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Old October 6th, 2008, 08:32 PM
CaptainAmerica CaptainAmerica is offline
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Ivan the Terrible

What would have happened if Ivan the terrible had married Elizabeth would their son if they had one unite the two kingdoms and create a juggernaut or would the kingdoms remain sepreate similar to when the Hanavor family ruled England
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Old October 6th, 2008, 08:44 PM
Philip Philip is offline
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You need to explain the details of the marriage. For example, does Elizabeth convert to Orthodoxy? If not, I don't see the marriage being accepted in Russia. If she does, is she still eligible to be Defender of the Faith?
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Old October 6th, 2008, 09:04 PM
CaptainAmerica CaptainAmerica is offline
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okay i doubt that she would convert and Ivan was a powerful ruler that i think he could convince the bowyers that the alliance of the orthadox religion and the protestant cause would help strengthen Russia
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Old October 6th, 2008, 09:26 PM
Philip Philip is offline
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I strongly disagree. Such a marriage would have to take place after Elizabeth's corination to make any sense. That places it in 1569 at the earliest (the death of Maria Temrjukovna).

The boyars greatly resented Ivan's rule, especially after the creation of the Oprichnina. By the late '70s, Ivan's war with Poland-Lithuania was going horribly and the Crimea Tatars/Ottoman Empire were pressing from the south.. A marriage to Elizabeth would probably result in the excommunication of Ivan. I see the Church and the boyars working together to replace Ivan, although I need to check to see who was the Patriarch of Moscow at the time.
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Old October 6th, 2008, 09:44 PM
CaptainAmerica CaptainAmerica is offline
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i see .. i shall get to work and do much more research on this
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Old October 6th, 2008, 11:02 PM
CaptainAmerica CaptainAmerica is offline
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So Ivan was on good terms with the bowyers until 1560 when the the relationship began to sour he accused them of killing his first wife then in 1565 he created the Oprichnina which was the final straw for the bowyers
Elizabeth became queen in 1558 so she would have been ruling for 2 years when Ivan needed a new wife
Also the patriarch of moscow at this time was Macarius a close advisor of Ivan's who was responible for the coronation of Ivan and was made temporary head of state when Ivan attacked the Kazan
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Old October 6th, 2008, 11:27 PM
Munesli Munesli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
So Ivan was on good terms with the bowyers until 1560 when the the relationship began to sour he accused them of killing his first wife then in 1565 he created the Oprichnina which was the final straw for the bowyers
Elizabeth became queen in 1558 so she would have been ruling for 2 years when Ivan needed a new wife
Also the patriarch of moscow at this time was Macarius a close advisor of Ivan's who was responible for the coronation of Ivan and was made temporary head of state when Ivan attacked the Kazan

Boyar ≠ Bowyer.

Major difference, but yes.

One thing I'd find interesting if Ivan's love did not die (forgot her name). Before her death Ivan was acctually a pretty cool dude, but after it he sort of utterly went bat shit insane. If she did not die - he might have not gone insane. I'd be a interesting turnout.
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