Japan and Phillipines Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in 2013

I read in this article:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

That a majority of Japanese and Filipino people support homosexuality. So what would have happened if both countries had allowed gender equal marriages in 2013? How would the world react?

I also have a question. If homosexuality is supported in both countries why hasn't same-sex marriage been legalized?

I don't know about Japan but Philippines is just too conservative and Catholic Church is too strong that it could legalise LGBT marriages.

But even if both nation would have legalised that it hardly has much matter for world. Only just two countries more where homosexuals can marry.

Filipino

Actually Filipinos have a 73% acceptance of Homosexuality in 2012, making them more tolerant than America, Argentina or Brazil, three countries where same-sex marriage is legal.

Lalli said:

I don't know about Japan but Philippines is just too conservative and Catholic Church is too strong that it could legalise LGBT marriages.

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Like Spain and Ireland? Other staunchly Catholic countries have legalised same-sex marriage, so it's hardly implausible for the Philippines to follow suit.

AFAIK, Japan's kind of a mixed bag in terms of LGBT issues. There's no violent homophobia or religious-based discrimination, but there is more subtle discrimination (gay people aren't really taken seriously, plus far fewer people would feel comfortable coming out to their families than in the West).

This is based on what my Japanese friends have told me, anyway... Point is, not entirely sure how successful such legislation would have been in 2013. Maybe in a few years, who knows.

EcoBOOM said:

What you're saying is true. Here in the Philippines, everyone that's anti-homosexuality and LGBT stuff like their so-called marriage is ostracized

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And for good reason, may I add.

Sorry I skipped your post the first time around, old boy, the font you chose is a bit of an eyesore.

EcoBOOM said:

What you're saying is true. Here in the Philippines, everyone that's anti-homosexuality and LGBT stuff like their so-called marriage is ostracized,

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But now that bit has me raising an eyebrow. "So-called" marriage?

MrP said:

Sorry I skipped your post the first time around, old boy, the font you chose is a bit of an eyesore.

But now that bit has me raising an eyebrow. "So-called" marriage?

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Perhaps he's talking about the civil unions they have in place now?

In the Philippines, LGBT tolerance does not mean affirmation with same sex marriage because the country is still predominantly Catholic. You need first to have a higher economic growth in the 1950s and 1960s to get a more secular Philippines.

The Poarter said:

I read in this article:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

That a majority of Japanese and Filipino people support homosexuality. So what would have happened if both countries had allowed gender equal marriages in 2013? How would the world react?

I also have a question. If homosexuality is supported in both countries why hasn't same-sex marriage been legalized?

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"Acceptance of homosexuality" doesn't necessarily mean acceptance of same-sex marriage.

It can just mean a majority of the population is okay with homosexuality not being a criminal offence like it used to be in most countries.

Joseph Solis in Australia said:

In the Philippines, LGBT tolerance does not mean affirmation with same sex marriage because the country is still predominantly Catholic.

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As opposed to Ireland, the first country to legalize gay marriage by referendum? Such a predominantly Protest country, the Republic is... Oh. Right.

Dathi THorfinnsson said:

As opposed to Ireland, the first country to legalize gay marriage by referendum? Such a predominantly Protest country, the Republic is... Oh. Right.

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True, and I'm damn proud of my country for legalising gay marriage by popular vote.

On the other hand, people in the Philippines take the Catholic faith far more seriously than the majority in Ireland do. OK, I'm officially Church of Ireland, but most of my friends would be 'Catholic'...and neither they nor the older members of their families would pay any real attention to the Church. Whereas in the Philippines, the clergy still have far more clout...

You can't always posit a direct connection between social/religious attitudes and government policy.

Back during the Chretien years, the prosecutors in Vancouver announced they'd no longer be prosecuting people for small amounts of weed, the federal government legalized medical pot, and Chretien himself threw in a soundbite about how he might smoke a joint if it was ever legalized.

MEDIA SPIN: Canada is WAY more liberal on pot than those puritianical Yanks.

REALITY: It's 2015, and Canada still hasn't legalized recreational pot, whereas four states in the US have voted to do so. Even though Americans probably are, in general, more hyped up about the drug-war than Canucks.

In regards to same-sex marriage, there could be any number of factors preventing more liberal social attitudes from being realized at the political level. Just as an example, if the matter is put to a ballot, attached to a general election, and for whatever reason there is low-turnout among liberals(eg. maybe it's exam time, and liberal college kids are all studying), then that could shift the electoral weight over to the conservatives.

Not saying any of this applies to Japan or the Philipines, countries about which I know very little. Just that you can't always extrapolate from social attitudes toward politics.

theg*ddam*hoi2fan said:

AFAIK, Japan's kind of a mixed bag in terms of LGBT issues. There's no violent homophobia or religious-based discrimination, but there is more subtle discrimination (gay people aren't really taken seriously, plus far fewer people would feel comfortable coming out to their families than in the West).

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Similar to here in Korea. Homosexuality has never been illegal, and politicians, even right-wingers, don't generally make demonizing gays part of their repertoire. Plus, there are gay bars, nightclubs etc.

But when I've asked Koreans if they personally know a gay person, the answer is almost always no, even though I know for a fact that some of them do. Whereas back in Canada, where homosexuality was illegal within the lifetime of many of its citizens, I think most people, at least in a large city, would acknowledge knowing gay people.

