Your ideal lingua franca for the Philippines

Joseph Solis in Australia · Aug 1, 2015

The POD is no later than 1935. If you are a leader of the Philippines, what would be your ideal lingua franca for Filipinos and why you choose such language.

If you ask me, I prefer Spanish rather than Tagalog because for a Tagalog to communicate a Visaya way back 1900, you need to be a conversant in Spanish, thus Spanish was and should be the lingua franca for the Philippines. For me, the selection of Tagalog as national language in 1935 was a mistake because it alienated Visayans which were more numerous than Tagalogs that time.

marathag · Aug 1, 2015

English, so it will be more than the Half speaking it now.

Joseph Solis in Australia · Aug 1, 2015

marathag said:
English, so it will be more than the Half speaking it now.

If your POD is after WWII, English might be considered but my POD is before 1935.

Driftless · Aug 1, 2015

At the end of Spanish rule in 1898, what would have been a general population count using one of the major local dialects vs Spanish as a 2nd language? I realize there were/are numerous local dialects in the Philippines, but I'm thinking of the "parent" language groups that are easily enough understood across groups. You mentioned Visayan(covers the central islands) vs Tagalog(which is mainly Luzon, correct?) Visayan has several variants, as well? I could see Spanish as a logical linking language in 1898 on a practical level(probably the language of business and government then), but probably not acceptable on an emotional, nationalistic level.

Would the language user population breakout remain roughly the same up to your 1935 deadline?

Joseph Solis in Australia · Aug 2, 2015

Driftless said:
At the end of Spanish rule in 1898, what would have been a general population count using one of the major local dialects vs Spanish as a 2nd language? I realize there were/are numerous local dialects in the Philippines, but I'm thinking of the "parent" language groups that are easily enough understood across groups. You mentioned Visayan(covers the central islands) vs Tagalog(which is mainly Luzon, correct?) Visayan has several variants, as well? I could see Spanish as a logical linking language in 1898 on a practical level(probably the language of business and government then), but probably not acceptable on an emotional, nationalistic level.

Would the language user population breakout remain roughly the same up to your 1935 deadline?

After 1898, there were 50% of Filipinos who can speak Spanish as second language and 10% as first language, this is similar of today that 69% of Filipinos can speak English as second or third language and 1% as first language. In conclusion, Spanish had more native speakers in percentage basis in 1898 than English of today. The reality of 1898 was similar right after the independence of Mexico where only 30% can speak Spanish as first language and right now 90%. What happened in Mexico would have happened in the Philippines had Spanish language was selected as the national language with two scenarios where Americans granted the Philippines an independence at the same time as Cuba or the delegates of 1934 Constitutional Convention favored Spanish.

Namayan · Aug 2, 2015

Joseph Solis in Australia said:
The POD is no later than 1935. If you are a leader of the Philippines, what would be your ideal lingua franca for Filipinos and why you choose such language.

If you ask me, I prefer Spanish rather than Tagalog because for a Tagalog to communicate a Visaya way back 1900, you need to be a conversant in Spanish, thus Spanish was and should be the lingua franca for the Philippines. For me, the selection of Tagalog as national language in 1935 was a mistake because it alienated Visayans which were more numerous than Tagalogs that time.

I don't think it is a mistake. the great thing about this is the head of languages under quezon one of those who made the decision was a Visayan. So if you want to know why they chose it you got to research on how they came up with that decision.

marathag said:
English, so it will be more than the Half speaking it now.

Actually there are more people speaking English in the Philippines otl than any native language combined, if I remembered that stat correctly, English speakers are around 98-99%.

Joseph Solis in Australia · Aug 2, 2015

Namayan said:
I don't think it is a mistake. the great thing about this is the head of languages under quezon one of those who made the decision was a Visayan. So if you want to know why they chose it you got to research on how they came up with that decision.

He was Waray to be exact. The convention was dominated by the monolithic Tagalog group while the Visayan group were divided because of earlier factionalism between Osmeña and Quezon.

Actually there are more people speaking English in the Philippines otl than any native language combined, if I remembered that stat correctly, English speakers are around 98-99%.

99% is quite too high. If you refer to Tagalog, you may be right because it is more universal than English as far as the Philippines is concerned.

"In the poll, three-fourths of Filipino adults (76 percent) say they understand spoken English; 75 percent say they read English; three out of five (61 percent) say they're comfortable writing in English; close to half (46 percent) say they speak English; about two-fifths (38 percent) say they think in English; while 8 percent say they are not competent in any way when it comes to the English language."

http://www.zdnet.com/article/philippines-outsourcing-ambition-spurs-english-proficiency/

Driftless · Aug 2, 2015

I (briefly) compared the common use languages of India & Pakistan to the idea of a Philippine Lingua Franca. Hindi is the common use language of northern India, but not so much elsewhere, so English becomes a common alternative. Urdu is the common language of Pakistan, with Persian as a common alternative.

