Let's change the "stab in the back" myth a bit. Instead of blaming unnamed people Hindenburg decides that the country needs a single person to blame for the war and that will unite the country more than anything else. He picks Zimmermann as his actions were largely responsible for getting the biggest economy on the planet involved. He says something like "He and he alone is to blame for the loss of the war. It was Zimmermann who pushed through the idea of trying to align with Mexico of all countries and admitted it not once but twice in the United States thus bringing the World's largest economy against us. We knew the Russians were about the leave the war when Zimmermann stupidly admitted the existence of the telegram so again he and he alone is to blame for Germany's defeat. "
Hindenberg makes Zimmermann the scapegoat
- Thread starter Johnrankins
- Start date
David S Poepoe
Banned
I don't think it would have worked mostly because of the near total power Hindenburg and Ludendorff had over the government. Eventually, someone would probably point out that with the High Command virtually running the show the trail back to Hindenburg would be evident sooner. It would probably be a difficult issue when he stood for office.
Before that happens I think Zimmermann would have been lynched or committed suicide. If the first he has already gotten too much of the blame to dodge and in the second it would be taken by a lot of people of "proof" that he agreed. Germany was looking for a scapegoat after WWI and I think it didn't matter who or what the scapegoat was.
David S Poepoe
Banned
No, it would be safer that it be a third party that is not associated at all with the government or anybody in power.
He was already largely despised. That screw up was colossal so he was a complete idiot at best by the public already. I doubt his getting the blame would change how people felt about the former government.
Hindenberg makes Zimmermann the scapegoat
This is an attempt to make German politics better. If we handwave it, then the result, theoretically is that there's less frothing at the mouth in German public opinion that socialists and jews betrayed the country. So it's better for everybody except Zimmerman.
But then again, that makes the accusation much less useful politically. The stab in the back myth was embraced so heartily by the German right-wing precisely because they could broaden it to smear domestic political opponents who they wanted to defeat and who had opposed values for what kind of country Germany should be.
In other words, Hindenburg and the right-wing Germans wanted a broad scapegoating, and polarization, so they could get things their way.
If Hindenburg and the German right wanted to find a plausible scapegoat to avoid polarization and recrimination, they had several options to choose from besides Zimmerman. They could have blamed their Austrian allies (now conveniently collapsed) or Czarist Russia (now also collapsed) with some justice.
This is an attempt to make German politics better. If we handwave it, then the result, theoretically is that there's less frothing at the mouth in German public opinion that socialists and jews betrayed the country. So it's better for everybody except Zimmerman.
But then again, that makes the accusation much less useful politically. The stab in the back myth was embraced so heartily by the German right-wing precisely because they could broaden it to smear domestic political opponents who they wanted to defeat and who had opposed values for what kind of country Germany should be.
In other words, Hindenburg and the right-wing Germans wanted a broad scapegoating, and polarization, so they could get things their way.
If Hindenburg and the German right wanted to find a plausible scapegoat to avoid polarization and recrimination, they had several options to choose from besides Zimmerman. They could have blamed their Austrian allies (now conveniently collapsed) or Czarist Russia (now also collapsed) with some justice.
True, almost any TL that gets rid of the Nazis is a better one than ours.
All too true.
Point taken, more Austria than Czarist Russia as the latter was a declared enemy. If you want a scapegoat it is better to blame a defunct ally then a declared enemy which pretty much admits you lost fair and square.
Who do you think the German middle and upper classes will prefer to blame? A loyal servant of the Kaiser who, upon the decision for unlimited submarine warfare--which everyone knew would make war with the US inevitable--tried to embroil the US in a war with Mexico in the event of such a war? Or "traitorous" Jews and Social Democrats?
I think one only needs to state the question to answer it.
I think one only needs to state the question to answer it.
In this version, the defeat is ascribed to the material power of the U.S. coming in against Germany. That doesn't work.
It requires Germans to admit frankly that they were beaten in battle. The whole point of the dolchstoss legend was to pretend that no physical defeat of the German army ever happened.
I imagine the blame might be amplified too much. After all, Bismark traded a near total-lack of any German claims to Zanzibar to Britain in exchange for Heligoland and the Caprivi Strip before blaming Foreign Minister Caprivi, who hadn't even been minister yet. I hardly see someone like Hindenburg being any more moral. He might even go for claiming Zimmerman was responsible for all the German plans to invade the US or their funding of rebels and government alike in Mexico, training them to attack across the border, and the invasion plans for the southern Carribean. Might reveal to the Americans a few of the German plans though, or give proof positive that the Black Tom explosion was deliberate and funded by the German government.