(Recently, there was some political demonization of gays, as an anti-discrimination law in Seoul was rescinded because of opposition from traditionalists, mostly fundamentalist Christians. Not that I advocate the closet as a good social strategy, though I suppose it stands to reason that, if gays remain invisible to the general public, people who would be inclined to dislike them have nothing to prompt their bigotry.

The Poarter said:

I read in this article:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

That a majority of Japanese and Filipino people support homosexuality. So what would have happened if both countries had allowed gender equal marriages in 2013? How would the world react?

I also have a question. If homosexuality is supported in both countries why hasn't same-sex marriage been legalized?

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You'd basically have to somehow butterfly away all of modern Filipino history.

Also, what the polls won't tell you is that the Filipino approach to homosexuality is different from much of Europe or the United States. Basically the attitude seems to be that homosexuality is a sin, but no worse or better than, say, adultery (which BTW is illegal in the Philippines, complete with long jail sentence, and it's been (sporadically) enforced recently). But that doesn't mean you condone the behavior, or you grant it legal approval. So basically, there is a general attitude that homosexuality exists, and that it should be legal (again, unlike adultery or divorce for non-Muslims), but SSM or even civil unions in my experience (somewhat recent visits to the old country) are seen as something weird foreigners do. There are some people who talk in favor of SSM, but they are a small minority.

Another factor is that there are two kinds of 'marriage'. For religious context, two people getting married means they go to church where in an ornate ceremony the priest/minister/bonze/immam proclaims them united in the eyes of the parish and whatever deity is in charge. Then there is being married in a legal context which means being considered a mutually exclusive couple and subject to the laws and entitled to the benefits the law has specially formulated for such couples.

While in many countries the majority of people believes that same-sex couples should have the same legal rights as other couples, there are almost no religions that would 'unite in holy matrimony' a same sex couple. Unfortunately we are stuck with the same word for religious and legal unions and hence many churches see 'gay marriages' as an attack on their believes and vice versa many secular people see the churches reactions as homophobia or even as a blatant hypocritic twisting of the churches' core beliefs.

Many countries in continental Europe have a bit less difficulty with this issue because their laws are based on the Napoleonic Code, which for legal purposes requires people to be married by law. So most Christian couples there get married twice. Once in city hall to get the legal married status and then again in church to be 'wedded' in the eyes of parish, family and God. Of course, non-religious couples can skip this last part and still be lawfully married. Therefore there is not that much resistance from the churches against same-sex couples getting the same rights. Their beef tends to be more with those couples addressing the parish, and pretending to be 'married'.

I don't know about the situation in the Philippines as to how far society accepts homosexual couples and what legal rights it would grant them even if the Catholic church would not and I know even less about how Buddhism / Shintoism stands towards same sex couples in Japan, but uncoupling legal marriage from religious one is one aspect to view the whole discussion.

overoceans said:

Similar to here in Korea. Homosexuality has never been illegal, and politicians, even right-wingers, don't generally make demonizing gays part of their repertoire. Plus, there are gay bars, nightclubs etc.

But when I've asked Koreans if they personally know a gay person, the answer is almost always no, even though I know for a fact that some of them do. Whereas back in Canada, where homosexuality was illegal within the lifetime of many of its citizens, I think most people, at least in a large city, would acknowledge knowing gay people.

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That's exactly what I heard from a Japanese friend of mine - only gay people she knew in Japan were television comedians, and a lesbian politician. No-one she'd met in her day-to-day life.

overoceans said:

(Recently, there was some political demonization of gays, as an anti-discrimination law in Seoul was rescinded because of opposition from traditionalists, mostly fundamentalist Christians. Not that I advocate the closet as a good social strategy, though I suppose it stands to reason that, if gays remain invisible to the general public, people who would be inclined to dislike them have nothing to prompt their bigotry.

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From what I've read, the fundamentalist Christian population in Korea makes life difficult for Korean Buddhists, too...

ennobee said:

I don't know about the situation in the Philippines as to how far society accepts homosexual couples and what legal rights it would grant them even if the Catholic church would not and I know even less about how Buddhism / Shintoism stands towards same sex couples in Japan, but uncoupling legal marriage from religious one is one aspect to view the whole discussion.

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Buddhism in Japan has a history of openly Gay or Bisexual members.
Genshin criticized the practice, though.

They have the idea of Nanshoku which a homosexual relationship between a man, usually the priest, monk, or abbot, with a young (usually prepubescent) monk.
This is obviously not practiced anymore.

Keep in mind this was back in the 1600s.

I have no idea how modern Japanese Buddhism deals with it.

As for Shintoism, to my knowledge there's nothing banning it, and there is artwork presenting homosexual relations between the Shinto gods.

theg*ddam*hoi2fan said:

That's exactly what I heard from a Japanese friend of mine - only gay people she knew in Japan were television comedians, and a lesbian politician. No-one she'd met in her day-to-day life.



From what I've read, the fundamentalist Christian population in Korea makes life difficult for Korean Buddhists, too...

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Yep.

Now, granted, compared to Europe and North America historically, Korea is relatively free of religious strife: you don't have Christians and Buddhists mowing each other down in the streets. But yeah, for a while, there was a lot of sectarian vandalism and arson directed by fundamentalist Christians against Buddhists. Decapitated statues, temple burnings, etc. They also went after Tangun, the legendary god-founder of Korea, though very few Koreans actually worship him anymore.

Buddhists were also crapped on more systemically by the Confucian elites, following the ascendancy of the Chousn Dynasty in the 14th Century. Monks were exiled from the cities to the countryside, etc.