Corned Beef Renegade
Banned
What if Clinton had suffered a fatal heart attack or perhaps died as a result of complications from his September, 2004 heart surgery?
WI: Bill Clinton dies in 2004
- Thread starter Corned Beef Renegade
- Start date
jahenders
Banned
Other than numerous interns breathing a sigh of relief?? 
He wouldn't have been available to offer support to various Democrat Congressional candidates in 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, or 2014. That lack, and the associated fund-raising losses, might have tipped a couple of races.
Hillary would have been less of a factor in 2008 and thereafter. Though still significant, she'd withdraw earlier against Obama. Given her lower performance (and without the Bill factor), it's less certain she'd be tapped for Sec State, though she'd be offered some role.
With all this (and far less cash from the Clinton fund), she'd be a far less certain candidate for 2016 and might just choose to go the grandma route.
He wouldn't have been available to offer support to various Democrat Congressional candidates in 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, or 2014. That lack, and the associated fund-raising losses, might have tipped a couple of races.
Hillary would have been less of a factor in 2008 and thereafter. Though still significant, she'd withdraw earlier against Obama. Given her lower performance (and without the Bill factor), it's less certain she'd be tapped for Sec State, though she'd be offered some role.
With all this (and far less cash from the Clinton fund), she'd be a far less certain candidate for 2016 and might just choose to go the grandma route.
Peter Parker
Banned
Nah, she did as well as she did with Bill campaigning for her. She would get symphony vote, but by 2008 it's faded away.
It makes 2012 harder for Obama, since Bill speaking at the DNC helped a lot.
Just think if all the conventions Bill Clinton spoke at
-1992
-1996
-2000
-2004
-2008
-2012
I dive think anyone important has broken this record. And I'm pretty sure he will be speaking at 2016 if he is still alive
Bill was not much of an asset in the 2008 primaries- the " fairy tale" comment and comparing Obama to Jesse Jackson are a couple of gaffes to come to mind. He himself admitted he was rusty in that campaign and still getting his instincts back after the heart attack.
Why, exactly? Assuming Obama still wins 2008 pretty much the same as IOTL (not a given, actually), as the incumbent, he's unlikely to be challenged for the Democratic nomination.
jahenders
Banned
His support for Obama may have been imperfect or even half-hearted. But, he has remained popular with Democrats in many states and he has been a major fund-raiser for various candidates and for Hillary. That's most of what the "Clinton Foundation" does -- raise funds for Clinton living expenses and for Hillary campaigns.
I think he meant in the general election- Bill's speech at the DNC was very well received and was considered a shot in the arm for the Democrats, but the bump Obama got from the DNC was pretty much eliminated by the first debate anyway. In the end Obama would still win in November.
Corned Beef Renegade
Banned
I wonder if the death of Clinton less then two months before the 04 election would have much of an effect by bringing back fond memories of his presidency.
Reagan died not much earlier. The two may cancel each other out.
As someone who was glued to blogs and cable news during that ridiculously epic primary race, I have fond memories of the massive albatross Bill Clinton became to his wife. When he wasn't trying to upstage her on the stump, he was going off message so hard that her advisors needed Maalox®. To the point where her 08 DNC speech was as much about repairing that damage as it was about "party unity". And his once-sterling reputation in the Black Community never recovered from the his infamously racist "Obama only won South Carolina because he's black!" comment...
- "Bill vs. Barack", The New Yorker, 5/8/08
Now, I don't think that butterflying him away would be enough to help Hillary win per se. Her real problem was being surrounded by hack advisers like Mark Penn who encouraged her to triangulate for a general election in front of a angry primary electorate. As a result, she wound up looking as craven, unprincipled, and focus group tested as anybody this side of Mitt Romney. That's why the debate exchange w/ Chris Dodd over driver's licenses was so f'n devastating and the beginning of the end for Hillary 08:
MRS. CLINTON: I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it. And we have failed-
MR. DODD: Wait a minute. No, no, no. You said, yes, you thought it made sense to do it.
----
MR. RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure what I heard. Do you, the New York Senator Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor’s plan to give illegal immigrants a driver’s license? You told the Nashua, N.H., paper it made a lot of sense.
MRS. CLINTON: It——
MR. RUSSERT: Do you support his plan?
MRS. CLINTON: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays gotcha...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB767W3w594
Because Clinton's 2012 DNC speech was a masterpiece of political salesmanship. Equal parts substance and flash. Charismatic and funny, yet packed with wonky statistics. The sort of speech every "book smart" politician wishes they could make. His 08 speech was good too (Peggy Noonan fawned over it like John Madden breaking down a Favre touchdown - "The Master Has Arrived"), but the '12 speech was on another level.
Obama should still win comfortably without it, but it would've been a smaller convention bump. Of course, maybe that would give Obeezy the impetus to drink a friggin' Red Bull or something before the 1st debate.
- "Bill vs. Barack", The New Yorker, 5/8/08
Now, I don't think that butterflying him away would be enough to help Hillary win per se. Her real problem was being surrounded by hack advisers like Mark Penn who encouraged her to triangulate for a general election in front of a angry primary electorate. As a result, she wound up looking as craven, unprincipled, and focus group tested as anybody this side of Mitt Romney. That's why the debate exchange w/ Chris Dodd over driver's licenses was so f'n devastating and the beginning of the end for Hillary 08:
MRS. CLINTON: I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it. And we have failed-
MR. DODD: Wait a minute. No, no, no. You said, yes, you thought it made sense to do it.
----
MR. RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure what I heard. Do you, the New York Senator Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor’s plan to give illegal immigrants a driver’s license? You told the Nashua, N.H., paper it made a lot of sense.
MRS. CLINTON: It——
MR. RUSSERT: Do you support his plan?
MRS. CLINTON: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays gotcha...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB767W3w594
Because Clinton's 2012 DNC speech was a masterpiece of political salesmanship. Equal parts substance and flash. Charismatic and funny, yet packed with wonky statistics. The sort of speech every "book smart" politician wishes they could make. His 08 speech was good too (Peggy Noonan fawned over it like John Madden breaking down a Favre touchdown - "The Master Has Arrived"), but the '12 speech was on another level.
Obama should still win comfortably without it, but it would've been a smaller convention bump. Of course, maybe that would give Obeezy the impetus to drink a friggin' Red Bull or something before the 1st debate.
Corned Beef Renegade
Banned
The fact that so far most of the discussion in this thread has been detailed discussions of OTL is starting to make me feel like this could be a DBWI from a universe where Clinton actually did die in 2004.