The Imperial Machine Carbine ‘or’ how the Owen gun armed an Empire

Just something I wrote today whilst pretending to work :D (everyone is surfing the internet)

This is one of my Darlings - The Owen gun becoming the principle SMG arming Imperial troops in the 2nd World War

The POD is a the Failed 2nd London Naval Treaty in 1935/6

Comments welcome:

The Imperial Machine Carbine ‘or’ how the Owen gun armed an Empire

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When Britain started to rearm in 1937 after the failure of the 1936 2nd London Naval Treaty it became obvious to all but the most verdant isolationists that Britain needed to start the process of rearmament in the face of the militarism being displayed by nations such as Germany, Russia, Italy and Japan as well as the disappointing failure of the League of Nations.

With regards to small arms the British had already made plans to replace the aging Lewis Machine gun with the Czechoslovakian designed Bren gun and develop a medium machine gun called the BESA based on another Czechoslovakian weapon mainly for use in tanks.

Eventually the decision was made to make the long anticipated change to a rimless round and it was decided that 7.92 Mauser round was the best choice as this would simplify the conversion of the existing weapons then in production around Europe.

Indeed it was thought that changing the Bren gun to .303 would delay its introduction by up to 2 years and this made it necessary to replace the aging SMLE .303 bolt action rifle.

The Winner of the subsequent Self Loading rifle trial was a modified version of the ZH29 known as the SLEN (Self loading Enfield) also chambered in 7.92 Mauser and using a 10 round ‘detachable box magazine’ (reloaded with 5 round stripper clips) and using the same sights as the SMLE. Later carbine variants would allow use of the 20 and 30 round magazines but this was not introduced until the 2nd Great War had commenced and then only initially for Paratrooper and Commando units.

However by 1938 Britain still had not chosen a Submachine gun or machine Carbine – mainly due to the more conservative elements in the army – and many in the establishment believed that this would place Imperial soldiers at a disadvantage in any future continental land war as Italy Russia and Germany all used SMGs.

And so somewhat belatedly a committee – The Machine Carbine Committee of 1938 - after several months of trials chose a simplified version of the 9mm Para Czechoslovakian ZK-383 being built for the Bulgarian Police and military.

This weapon an improved version of the classic MP18 was based on the ‘Police’ version of that weapon as it was felt that a bipod and removable barrel was not needed. Several amendments where made – for example it was made to fit into the SMLE Stock and use the same trigger and safety to simplify construction and training – pre-production models had the same sights as the SMLE but this was replaced with a simple flip up ‘peep’ sight for 100 and 200 yards.

And so by 1939 this weapon officially known as the ZEM Gun (Zbrojovka Brno Enfield Machine Carbine No 1) entered full scale production at 2 former SMLE Factories.

Although simplified for mass production and while additional factories were built in 1939 and 1940 the supply of these weapons could not keep up with demand as the BEF went from 4 Divisions in 1938 to 25 Divisions in 1940 (when hostilities began).

As the fighting in Belgium and France of May and June 1940 settled down to a more static form of warfare after the encirclement and partial destruction of the Panzer Army the usefulness of Sub Machine guns and automatic weapons in general became apparent and the current stock of ‘Machine Carbines’ was inadequate.

The purchase of 25,000 M1 Thompson Sub Machine guns went some way towards addressing this issue but these guns where expensive and while well liked by the troops, it was heavy and not as reliable as the ZEM No1A1.
So a new committee was formed - The Machine Carbine Committee of 1940
This looked at Several weapons and conducted trials with them

The M1A1 Thompson

The MP38 (Several thousand had been captured and this was to be used as the bench mark)

A prototype metal stamped version of the current ZEM Gun

A prototype and very simple Enfield weapon designed to be built in a variety of civilian factories called the STEN gun

Lastly an odd looking Australian Design just entering limited production in Australia called the Owen Gun – with 2 versions chambering for the both .45 and 9mm

After 3 months of testing the Owen was the clear winner (indeed the only design to be able to fire after the sand test) and the 9mm design was cleared for full production with changes limited to being able to use the same magazine as the ZEM.

By 1942 the production numbers of the Owens No1A1 had over taken the ZEM No1A1 and by the war’s end in 1946 (VJ day) over 3 million had been made across the Empire and the image of Imperial Soldiers armed with this weapon is synonymous with the British Empires role in the war.

In the face of the Owen Guns obvious superiority production of the ZEM was discontinued in 1943 and those factories switched production to either the Owens or SLEN Carbines.

The Thompson SMG was withdrawn from front line service in 1942, mainly to simplify ammunition resupply and training although many units managed to retain them.

