Fate of Joseph Stalin if He Was Expelled from the Bolshevik Party

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
IOTL, the Bolsheviks had a chance of expelling Stalin from their movement as a result of Lenin's Last Will being read out in a meeting and that he anointed Trotsky as the next leader of the Bolshevik party. Now suppose that Stalin was expelled as Lenin requested under his will, what will his post-Bolshevik fate be like? Moreover, what would be the fate of people who were loyal to Stalin be like?
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
The Soviet Union might end up loosing WW2. Say what you will about Stalin but his forced industrialization was the major factor that saved the Soviets during the war IMO.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
Admiral Halsey said:
The Soviet Union might end up loosing WW2. Say what you will about Stalin but his forced industrialization was the major factor that saved the Soviets during the war IMO.
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That is what I thought. But could there have been a "Stalinist" who isn't Stalin himself that could have saved the USSR?
 

Flocculencio

Donor
We're talking about the same Stalin who gutted the Red Army in the Great Purge, right?

I'm not sure why the USSR couldn't have industrialised under someone else- was Stalin some kind of magical industrialist?

Someone else might well have been able to industrialise without purging everyone competent in the 30s.
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
Flocculencio said:
We're talking about the same Stalin who gutted the Red Army in the Great Purge, right?

I'm not sure why the USSR couldn't have industrialised under someone else- was Stalin some kind of magical industrialist?

Someone else might well have been able to industrialise without purging everyone competent in the 30s.
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They may be able to industrialize some but it not nearly as much as OTL. Stalin was determined to turn the country from a backwards agricultural nation to a modern industrial one damn the cost!
 
Daniwani

Daniwani

The "If only *blank* Hitler would have won his impossible war" answers are really overdone for sure. No matter who took charge, Russia would industrialize. Would it be as gung ho? probably not, would it still have flaws? It's the bloody USSR coming out of its civil war. ALL Soviet leaders, including Trotsky, planned to Industrialize Russia at the expense of the peasants.

The question however was the fate of Stalin, right? Now, Stalin WAS, believe it or not, a man who believed in the Communist Ideology, even if he was indeed a dictator before all else; but its hard to say whether or not he'd try to jump ship and end up selling information to the west, isn't it?
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
Daniwani said:
The "If only *blank* Hitler would have won his impossible war" answers are really overdone for sure.
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It's not impossible for him to have at least beaten Russia. Have Stalin keep his word about staying in Moscow no matter what which means a lot of the Soviet higher-up would stay as well and have Army Group Centre do better enough to capture the city even if it's only for a couple of days and boom Hitler wins.
 

MarshalBraginsky

Banned
Flocculencio said:
We're talking about the same Stalin who gutted the Red Army in the Great Purge, right?

I'm not sure why the USSR couldn't have industrialised under someone else- was Stalin some kind of magical industrialist?

Someone else might well have been able to industrialise without purging everyone competent in the 30s.
Click to expand...

In another thread, someone asked if there was a Trotskyist (not Trotsky necessarily) who could have taken over the USSR, and the answer came up as Ivan Smirnov.

Now Beria is seen as the possible "Stalinist-lite" candidate to lead the USSR, but he might also be expelled along with Stalin.

Admiral Halsey said:
They may be able to industrialize some but it not nearly as much as OTL. Stalin was determined to turn the country from a backwards agricultural nation to a modern industrial one damn the cost!
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Bukharin would seem to be a natural candidate to reform the USSR, though he wouldn't be as brutal as both Trotsky and Stalin. He also had popular support among the rural population (as my history teacher mentioned in college, Stalin's collectivization policies had several motives, of which the most prominent were to weaken Bukharin politically and to destroy Ukrainian nationalism, of which the Holodomor was the result).

Barring that, the Soviet experiment was doomed to fail because its leaders had several character flaws and flawed policies.
 

Julian

Stalin conducted industrialization in the most inefficient, costly manner possible. He alienated 60% of the population (The peasantry) and left the urbanites in a constant state of deprivation. The 5 Year Plans consistently failed to meet expectations - command economy simply didn't work. Continuing the NEP with the addition of capital investment into industry would have been enough to stimulate significant growth without OTL's problems which offset the rapid gains of forced industrialization.
 

Van555

Julian said:
Stalin conducted industrialization in the most inefficient, costly manner possible. He alienated 60% of the population (The peasantry) and left the urbanites in a constant state of deprivation. The 5 Year Plans consistently failed to meet expectations - command economy simply didn't work. Continuing the NEP with the addition of capital investment into industry would have been enough to stimulate significant growth without OTL's problems which offset the rapid gains of forced industrialization.
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And cooperatives everyone forgets about them...
 

ObssesedNuker

Admiral Halsey said:
Stalin was determined to turn the country from a backwards agricultural nation to a modern industrial one damn the cost!
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As was every other senior member of the communist party.
Seriously, rapid industrialization ASAP was absolutely not a debate among the Bolshevik party's leadership. The only debate was how.
 

KACKO

Admiral Halsey said:
The Soviet Union might end up loosing WW2. Say what you will about Stalin but his forced industrialization was the major factor that saved the Soviets during the war IMO.
Click to expand...

Well on other side they may have leader which would opt for allience with west in 1939. Someven if Poland is attacked by Germany Germans may face two front war since 1939. Add to it n shipments of raw materials from USSR and on other side same early form of Land and Lease from GB, France and maybe even US for USSR. Not just arms but also technologies to improve their industry. Plus maybe not purges and more competent Red Army from start. ;)
 

Johnrankins

Russia was already industrializing and quickly before the war. There is no reason to believe that no one else could have done it. Russia was going to industrialize quickly no matter who was in charge.
 

ChaosNDiscord

I see a bunch of Stalin saved Russia because answers but, if stalin never comes to power who's to stay Nazi Germany even has the chance to do Barbarossa. a different Soviet leader may not join a pact to divvy Poland. Maybe when germany attacks they turn on Germany while France attacks in the west? The whole political dynamic of europe changes w/o stalin.
 
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