is said, he did have the peasantry's support, though his policies often did not. Him speaking against them outright would be significant, though it might not change things much militarily.

I think if the Soviet Union hadn't won out, Russia would have still lost a lot of territory -- perhaps even Ukraine in addition to what they lost OTL. I imagine some kind of alliance of White Russians with Ukrainian Nationalists to beat the Reds.

Big problems there; the White Russians were very much in favour of keeping the Empire united; for example, Kolchak's government antagonised Finns and poles alike by demanding that they rejoin/grant massive concessions. This at stages in the Civil War when their aid could have been crucial. I'm not sure you can get another reaction from their camp; perhaps if you have someone like Wrangel lead them, but it's still very difficult.

A massive American intervention might of course force through other policies, but it's a matter of how relatively strong the Whites are. IOTL, they weren't much for compromise.

Russia certainly wouldn't have industrialized as fast as OTL if it was a capitalist country, so that's something to take into account if WWII comes around as normal.

First, it won't, that's ASB with these premises. You MIGHT get something roughly analogous, but even that is uncertain.

Second, take a look at the growth figures for the late Tsarist era. They're rather impressive.

[Admiral Canaris]

Originally Posted by Saladan

Actually the US did send troops into Russia to help put down the red army but so did the British and French if I remember. Chances are they would alloy the next person in line for the throne to become the next Tsar, but I would expect they would be a constitutional monarch.

No, they sent troops to keep Russia in the war and guard vital supply stocks. That's a big difference. After the war ended, most foreign intervention quickly vapourised; the only ones to send any major support were the British, and even they did it very half-heartedly. The Japanese had designs on Siberia, of course, but never executed them.

[Tuhachevskey]

USA couldnt send a lot of troops to russia. Only Far East9with Japan) and European North(Arkhangelsk, Murmansk), but then they would be dislodged. There was Far-East Republic, made by lenin(Soviet Russsia couldnt deal, so FER did it/ And its troops and guerillas have sended a lot of japanese soldiers to their paradise

[Grimm Reaper]

How about if the US doesn't send the limited contingent to evacuate the Czech Legion and give a warning to Japan? With the Czech Legion forced to remain with the Whites for their own journey plus Japan slicing off the Pacific territories...

[Tuhachevskey]

Originally Posted by Grimm Reaper

How about if the US doesn't send the limited contingent to evacuate the Czech Legion and give a warning to Japan? With the Czech Legion forced to remain with the Whites for their own journey plus Japan slicing off the Pacific territories...

Сzech legion would be demoralised soon. In RH a lot of Czechs came over to red's side because of it.

[Grimm Reaper]

Unlikely given the Legion's actual performence historically.

Meanwhile Japan just acquired the northern half of Sakhalin, the Kamchatka Penninsula and who knows what else?

Actually I don't like that possibility, so let's pretend I said nothing.