The ZEM soldiered on although all of the units sent to South East Asia for the Invasion of Japan were re-equipped with Owens, SLEM ‘Carbines’ No5 Rifles and the Lightened shorter barrel Bren Mk3 – and the older Sub Machine gun still equipped Divisions based in Europe and elsewhere into the late 40s it was eventually placed in reserve although was used by Royal Navy Reserve and some Colonial and ex-Colonial forces up until the 70s.

The Sten gun despite not entering massed production was simplified still and produced in limited numbers and provided to resistance fighters across Europe. A silenced version also entered limited production and eventually found its way into many units that required a silence weapon. More importantly the design of the weapon was so simple that tens of thousands of STENs where manufactured under the noses of the Nazis all across those nations under Nazi occupation (and a few under Communist occupation!) including an entire factory in the Czech Republic that was producing them side by side with the shock absorbers it was supposed to be making for 2 years without discovery.

The Owens Produced in such numbers that despite production stopping in 1947 it continued to equip forces of the British Commonwealth well into the 50s when introduction of the Stirling designed ‘Sterling’ Sub machine gun replaced it.

Owen himself despite having had little to do with the weapon since 1941 (he served in the Australian army and was medically discharged in 1944) received a bounty of £50,000 from a grateful Empire (Owen had waived his right to a licence fee) and was due to be knighted in 1949 but sadly died early that year aged 33.

A statue of him was erected in his home town of Wollongong, Australia based on the famous Picture of him in uniform posing with the gun.

The brass inscription below repeats Churchill’s famous remark

Evelyn Ernest Owen (15 May 1915 – 9th May 1949) – “The Man that armed an Empire”
 
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The Owen was a brilliant piece of design and definitely the best SMG of WW2 which never got the attention it deserved outside the Pacific.

In the OTL however

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/submachine-guns/owen-smg/

Worth looking just for the live fire video.

They also have a copy of the manual on the site.

I love that site - I always take Ian(?) to task in his 2 gun matches about being a lefty! :D

I totally agree to my mind the Owen Gun is easily the best SMG of the war the Aussie Klashnikov - and to think designed in some blokes kitchen and then almost forgotten about......
 
Is this a one shot or a TL, if the 2nd London Naval Treaty fails, how does this affect the Navy itself?

I am working on a expanded TL regarding a failed 2LNT and a 'Cold' Confrontation over Xmas 35 in the med with Italy (over events in East Africa when France and Britain force Italy to back down over Ethiopia).

Italy picks up its ball and goes home pulling out of the 2LNT and Germany and Japan follow suit - blaming "British and French Agression".

This POD drives forward rearmament and a subsequant earlier loosening of purse strings with production numbers and the Strength of the British Military being about a year ahead of OTL by 1940.

The Main changes to the Navy are an effective abandonment of the Treaty limits.

The KGVs being built as originally intended with increased armor

All 3 turrets are quads and the weight is increased to 40,000 tons to allow for increased armour and subsequant increase of length. This actually allows them to be built faster as there is no delay over the the twin 14" Turret.

The Illustrious Carriers also benefit from not being constrained by the treaty limits with the ships being built as intended with the 2nd hanger and the lower hanger being high enough to store Amphibians along with 4 shafts not 3.

The last of the Towns are built with triple 8" guns instead of 6" and the subsequant Crown colony class are effectively more of this "Heavy Town" again with 4 x triple 8" Guns.

Historians call these 13 ships the 'Belfast' Class

Other than this no real changes just British Industry ramping up earlier than OTL.
 
Interesting take! I honestly thought you were going to go with a different POD and have owen make some design changes prior to his demonstration in 1939. Earlier adoption of a box magazine, a larger cartridge, and a proper trigger/safety would IMO lead to the Owen replacing the STEN easily.
 
Interesting take! I honestly thought you were going to go with a different POD and have owen make some design changes prior to his demonstration in 1939. Earlier adoption of a box magazine, a larger cartridge, and a proper trigger/safety would IMO lead to the Owen replacing the STEN easily.

The British Empire were slow adopters of SMGs and so I only wanted to bring the introduction forward by a few years.

This means that with a greater interest in SMGs 'earlier' more interest in Evelyns gun is taken in 1939

Production of the ZEM is insufficient for arming of Imperial troops out side of Europe and so the Australian Government take a greater interest in Owen SMG pretty much from 1939.
 

marathag

Banned
The Owen was a brilliant piece of design and definitely the best SMG of WW2 which never got the attention it deserved outside the Pacific.

You seemed to have misspelled 'Suomi'

20, 36, or 50 round box magazine, or 71 round drum. Very accurate, even on full auto. The 'Coffin' magazine was very compact, being a quad row rather than double or single stack. Quick change barrel.

Downside was it was machined, not stamped
 
You seemed to have misspelled 'Suomi'

20, 36, or 50 round box magazine, or 71 round drum. Very accurate, even on full auto. The 'Coffin' magazine was very compact, being a quad row rather than double or single stack. Quick change barrel.

Downside was it was machined, not stamped

No he has not misspelt anything.

Also 20 Round Mag (Reissued for WW2 due to cost)

36 Round mag - Swedish design made in the 50s

50 Round mag - Swedish design - failure due to relatively delicate construction resulted in slightest deformation which would result in a jam - they stopped using it in 43

70 round Drum - Brilliant Design - very reliable - only downside was weight and lack of suitable webbing / pouches etc - as issued - 5 per weapon.

The Suomi is a very good gun - but its far more expensive and far more difficult to make than an Owen.

The Owen was not much more expensive or difficult to make than the Sten gun was!

I know the Suomi was a good gun but the Owen would just keep working regardless of the conditions it was subjected too and other than not having a 70 round Drum mag would do everything the KP/31 could do.

I am not a fan of Drum mags or large capacity mags if I'm honest.

They make the weapon much too heavy - the '70' round Drum (you didn't put 72 rounds in it as it wouldn't work very well) increases the Suomi's weight to over 7 kgs* - this make sense in that this weapon was intended pre-war to be a very light Section or Squad automatic weapon (hence the removable barrel) but the gun was inadequate in this role and the Finns introduced captured DPs for this role instead.

Drum Mags are more difficult to carry@, change and reload compared to Stick mags and heavier "bullet for bullet" than Stick mags.


*For an extra couple of Kilos you can have a Bren gun and the British already had this!

@Finnish soldiers had to improvise as no webbing was ever produced for the 70 round Drum mag - but they seem to have gotten by and the Russians were obviously impressed.
 
The Owen gun was a great SMG, but I am not sure as to the cost - I once read (cannot remember where) that the unit cost of production was 9 Pounds, which is more than the weekly wage at the time.
However, that may have been due to small quantities made in Australia, a ramped up production would certainly bring the price down.
 
The Owen cost $30 to produce (£7.42 using wartime exchange rate), STEN prices dropped to £2.00 and $200 for a Thompson M1A1 (£49.50 wartime exchange rates).

It was probably still cheaper for the Australians to make the Owen than to licence the production of the inferior STEN, plus the Owen worked and worked well in the most horrendous conditions.
 

marathag

Banned
The Owen cost $30 to produce (£7.42 using wartime exchange rate), STEN prices dropped to £2.00 and $200 for a Thompson M1A1 (£49.50 wartime exchange rates).

It was probably still cheaper for the Australians to make the Owen than to licence the production of the inferior STEN, plus the Owen worked and worked well in the most horrendous conditions.

M3 Grease Gun was made by GM's Guide Lamp for under $20 including royalties, shipping, R&D, parts, and assembly.

EDIT first M3 was around $23

Exchange rate of the Pound to the US Dollar was $4.03, so call it roughly £5.71 for total cost per gun, and not just material cost per gun

Still the best bargain, and gets cheaper yet with the M3A1

How much was the Oz STEN, the Austen, to have cost?
 
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I am lucky enough to have fired an Owen and it was a lovely thing to shoot (apart from the odd misfire because the ammo we had was some dodgy old Yugoslavian stuff and the primers were junk). Even I could hit a target at 50 yards and firing a 3 or 4 round burst you could hit with all rounds I think the overhead mag and a good solid butstock meant the muzzle didnt climb all over the place.

Only downside it was a bit heavier than a Sten but it did seem to be made of good thick steel.

Also fired an M3A1 and while it was a bit better than a Sten MkII it had horrible ergonomics that seemed to have been designed by a man with 3 hands and one of them made of Asbestos.
 
You seemed to have misspelled 'Suomi'

20, 36, or 50 round box magazine, or 71 round drum. Very accurate, even on full auto. The 'Coffin' magazine was very compact, being a quad row rather than double or single stack. Quick change barrel.

Downside was it was machined, not stamped

Th Owen had the same problem, they were both first generation machined SMGs that couldn't be modified to use stamped parts and required skilled workers. Despite being cheaper than Suomi or Thompson, the Owen cannot be produced rapidly using non-specialist manufacturers like the toy company that made the Sten.
 
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