AHC: Turn the USA fascist

ThePest179

Banned
Your goal, if you choose to accept it, is to turn the US into a fascist/right wing dictatorship by any and all means (except a Third World War/nuclear blitz) after 1950. Bonus points if the regime in question is also an anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, Christian theocracy. Double bonus points if Europe drifts into the Soviet sphere of influence in response. Triple bonus points if the fascist USA begins a genocide.
 

Son of Leman Russ

Banned
KKK takeover of US resulting in Amerikkka?

this would be possible only at the height of great depression, where the disillusioned US white populance decides to thrown their lot with KKK, no Grand Wizard rape case would be the starting POD.

But still :
1) Of course it would be anti-semitic

2) Islamophobic? the butterfly would butterfly islamic fundamentalism I'm affraid, but yeah, it would kinda against another religion than Christianity because...

3) It would be kind of Christian Theocracy

4) Europe won't be drawn to soviet, more likely that with threat of Amerikkka doomed French and British, but Nazis and fascists just get their natural allies in America... Europe will end up under Nazi boots at worst, and end up adopting fascism at best.

5) Genocide? Did you just say continuation of 19th century American policies on Native Americans?
 

ThePest179

Banned
Son of Leman Russ said:
KKK takeover of US resulting in Amerikkka?

this would be possible only at the height of great depression, where the disillusioned US white populance decides to thrown their lot with KKK, no Grand Wizard rape case would be the starting POD.

But still :
1) Of course it would be anti-semitic

2) Islamophobic? the butterfly would butterfly islamic fundamentalism I'm affraid, but yeah, it would kinda against another religion than Christianity because...

3) It would be kind of Christian Theocracy

4) Europe won't be drawn to soviet, more likely that with threat of Amerikkka doomed French and British, but Nazis and fascists just get their natural allies in America... Europe will end up under Nazi boots at worst, and end up adopting fascism at best.

5) Genocide? Did you just say continuation of 19th century American policies on Native Americans?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that doesn't fit the bill. It has to be after 1950. Personally, I think anti-Islam feelings may still be achieved if Malcolm X gets more millitaristic/aggressive.
 

Blair

Drew's Rumsfeldia anyone?

1) Anti-Semitic, Islamophobic
-> more xenophobic than anything else but close

2) Christian theocracy
-> not quite, but 'Merica is a Christian nation' stuff is going on

3) Double bonus points if Europe drifts into the Soviet sphere of influence in response
-> hinted at, seems to be the direction things are going

4)Triple bonus points if the fascist USA begins a genocide
-> Tactfully avoiding the touchy subject of the US backed 'Greater Israel' ITTL, the US actively supports the borderline genocidal South African apartheid regime.
 

President Farrakhan

Oh, this one's fairly easy.

You ever been to Philly? You can't ride SEPTA for long without seeing a black woman in a full burqa. Sunni Islam has grown exponentially in Black America - the "Nation of Islam" was never "real" Islam and its little more than a Scientology cult coasting off of Farrakhan's charisma now.

So let's say Al Qaeda/Islamic State/Al-Shabab/you-get-the-idea have success in recruiting a significant number of negroes for some Allah forsaken reason. (I think Al-Zawhiri saw where I'm going here because he once made a video trying to recruit us and praising Malcolm X as a "martyr for Islam" :eek:)

Now, White America still isn't even generally aware of how many black muslims there are now. So let's butter the toast first with a few n-words perpetrating suicide bombs and an American version of Beslan. Then these brothers detonate a Pakistani nuke in a major American city. More Americans die in a single day than in the Civil War. The sitting President was attacked during the election for being too far to the right, repeatedly making Islamophobic statements, and having an "purely historical" affinity for Confederate battle flags.

Go over to FreeRepublic.com, look at a few threads about Muslims, a single Mike Brown thread, then search the site for "Milosevic" for good measure. This is the Far-Right in OTL, where there hasn't been suicide bombings, school shootings are apolitical, the worst terror attack killed a mere 3,000 people, and the bloodiest day in American history is still the Galveston hurricane. I think Jack H. Jacobs was the one who said that a nuclear terrorist attack would make the American people practically demand an outright fascist government. Things would be.....apoplectic. I always joke that they'd call the concentration camps "Freedom Camps" lol.

Yeah, I've had this scenario in my head since the mid 2000s and I'm kind of afraid of that really happening IOTL. Ha ha ha. >_>
 

Alstein

I think there's enough libertarian types now that your nightmare scenario even in such a case is unlikely. If it happened 5-10 years ago it could.

My nightmare scenario is more localized. Rising unemployment leads to riots, and red states pass fascist laws to keep the unemployed down with forced labour camps. More like a feudalist-fascist hybrid.
 

Magister

ThePest179 said:
Your goal, if you choose to accept it, is to turn the US into a fascist/right wing dictatorship by any and all means (except a Third World War/nuclear blitz) after 1950.
Click to expand...

M'hmm. Crude and very general (I'm tired; two young pussy-cats still don't quite like going nighty-night at reasonable hours :D ), but here goes.

