SM Sterling - opinions

[zoomar]

This may be odd for a longtime AH fan, but I only just started reading SM Sterling's Islands on the Sea of Time series. I know it's not true AH, but I'd be interested in knowing what other people think of Sterling as a writer/researcher, as this is my first exposure to him. My initial impression is that he's a much more polished writer than Turtledone and at least as good a historical researcher. Also, I've made it through the first two books of the trilogy and found the narrative quite strong, inspite of the multiple POV characters and scenery switches.

[Norman]

I read the series too, and liked it with some exceptions.

He did great research into the whole proto-indo-european [PIE] language issues, and thought it was fairly accurate. So on the research side he was good. I thought the general story line was good, and unlike a lot of other stories, actually got better.

I disliked many of his characters. For example, what is the chance the commander of the Coast Guard training vessle would be a black Gulah lesbian? You want to start calculating probability on that one?

I did not like how the PIE speakers were basically a bunch of "Hell's Angels in Chariots", while the natives of England were a bunch of new age astronomers. Again, it just was too '21st century'.

Finally, we have the new age indians. He starts out fairly believeable, then he gets out west and we find proto new age indians.

Other wise I thought the books were fun.

[Faeelin]

Too cartoony.

[zoomar]

Originally Posted by Norman

I read the series too, and liked it with some exceptions.

He did great research into the whole proto-indo-european [PIE] language issues, and thought it was fairly accurate. So on the research side he was good. I thought the general story line was good, and unlike a lot of other stories, actually got better.

I disliked many of his characters. For example, what is the chance the commander of the Coast Guard training vessle would be a black Gulah lesbian? You want to start calculating probability on that one?

I did not like how the PIE speakers were basically a bunch of "Hell's Angels in Chariots", while the natives of England were a bunch of new age astronomers. Again, it just was too '21st century'.

Finally, we have the new age indians. He starts out fairly believeable, then he gets out west and we find proto new age indians.

Otherwise I thought the books were fun.

My impressions have been similar - I haven't gotten seriously to the "new age Indians" yet. I've generally liked the treatment of historical bronze age states and personalities in the Aegean and Tigris/Euphates valleys and how they reacted to their collision with the late 20th century. I too thought the matriarchical mystical "Moon Woman" stuff of the indigenous Albans was a little silly, but had less trouble with the PIE barbarian macho stuff. I also like the notion that Olmecs were (and by extension the later Mesoamerican civilizations would have been) bizarrely "evil" alien cultures by modern standards. I'm not so bothered by the black lesbian Coast Guard training ship captain, because it is made very clear she would have stayed essentially a celibate "in the closet" by the books type in the 20th century. The rapidity with which her liason with Swindapa develops seems both very unrealistic and little preachy to me, however, as does the fact that women in general seem to figure far too prominantly in leadership positions in the Nantucket military than would be realistic. I think some of the best stuff is along the edges: the increasing use of "what would have become" tenses when people discuss the history they come from from, the effect on religion, and the self-conscious way the Nantuckers realize they are messing things up when they contact other bronze age states and peoples - but yet do it anyway. One can speculate what the long term effect of the event might have on the structure of English and views of history and reality. I could easily see future generations of Nantucketers coming to question the actual reality of their own history as a creation myth. Also, Walker and Hong make very delicious bad guys. Walker's shift from eager Coast Guard officer to rebel is very well done but Hong in particular is an interesting speculation on what a warped personality might do in a world where all previous cultural constraints no longer existed.

[Diamond]

Originally Posted by zoomar

Also, Walker and Hong make very delicious bad guys. Walker's shift from eager Coast Guard officer to rebel is very well done but Hong in particular is an interesting speculation on what a warped personality might do in a world where all previous cultural constraints no longer existed.

Those two were my favorite characters in the whole trilogy. Its so much more fun to root for the bad guy...

I always picture James Spader and Lucy Liu playing them if they did a movie.

[David Howery]

I liked Walker's character... but dang, couldn't he have picked a better name? Anyone with a casual knowledge of history knows where it came from... the minute I saw it, I knew just what his role in the book was going to be....

[Scott Rosenthal]

Diamond: PERFECT casting for Walker and Hong! Spader is a bit less athletic than I would have thought necessary for the part, but he is so deliciously slimy that I believe he would be ideal... As for Liu, absolutely spot on!

[Prunesquallor]

The series is enjoyable but I got the impression it was being turned out, as it were, to order. Even the little bit at the end which gives room for a sequel if it looks profitable.
Grouses- how likely is it that this one little coastguard vessel contains two military geniuses and a Stasi agent? Little bits of knowingness- the character of Hook, for instance. Far fetched plotting- the Nantucket agent in Walker's territory. As I've pointed out before, the inability of writers of Stirling's type to find any basis for a belief which they oppose other than rank stupidity. Look at the ludicrous stereotype of Pamela Lisketter.

[zoomar]

Originally Posted by Scott Rosenthal

Diamond: PERFECT casting for Walker and Hong! Spader is a bit less athletic than I would have thought necessary for the part, but he is so deliciously slimy that I believe he would be ideal... As for Liu, absolutely spot on!

I agree. I sort of had the visual image of Kurt Russell for Walker, though. Liu, though, is great. I can't wait for the movie

[zoomar]

As I've pointed out before, the inability of writers of Stirling's type to find any basis for a belief which they oppose other than rank stupidity. Look at the ludicrous stereotype of Pamela Lisketter.