Malaysia has a similar modern language conundrum. Malay and Mandarin seem to be the predominate languages used.

Those are all gross over-simplifications of how languages can sometimes create more divisiveness than communications; but I find it interesting that a common thread is an "outside" language becomes the Lingua Franca.

ramones1986 · Aug 2, 2015

Chavacano, preferably the Ermita variant

Namayan · Aug 2, 2015

Joseph Solis in Australia said:
He was Waray to be exact. The convention was dominated by the monolithic Tagalog group while the Visayan group were divided because of earlier factionalism between Osmeña and Quezon.

Quezon ain't even a Tagalog native speaker. He is an insulares.

In out of the 7 of those from national language insititute, how many do you think are tagalogs?
1. How many visayans, 3.

All this talk of mistake is bitterness and jealousy.

99% is quite too high. If you refer to Tagalog, you may be right because it is more universal than English as far as the Philippines is concerned.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/philippines-outsourcing-ambition-spurs-english-proficiency/

Self rated polls are bad to know the exact details. It is no different from self rated poverty. People who are not in poverty can claim they are in poverty. Just claim binary, pacquiao or wrap can claim they are poor and will be placed in the poor stat. Just like people who can read and/ or write English can say they don't know English.

The Forty-Eighth Rōnin · Aug 2, 2015

Spanish.

A lot of Filipino nationalists wrote in this language not just as a demonstration of enlightenment to the Spanish, but to also promote it as a unifying language of the archipelago.

Joseph Solis in Australia · Aug 2, 2015

Namayan said:
Quezon ain't even a Tagalog native speaker. He is an insulares.

In out of the 7 of those from national language insititute, how many do you think are tagalogs?
1. How many visayans, 3.

All this talk of mistake is bitterness and jealousy.

Visayans were not monolithic group while Tagalog may be only one but they have more supporters in the national language institute. It is not about bitterness but fairness that never happened that time. Quezon may be insulares but being from Tagalog region, he was more sympathetic with Tagalog too.

Self rated polls are bad to know the exact details. It is no different from self rated poverty. People who are not in poverty can claim they are in poverty. Just claim binary, pacquiao or wrap can claim they are poor and will be placed in the poor stat. Just like people who can read and/ or write English can say they don't know English.

These are more scientific and more realistic to get a data than census one which is costly to conduct.

Joseph Solis in Australia · Aug 2, 2015

Captain Orange said:
Spanish.

A lot of Filipino nationalists wrote in this language not just as a demonstration of enlightenment to the Spanish, but to also promote it as a unifying language of the archipelago.

Spanish could have been but Americans came and delegates of 1934 Constitutional Convention choose Tagalog as the basis of the national language. As I said above, if I were the president of the language committee of the Constitutional Convention, I would choose Spanish.

Joseph Solis in Australia · Aug 2, 2015

ramones1986 said:
Chavacano, preferably the Ermita variant

If Ermita variant had much written documents, it could have survived WWII.

DumbersTC · Aug 2, 2015

ramones1986 said:
Chavacano, preferably the Ermita variant

I agree with you, and Spanish could serve as a second language as well similar to English we have in OTL.

ramones1986 · Aug 2, 2015

Joseph Solis in Australia said:
If Ermita variant had much written documents, it could have survived WWII.

Well, Ermiteño variant could survive if the well-known writers of the era, particularly Manileños, started to wrote original poems, essays and novels in the said creole, aside from transcribing folkloric poems and songs. Besides, they would probably used Spanish-derived orthography.

DumbersTC said:
I agree with you, and Spanish could serve as a second language as well similar to English we have in OTL.

It actually happened in my timeline.

Nightingale · Aug 2, 2015

English. Here in the Philippines, we can really talk to almost every foreigner with English. We can even talk "barok" (or incomplete) English with the ever native-speaking Japanese, because, from our experience, surprisingly, the Japanese understand "barok" English more than complete English.

kasumigenx · Aug 2, 2015

Regarding Tagalog, I think the Luzon should never be a part of the Philippines in the first place, I want the people of Luzon learn both Ilocano and Tagalog , I think the people of Luzon DESERVE to be INDEPENDENT after being occupied by Bruneians and sold to slavery to the Spanish,.

Regarding Tagalog it WAS the Idea of Bonifacio, if we don't want Tagalog we should have a separate revolution before or during Katipunan in Visayas, there was a separate rebellion in Mindanao as I remember.

The first Ph republic before Aguinaldo was called as Dakilang Bayan ng Katagalugan, there was an attempt to make a mix between tagalog and visayan as the nat'l language which is filipino it ended up predominantly tagalog.

mlp · Aug 2, 2015

Hokkien, because yes.

Tom Colton · Aug 2, 2015

zeppelinair said:
Hokkien, because yes.

Bahasa.

MAPHILINDO STRONK AND CAN INTO EXIST