1950s

Black civil rights movement and White Supremacist counter-movement inherently more radical/vioent (each feeding off the other). Several extremely nasty confrontations (take your pick as to which historical incidents are more viciously inflamed in this TL). By the end of the '50s, nothing has been achieved apart from tremendous distrust and radicalisation of both camps plus a good minority of the white population, hardened by bombings by black radicals, and otherwise moderate blacks outraged by increasingly hard-line government response.

1960s: Cuban Missile Crisis; Kenedy Assasination; very limited nuclear exchange

In the midst of the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kenedy is assasinated by a black radical Muslim extremist. The immediate and appalling result is an escalation to a limited nuclear exchange between U.S. forces and the Soviet commander in control of the new Cuban missile base. Three Soviet missiles are launched before Moscow can stop the exchange. One fails to detonate, a second engulfs a U.S. destroyer. But the third (City Buster) explodes over...? It should be a southern U.S. city; somewhere most likely further inflame black/white tentions (whites blame blacks not just for Kenedy's assassination, but for the resulting carnage). Charleston, perhaps? The result is a U.S. Nuclear response against Russian Cuban military base, a nuclear strike on Havanna, followed by a full invasion. Castro and his regime is not treated kindly. Soviet prisoners also are tried as war criminals and executed out-of-hand. Very nearly a full U.S. Soviet nuclear exchange, but averted, just.

1967: Six-Day War:

Already far more hard-line than our TL due to continuing domestic trouble, the U.S. is tremendously more generous in weapons deals with Israel. The result (encouraged by U.S. hard-line military) is an even greater disparity between Arab and Israeli forces.

1969: Madman Theory taken to it's logical conclusion

Nixon decides to use a single nuclear weapon as a terror-weapon against China. Peking is hit by a 1MT weapon. The Soviets are outraged, but stop just short of a nuclear response.

1972: Munich Olympics: Israeli and U.S. athletes massacred

Due to U.S. greater and harder-line support for Israel and anti-Islamic rhetoric from severl hard-line U.S. politicians, Arab terrorists decide to target both Israeli and U.S. athletes. Made up entirely of Islamic extremists, they employ ISIS-style terror tactics, holding hostages and beheading athletes and also an American journalist who was caught in the siege. The result is a massacre far worse than in OTL and a combined U.S. and Israeli response against Middle-East Arab military targets.

All right; was going to continue to Iran and the Iotola, but I'm simply too ready to go for a curl. Anyway, one should be able to extrapolate things just getting worse and worse from here.

Christian fundamentalist (or at least heavily influenced in that direction)? Shouldn't be a problem. Anti-Islamic. Again, definitely this should set the groundwork. Fascist? So long as things keep getting worse and everybody becomes ever-more radicalised; it should work. Anti-semitic? Probably impossible in this scenario. Unless of course you want to broaden the definition a little to include Arabs? Genocide? Ensure no hope of progress for black civil rights due to continuing domestic trouble and radical elements on both sides should keep growing more and more extreme until finally something truly spectacular blows up. After that: a military coup or hard-line right-wing elected government promising to suppress the troublemakers by any means. And you have your African-American genocide, or at least something that well might lead to that being likely.

Far from perfect (probably border-line ASB to be honest), but I'm too tired at the moment to come up with something more plausible.
 

Passepartout

President Farrakhan said:
(I think Al-Zawhiri saw where I'm going here because he once made a video trying to recruit us and praising Malcolm X as a "martyr for Islam" :eek:)
Click to expand...

Malcolm X did move away from the Nation of Islam and towards Sunni Islam if I remember correctly, so he's probably the best choice for propaganda if your goal is to recruit black people and your constraint is that you are trying to endorse Wahhabism.
 

ThePest179

Banned
Magister said:
M'hmm. Crude and very general (I'm tired; two young pussy-cats still don't quite like going nighty-night at reasonable hours :D ), but here goes.

1950s

Black civil rights movement and White Supremacist counter-movement inherently more radical/vioent (each feeding off the other). Several extremely nasty confrontations (take your pick as to which historical incidents are more viciously inflamed in this TL). By the end of the '50s, nothing has been achieved apart from tremendous distrust and radicalisation of both camps plus a good minority of the white population, hardened by bombings by black radicals, and otherwise moderate blacks outraged by increasingly hard-line government response.

1960s: Cuban Missile Crisis; Kenedy Assasination; very limited nuclear exchange

In the midst of the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kenedy is assasinated by a black radical Muslim extremist. The immediate and appalling result is an escalation to a limited nuclear exchange between U.S. forces and the Soviet commander in control of the new Cuban missile base. Three Soviet missiles are launched before Moscow can stop the exchange. One fails to detonate, a second engulfs a U.S. destroyer. But the third (City Buster) explodes over...? It should be a southern U.S. city; somewhere most likely further inflame black/white tentions (whites blame blacks not just for Kenedy's assassination, but for the resulting carnage). Charleston, perhaps? The result is a U.S. Nuclear response against Russian Cuban military base, a nuclear strike on Havanna, followed by a full invasion. Castro and his regime is not treated kindly. Soviet prisoners also are tried as war criminals and executed out-of-hand. Very nearly a full U.S. Soviet nuclear exchange, but averted, just.

