Mexcio or Canada: Which is more likely to be completely annexed to America?

Which nation is more likely to be taken over in it's entirety by the USA: Canada or Mexico? If you ask me probably MExico, because America only had two good shots of taking Canada (The Revolution and the War of 1812) and even those were longshots, while Mexico could just be taken chunk by chunk with the right people in charge of both countries.
Anyway, speculation begins now.

Canada. Not full of Metizos white Americans would consider not needed, which helped kill the actual 'All of Mexico' movement in OTL.

I personally think Canada is plausible and not TOO bad a shot to have join the ARW if you play your cards right. Remember that Nova Scotia got pretty pissy over the Milita Act, and Quebec had enough what-ifs that depend on luck...

They would annex Canada and have the folks there on equal terms of citizenship buuuuut if they went Mexico and Quebec then they would be treated as second class citizens for the most part and blame them for all their problems 'Those Damn Papists BlahBlah Yadda Bigot Bigot Rar snarl!*

Tomb said:

They would annex Canada and have the folks there on equal terms of citizenship buuuuut if they went Mexico and Quebec then they would be treated as second class citizens for the most part and blame them for all their problems 'Those Damn Papists BlahBlah Yadda Bigot Bigot Rar snarl!*

Click to expand...

......

What?

Tomb said:

They would annex Canada and have the folks there on equal terms of citizenship buuuuut if they went Mexico and Quebec then they would be treated as second class citizens for the most part and blame them for all their problems 'Those Damn Papists BlahBlah Yadda Bigot Bigot Rar snarl!*

Click to expand...

True.

But Mexico's population is much larger thus much of a problem.

If Quebec (alongside all of Canada) is annexed dissension from the population would be minimal compared to Mexicans and their treatment as second class citizens would probably end sooner.

If the US annexes all of Mexico (I will assume it is around the time of the Mexican-American War) then suddenly half of its population is non-English speaking, non-white and Catholic. Not to mention staunchly anti-slavery, much poorer, (some much richer), very ethnically diverse, and the list would go on and on. Neither side Americans, and ex-Mexicans would like the other group that much either.

A funny thing is you could have a Lincoln/Juarez (similar ideas and they could both push for preserving the "union" at all costs plus equal rights) ticket for the white house. The height differences would be quite comical.

Canada. The U.S. never seriously wanted all of Mexico.

Presumably, we all can agree that annexing Canada or Mexico would be a terrible idea? I've never spoken to a Canadian or Mexican who thought his country should become a part of us, but there are a few of my countrymen, here and there, who say they might favor such an anschluss. I think they probably haven't thought it out.

jycee said:

True.

But Mexico's population is much larger thus much of a problem.

If Quebec (alongside all of Canada) is annexed dissension from the population would be minimal compared to Mexicans and their treatment as second class citizens would probably end sooner.

If the US annexes all of Mexico (I will assume it is around the time of the Mexican-American War) then suddenly half of its population is non-English speaking, non-white and Catholic. Not to mention staunchly anti-slavery, much poorer, (some much richer), very ethnically diverse, and the list would go on and on. Neither side Americans, and ex-Mexicans would like the other group that much either.

A funny thing is you could have a Lincoln/Juarez (similar ideas and they could both push for preserving the "union" at all costs plus equal rights) ticket for the white house. The height differences would be quite comical.

Click to expand...

I thought Mexico had a population of 7 million compared to the United States 21 million or whatever.

When it comes to gradual Annexation, I can see Canada eventually joining the US. It will happen slowly with both nations having to have more and more similar policies and bigger trade agreements. It would take a long time however.

Mexico I can see being very suddenly annexed. Maybe a major civil war would bleed over into the USA and America might outright Annex certain areas or outright invade if nuclear weapons were used against the USA.

Canada.

Both wealthy countries , allies , for the most part both speak the same language.

If Mexico was to experience some form of civil war then yeah the US might get involved and maybe control parts of the country , however with the rate of migration give it a few decades and there might be more Mexicans in the US than in Mexico anyway....

I think Mexico would get be the more likely to get annexed in my opinion. But both countries do have a chance, both countries armed forces are not nearly large enough or as well trained as the United States'.