I don't know..anthropology departments are full of people who think just like Lisketter. I've know plenty.

[David Howery]

Not to give anything away, but I was rather disappointed in the 3rd book... too many things going on at once, and the finale was rather disappointing, regarding Walker anyway. Stirling left himself a hook to continue the series... is he going to?

[Diamond]

Originally Posted by David Howery

Not to give anything away, but I was rather disappointed in the 3rd book... too many things going on at once, and the finale was rather disappointing, regarding Walker anyway. Stirling left himself a hook to continue the series... is he going to?

On the old board somebody, Scott Blair maybe?, posted a link to a site where there is a preview of what looks like a sequel of sorts, but taking place in OTL 20th c. dealing with the results of Nantucket disappearing. Didn't look very intriguing.

And as for casting, what about Angela Bassett as M. Alston? We've already seen that she has good on-screen antagonistic chemistry with Spader ('Supernova').

[MerryPrankster]

"taking place in OTL 20th c. dealing with the results of Nantucket disappearing. Didn't look very intriguing"

It's called Dies the Fire and apparently the Nantucket Event causes all internal-combustion engines and electricity to cease functioning and guns to "fizzle" when they fire (means that the bullet doesn't get far). If all pre-Event tech shuts down but new stuff can be made, that disruption won't last long; however, if the Event causes permanent changes to the laws of physics, we're screwed.

Personally, I didn't think too highly of it either, but that's based on an excerpt that was posted. I rather wish Stirling would come up with more "Draka" stories or perhaps write a sequel to "Peshawar Lancers" (besides the little story in the anthology, which I thought was darn good).

[Norman]

Originally Posted by Matt Quinn

"taking place in OTL 20th c. dealing with the results of Nantucket disappearing. Didn't look very intriguing"

It's called Dies the Fire and apparently the Nantucket Event causes all internal-combustion engines and electricity to cease functioning and guns to "fizzle" when they fire (means that the bullet doesn't get far). If all pre-Event tech shuts down but new stuff can be made, that disruption won't last long; however, if the Event causes permanent changes to the laws of physics, we're screwed.

Isn't even original, there was a short story written about 25 years ago (maybe more) in which ASB's use a damper to suppress all the things you mention, causing great death and destruction as humans attept to compensate. They do it because humans are advancing to quickly and threaten the peaceful existence of the ASBs

It ends by having humans secretly build ships (25 years later or so) and take over the alien spacecraft and its damper.

[zoomar]

"It's called Dies the Fire and apparently the Nantucket Event causes all internal-combustion engines and electricity to cease functioning and guns to "fizzle" when they fire (means that the bullet doesn't get far). If all pre-Event tech shuts down but new stuff can be made, that disruption won't last long; however, if the Event causes permanent changes to the laws of physics, we're screwed"


This sounds weird. Is the Event just a by productof the dampening? Is the dampening a deliberate act by ASB's? It does appear he lays some vague groundwork for this in present trilogy by having his characters speculate that the event seems somehow a deliberate act.

[Scott Rosenthal]

Originally Posted by zoomar

I agree. I sort of had the visual image of Kurt Russell for Walker, though. Liu, though, is great. I can't wait for the movie

Yes, Russell was my image of Walker too, but he is a bit old for the role now, and a bit too 'blue collar', as I always thought of Walker as more slick than anything else...

[Admiral Matt]

The Nantucketers fight the Brits in a few big battles, and they adopt all the cute little blonde orphans and keep adopting those few available later.

The Nantucketers shatter Mexican society with plague and send in regular punitive expeditions, and . . . nothing. Too bad the kids're brown, eh?

[wkwillis]

Originally Posted by zoomar

This may be odd for a longtime AH fan, but I only just started reading SM Sterling's Islands on the Sea of Time series. I know it's not true AH, but I'd be interested in knowing what other people think of Sterling as a writer/researcher, as this is my first exposure to him. My initial impression is that he's a much more polished writer than Turtledone and at least as good a historical researcher. Also, I've made it through the first two books of the trilogy and found the narrative quite strong, inspite of the multiple POV characters and scenery switches.

I've read most of what he's written and met him once or twice. He's strange, but not stranger than most science fiction and fantasy writers. I'm an inventor and we are the only people to outscore SFWA on stubborness, so it's not like I'm throwing stones.

[Diamond]

What about Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson? Neither one can act their way out of a paper bag, but that's probably just the touch needed for the role...

[Grimm Reaper]

Personally I really can't stand the progressives who wish to remake everyone in their own image throughout history, except for certain favored groups who are to be forgiven their sins. I was once in a college class and discussing the rise of the Zulus, based on the 'Washing of the Spears' arguably the finest book on it. I received several shrieks as to how 'savage' the Zulu lifestyle was portrayed as. My puzzled response was to note that the Zulus went from less than 400 men to battling the British Empire in less than a century. They must have been doing something right! Then I offered a few choice examples of European custom in the 19th century.

Yes, I am cruel.

Norman, I mention yet another story in this venue: It was called 'Pax Galactica' by Ralph Williams, about 27 pages long. I found it in volume one of Imperial Stars: The Stars at War, created by Jerry Pournelle. The book was in 1986, the story first appeared in Astounding Science Fiction, November 1952 issue.

The aliens determine to stop not only atomic energy/weapons but seed the atmosphere with an 'inhibitor' to prevent combustion engines, gunpowder, aircraft, etc. in the hope of creating a more peaceful and civilized society on earth.

Well, I'm sure they thought it was a good idea...