1967: Six-Day War:

Already far more hard-line than our TL due to continuing domestic trouble, the U.S. is tremendously more generous in weapons deals with Israel. The result (encouraged by U.S. hard-line military) is an even greater disparity between Arab and Israeli forces.

1969: Madman Theory taken to it's logical conclusion

Nixon decides to use a single nuclear weapon as a terror-weapon against China. Peking is hit by a 1MT weapon. The Soviets are outraged, but stop just short of a nuclear response.

1972: Munich Olympics: Israeli and U.S. athletes massacred

Due to U.S. greater and harder-line support for Israel and anti-Islamic rhetoric from severl hard-line U.S. politicians, Arab terrorists decide to target both Israeli and U.S. athletes. Made up entirely of Islamic extremists, they employ ISIS-style terror tactics, holding hostages and beheading athletes and also an American journalist who was caught in the siege. The result is a massacre far worse than in OTL and a combined U.S. and Israeli response against Middle-East Arab military targets.

All right; was going to continue to Iran and the Iotola, but I'm simply too ready to go for a curl. Anyway, one should be able to extrapolate things just getting worse and worse from here.

Christian fundamentalist (or at least heavily influenced in that direction)? Shouldn't be a problem. Anti-Islamic. Again, definitely this should set the groundwork. Fascist? So long as things keep getting worse and everybody becomes ever-more radicalised; it should work. Anti-semitic? Probably impossible in this scenario. Unless of course you want to broaden the definition a little to include Arabs? Genocide? Ensure no hope of progress for black civil rights due to continuing domestic trouble and radical elements on both sides should keep growing more and more extreme until finally something truly spectacular blows up. After that: a military coup or hard-line right-wing elected government promising to suppress the troublemakers by any means. And you have your African-American genocide, or at least something that well might lead to that being likely.

Far from perfect (probably border-line ASB to be honest), but I'm too tired at the moment to come up with something more plausible.
Click to expand...

Seems really far out. What about a fascist movement in the worst days of the Red Scare?
 
Tom Colton

Tom Colton

Come to think of it, A World of Laughter, A World of Tears by statichaos fits the bill pretty well, with organisations set up to combat "immorality" and "deviant thinking" utilising the worst of psycho-junk and even an analogue to the Hitler Youth in the Disney Defenders.
 

Ultimate Paragon

Banned
Son of Leman Russ said:
KKK takeover of US resulting in Amerikkka?

this would be possible only at the height of great depression, where the disillusioned US white populance decides to thrown their lot with KKK, no Grand Wizard rape case would be the starting POD.

But still :
1) Of course it would be anti-semitic

2) Islamophobic? the butterfly would butterfly islamic fundamentalism I'm affraid, but yeah, it would kinda against another religion than Christianity because...

3) It would be kind of Christian Theocracy

4) Europe won't be drawn to soviet, more likely that with threat of Amerikkka doomed French and British, but Nazis and fascists just get their natural allies in America... Europe will end up under Nazi boots at worst, and end up adopting fascism at best.

5) Genocide? Did you just say continuation of 19th century American policies on Native Americans?
Click to expand...

The Ku Klux Klan was evil, yes, but it wasn't fascist. There are a number of differences. Fascism is ultra-nationalistic, whereas the Klan was regionalist.

But back to the challenge. I think it might be possible if Joe McCarthy actually manages to catch real communist spies. I could see that resulting in a new, authoritarian America.
 

Snowstalker

Bush is killed on 9/11, Cheney stays in effective power but due to health reasons passes over the presidency to a more effective unifying figure.
 

J.D.Ward

Donor
Magister said:
1950s

Black civil rights movement and White Supremacist counter-movement inherently more radical/vioent (each feeding off the other). Several extremely nasty confrontations (take your pick as to which historical incidents are more viciously inflamed in this TL). By the end of the '50s, nothing has been achieved apart from tremendous distrust and radicalisation of both camps plus a good minority of the white population, hardened by bombings by black radicals, and otherwise moderate blacks outraged by increasingly hard-line government response.
Click to expand...

I bow to the superior knowledge of the American contributors here about the recent history of their country, but I would like to suggest a specific event in 1963.

What happens if George Wallace refuses to back down at the Stand in the Schoolhouse Door? After the shooting stops, Wallace is dead.
He goes down to history as a martyr to the cause of Americanism, Alabama's Horst Wessel.
 

Johnrankins

J.D.Ward said:
I bow to the superior knowledge of the American contributors here about the recent history of their country, but I would like to suggest a specific event in 1963.

What happens if George Wallace refuses to back down at the Stand in the Schoolhouse Door? After the shooting stops, Wallace is dead.
He goes down to history as a martyr to the cause of Americanism, Alabama's Horst Wessel.
Click to expand...

You would have to change his personality as part of that was theatrical. He once lost an election in Alabama for being to LIBERAL on race! :eek::eek: He then said he would never again be "out-niggered" by an opponent. That just shows you what kind of sad state Alabama was in the 1950s!
 
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