Hawkeye said:

I thought Mexico had a population of 7 million compared to the United States 21 million or whatever.

Click to expand...

Yes, but it's heavily concentrated into a local area and with a long history and culture of its own completely separate from the Anglo-American.

Canada, of course. They, like us, are essentially British culturally and linguistically. It would not have been troublesome if they had become a part of us in the early 1800's. After all, a rose by any other name smells just as sweet, and bouquet is even better.

Quebec, full of Francophone Catholics, might cause a popular stir; but any issue would resolve itself as swiftly as the annexation of Louisiana.

Hapsburg said:

Quebec, full of Francophone Catholics, might cause a popular stir; but any issue would resolve itself as swiftly as the annexation of Louisiana.

Click to expand...

Moreover, the Founding Fathers actively pressured Quebec to join the ARW, so bigot anti-Catholic prejudice was minimal amongst them.

I'm sure that in modern times the Mexicans would be glad to have their living standards go up, even if still lower than the US average, while Canadians would be very upset with the new health care and education, and Quebec would definitly be more upset.

Canada due to the smaller population, closer cultural ties (British foundations, (mostly) english speaking and protestant and the fact that in OTL there were actually a couple of instances in which, had things broken a bit differently: better handling of captured Montreal and successful capture of Quebec in 1775 could have brought them into the revolution or in 1812, a less "cakewalk" attitude about the prospects of victory there, a liberation/unification mindset rather than a conquest mindset going in coupled with a military that was better prepared and better organized could have produced just such a union.

It wouldn't have been easy, specifically absorbing the large catholic, francophone population of "Lower Canada", but not impossible and far more plausible than absorbing a relatively large, spanish speaking, catholic country whose majority population is also non-white.

I think the francophone population of Canada could have been assimilated far more smoothly (albeit not totally without difficulty or tensions) than Mexico ever could have been. I think an attempt to absorb the whole of Mexico, while it could have been done, could simply not be done without a great deal difficulty and more than a little tragedy in the process.

Therefore, for the purposes of this hypthetical, I'll go with Canada.

Sigma7 said:

Canada due to the smaller population, closer cultural ties (British foundations, (mostly) english speaking and protestant and the fact that in OTL there were actually a couple of instances in which, had things broken a bit differently: better handling of captured Montreal and successful capture of Quebec in 1775 could have brought them into the revolution or in 1812, a less "cakewalk" attitude about the prospects of victory there, a liberation/unification mindset rather than a conquest mindset going in coupled with a military that was better prepared and better organized could have produced just such a union.

Click to expand...

Pretty much all of Quebec (Upper and Lower Canada) was Francophone and Catholic before the American Revolution. But then there was a massive influx of Loyalist settlers in Upper Canada, most of whom were English-speaking Protestants. In a TL where Quebec becomes part of the United States in 1775, those Loyalists would go elsewhere and the population would remain a majority of French Catholics.

As mentioned, in the past probably Canada, less population, easier strategically, at least in the 19th century.

In the future neither really.

rcduggan said:

Pretty much all of Quebec (Upper and Lower Canada) was Francophone and Catholic before the American Revolution. But then there was a massive influx of Loyalist settlers in Upper Canada, most of whom were English-speaking Protestants. In a TL where Quebec becomes part of the United States in 1775, those Loyalists would go elsewhere and the population would remain a majority of French Catholics.

Click to expand...

On the other hand, Quebec had a sizable French-Catholic population in 1775, wholly comparable to some of the 13 colonies, while Upper Canada was very little populated before the influx of the Loyalists. If Canada goes to America in 1783, Lower Canada becomes one of the original states with Nova Scotia, and stays French-Catholic, while Upper Canada becomes a territory and in a few years is swamped with English-speaking settlers that very soon turn it as thoroughly Anglo a state as Ohio or Indiana. Little chance Ontario can become French-Catholic ITTL. Immigration shall cast it in the mold of the rest of the MidWest. French-Catholics shall have enough trouble and serious calls on their fecundity to keep Lower Canada in their image despite immigration.

I tried this. The best quote:

Darkling said:

This is like asking whether I'm more likely to spontaneously grow gills or grow wings.

Click to expand...