Two Questions Regarding India and Japan

[DAv]

I know this probably contains spoilers for my upcoming TL, but here it goes:

1: How many states can India be sensibly split along ethnic/Religous lines? I know that there could be Bengal, a North-West state for Muslims and maybe two central and Southern states for Hindus? Am I right in thinking this?

2: There any major geographical point in Honshu, Japan which could be used as a split between a Northern and Southern state like a mountain range or river? One which would leave the majority of territory in the Northern state?

Thanks if you answer and sorry for the spoilers.

[Grey Wolf]

Hyderabad sitting in the middle of the South is a very viable Muslim state, albeit surrounded by others' land. The Nizam had a vast fortune, and if he can sort out his security could well afford to modernise his country and run an efficient government

You can also have a Sikh state in the North

Best Regards

[Aozhouhuaren]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

You can also have a Sikh state in the North

Best Regards

I thought that was only possible after independence when the Punjab was split in half and the Muslims moved to Pakistan and the Hindus to other surrounding provinces like Haryana. Before 1947, was there a viable Sikh majority in the Punjab to exert enough political force for an independent state?

Or are you talking about a much earlier POD where you might be able to have a stronger Sikh Empire with some alternate circumstances.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by Aozhouhuaren

I thought that was only possible after independence when the Punjab was split in half and the Muslims moved to Pakistan and the Hindus to other surrounding provinces like Haryana. Before 1947, was there a viable Sikh majority in the Punjab to exert enough political force for an independent state?

Or are you talking about a much earlier POD where you might be able to have a stronger Sikh Empire with some alternate circumstances.

I was talking earlier, sorry (for the Sikhs)

I didn't see a POD date, and my mind just ran away with itself

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Aozhouhuaren]

It's an interesting idea for a divided subcontinent, though I wonder about the forces behind it, one would think that either foreign powers were never interested in India (very unlikely) and the Mughals simply disintegrated. Or the foreign powers never got a strong foothold and simply ever only build a trading post here and there.

Perhaps I'm ignorant on Indian history, but to some degree, didn't the British Raj help somewhat in creating a solidified "Indian/Hindustani" identity? Without British rule, perhaps you have more division.

As for Japanese division, perhaps the Kanto (containing Tokyo and Yokohama) region would secede with much economic power and a large proportion of the Japanese population if the other Honshu prefectures were too pushy, though I'm not sure about any major political forces of secession, this is something for Sargon and other Japanophiles to answer.

[DAv]

Perhaps I'm ignorant on Indian history, but to some degree, didn't the British Raj help somewhat in creating a solidified "Indian/Hindustani" identity? Without British rule, perhaps you have more division.

Well this is for my British Imperialism TL which does have the British controlling India but with approaching Federalism within the Empire, India gets more empowered and I thought that India in several states would be more realistic than one huge monolithic Indian state.

As for Japan, the division happens in the mid nineteenth century following a Civil War with Russia influence in the north and British influence in the south.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by DAv

Well this is for my British Imperialism TL which does have the British controlling India but with approaching Federalism within the Empire, India gets more empowered and I thought that India in several states would be more realistic than one huge monolithic Indian state.

As for Japan, the division happens in the mid nineteenth century following a Civil War with Russia influence in the north and British influence in the south.

The British envisioned a federal dominion of India in which each state would be autonomous, to I think varying degrees. Thus the princely states keep their hereditary rulers in this scenario

That was the 1930s plan as it evolved

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Max Sinister]

And there were quite many princely states. I don't know how much their borders had to do with actual ethnic / religious differences, though.

[Analytical Engine]

Originally Posted by Max Sinister

And there were quite many princely states. I don't know how much their borders had to do with actual ethnic / religious differences, though.

Quite a bit... but don't let the large number of princely states fool you...

Consider the States Agencies instead in the case of the tiny ones...

[johnm]

Just some details for your tinkering pleasure:

If I recall my Indian history course correctly, the only major voice within India for an independent state other than all of British India was among the Muslims - this created East and West Pakistan (now Pakistan and Bangladesh)- and this emerged as calls for independence among educated Indians grew. Calls for independence among other groups emerged later, after Indian independence. And yes, the princely states remained technically independent after the British left. There were quite a few, big and small, and most joined India or Pakistan almost immediately, but you could bring their accession into question if you wanted to make it more interesting. Hyderabad and Kashmir were some of the biggest, and the last to remain independent. Also, as far as potential independent ethnic groups go, other than the groups already mentioned in this thread there are also various tribes in the far north of India who resent encroachment by the government and loggers and such, and there's always the Indo-Portuguese and -French in places like Pondicherry and Goa. Within Pakistan, the only dissent was from West Pakistan, which became independent OTL anyways.

Hope this is some use,

-John

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by johnm

Within Pakistan, the only dissent was from West Pakistan, which became independent OTL anyways.

Hope this is some use,

-John

Was there not some problem with the Khan of Kalat ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf