Regia Marina has Wings

tigercat

Thought it was time for the Italians to be examined in terms of a Fleet Air Arm .

Now Italy is probably worse off in term of resources than Germany so anything we change will have an impact elsewhere.

I think the Italians need

1) a source of Fuel, so maybe Libya if it's accessible with the technology available.
2) It's own Fleet Air Arm
3) a decent dive bomber and time to train the crews.
4) an effective naval marine aeronautical control and command system so the fleet air arm could be summoned
5) and in order for them to arrive in time radar to give forewarning.

They already have the carrier Italia launched in 1861 which is unsinkable so resources diverted into the floaty kind would be wasted.

In fact given their strengths they'd be better off with some kind of CLAC to borrow a concept from the Honor Harrington universe .
 
Insider

Insider

Banned
They had a chance. British were trying to get rid of the WWI fare HMS Argus, which was converted from Italian ship. Regia Marina didn't wanted to buy it back. If they would get it early on they would have
2) and 3). They could have enough time to develop 4).

You forgot about the most important.
0) money to finance all below.

What is CLAC? The only reference google give me is either Canadian Labour Union or language course.
 

CarribeanViking

Attack boat carrier; and it never made sense in reality either.

All through the predreadnought period, there were many ships designed and built without the designers having the benefit of reality to guide them; one idea that turned up several times was that of essentially mounting torpedoes on a large ship's carried small craft, replacing longboats and launches with small MTB; was done for several of them.

The basic problem was that it took no account of the difficulties of conducting boat work under fire- they were like seaplanes in that you really need a cooperative or at any rate unsuspecting enemy to let you get away with it. Rarely used and even more rarely successful.
 

lukedalton

Now problem is not technical is burocratic, basically Regia Marina and the newly born Regia Aeronautica fight over the overall controll of the aircrafts.
Make the plan to transform the already build part of the Francesco Carracciolo battleship in an aircraft carrier go through and thanks to the magic of burocratic inertia and interservice rivality Regia Marina will not want get rid of air wings once she get them.
 

Lost Freeway

Banned
Insider said:
0) money to finance all below.

What is CLAC? The only reference google give me is either Canadian Labour Union or language course.
Click to expand...

The Honorverse wiki tells me that the CLAC is a type of spaceship used to carry smaller attack ships. Basically, aircraft carriers IN SPACE.
 

I want to learn

The Italians didn't need an aircraft carrier, they needed to use their land based airplanes sensibly. The SM.79 was an effective torpedo bomber, but the Italians didn't form a unit to use them as such until after they entered the war.
 

abc123

Banned
I want to learn said:
The Italians didn't need an aircraft carrier, they needed to use their land based airplanes sensibly. .
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X

Italy, with it's central position in the Mediterranean, bases in Sardinia and Sicily, Dodecanese, Libya, possibility to obtain them in Baleares during Spanish Civil War- really has no need for aircraft carriers.
 

lukedalton

abc123 said:
X

Italy, with it's central position in the Mediterranean, bases in Sardinia and Sicily, Dodecanese, Libya, possibility to obtain them in Baleares during Spanish Civil War- really has no need for aircraft carriers.
Click to expand...

This mean that Navy and Air Force talk to each others and work together...it's easier and faster to build carrier and train the pilot.
The sad thing is that i was not joking:(.

Benny like to put potential rivals against each other so he promoted interservice rivalry to ridiculous level.
 

Lost Freeway

Banned
abc123 said:
X

Italy, with it's central position in the Mediterranean, bases in Sardinia and Sicily, Dodecanese, Libya, possibility to obtain them in Baleares during Spanish Civil War- really has no need for aircraft carriers.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the OP made no mention of Italy building aircraft carriers.
 

tigercat

I'm not convinced they need one unless it is as mentioned as a catalyst to give the Italians a Fleet Air Arm.

What they need is a decent divebomber. Not sure if they should just buy all the Stukas Germany will sell them or develop their own.



From Wikipedia


At the beginning of the twentieth century, Italy was at the forefront of aerial warfare: during the colonization of Libya in 1911, it made the first reconnaissance flight in history on 23 October, and the first ever bombing raid on 1 November.

During World War I, the Italian Corpo Aeronautico Militare, then still part of the Regio Esercito (Royal Army), operated a mix of French fighters and locally-built bombers, notably the gigantic Caproni aircraft. The Regia Marina (Royal Navy) had its own air arm, operating locally-built flying boats."

So their was a Fleet Air Arm as late as 1918 , I assume when the Italian Air Force became independent in 1923 was when it was disbanded.
 
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Alex1guy

Tom Colton said:
Knowing the Italians they would have found a way of sinking or scuttling the unsinkable RN Italia. :p
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Like they'll refit a carrier and when they are launching it down the slipways it'll only half the chains will be taken off and tear clean in two? :p

I'm pretty sure the OP made no mention of Italy building aircraft carriers.
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Generally what these "Has wings" threads entail, at least on this board.
 

tigercat

I'm pretty sure they need dedicated land based navy controlled air assets more than they need an aircraft carrier.
 
Tom Colton

Tom Colton

Alex1guy said:
Like they'll refit a carrier and when they are launching it down the slipways it'll only half the chains will be taken off and tear clean in two? :p
Click to expand...

Tear...the Italian peninsula...in two?

Is the Regia Marina basically commanded by Scrat from Ice Age? :D
 

zoomar

Honestly, as long as Italy's principal sphere of interest remains the Mediterranean, and Italy also bases aircraft in Libya, do they really aircraft carriers? The Italian peninsula allows Italy to project airpower quite well and it doesn't sink. This was the thinking of the Italians immediately after the Washington Treaty when they abandoned all plans to build carriers, and it was pretty sound thinking at the time. The invasion and occupation of Ethiopia changed this a bit, I suppose. And of course today Italy's membership in NATO certainly justifies its small carriers, since NATO has areas of responsibility outside of Europe these days
 

tigercat

This is exactly what I'm saying. No aircraft carriers are necessary but a land based naval air strike force would make sense.
 

thaddeus

Donor
CarribeanViking said:
Attack boat carrier; and it never made sense in reality either.

All through the predreadnought period, there were many ships designed and built without the designers having the benefit of reality to guide them; one idea that turned up several times was that of essentially mounting torpedoes on a large ship's carried small craft, replacing longboats and launches with small MTB; was done for several of them.

The basic problem was that it took no account of the difficulties of conducting boat work under fire- they were like seaplanes in that you really need a cooperative or at any rate unsuspecting enemy to let you get away with it. Rarely used and even more rarely successful.
Click to expand...

thanks for the summary.

the only instance of launching small attack craft that seems plausible was German raiders and as you suggested "on unsuspecting enemy"
 

tigercat

CarribeanViking said:
Attack boat carrier; and it never made sense in reality either.

All through the predreadnought period, there were many ships designed and built without the designers having the benefit of reality to guide them; one idea that turned up several times was that of essentially mounting torpedoes on a large ship's carried small craft, replacing longboats and launches with small MTB; was done for several of them.

The basic problem was that it took no account of the difficulties of conducting boat work under fire- they were like seaplanes in that you really need a cooperative or at any rate unsuspecting enemy to let you get away with it. Rarely used and even more rarely successful.
Click to expand...



My imagination combines a whaling ship ramp with that Tanker from James bond swallowing up the small craft but I imagine the reality is slightly less cinematic and quick.
 
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