ITTL (likely localized) semidomestication of elk?

Thesaurus Rex

Thesaurus Rex

(This is the right subforum to put this in, right? All the others didn't seem fitting for this thread.)

Out of boredom a long time ago I googled a bunch of non-standard animals to see if they were farmed, like bison, moose, ostrich, and elk. As it turns out, elk are pretty readily domesticatable and widely farmed in pastures and paddocks already, some farms boasting that they're a superior pasture animal than cattle and sheep.

What's really bugged me though was that one elk farming website slapped in a dubious, unsourced claim that "legends suggest American Indians domesticated wapiti like horses". Didn't really pay much attention to it 'cause it seemed like one of those crazy things people bring up.

But today, I decided to look into it further and through Google was able to find a bunch of magazines/newspapers dating back to the 19th century, all more or less of similar wording (Hooray for plagiarism!). One simply seems to describe the elk in an encyclopedic sense, the rest appear to talk about their arrival in the King's Mews in England. The biological information is...wrong, but they all mentioned that a Native American tribe, group or culture (they didn't specify, typical) would use elk as a harness animal and in the wintertime use them to pull sledges.

Here's the earliest document I could find, Philosophical Magazine, Volume 48 - 1816
They are in their nature very timid, and at the same time of such power and activity when grown, that it is not possible to take them out of the forest alive; but some remote tribes of Indians having discovered that they were susceptible of domestication, and of being trained to draw their sledges in winter over the snow and ice, took them when fawns in nets, and brought them up in their houses with great care and kindness, thus depriving them of their wild habits, and making them at last of great value and importance for their services in harness.
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The Literary Panorama and National Register, Volume 5 - 1817

*paragraph is the same as above quote*

The Scots Magazine and Edinburgh Literary Miscellany, Volume 79 - 1817
They describe them as being naturally very timid animals, and at the same time of such power and activity when full grown, that it is not possible to take them out of the forest alive. It is affirmed, that some of the remote tribes of Indians, having found that they were capable of being trained to draw their sledges in winter over the snow, are in the practice of taking them when young, and bringing them up in their huts with great care and kindness, thus reclaiming them from their wild habits, and rendering them highly serviceable in harness.
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A Statistical, Political, and Historical account of the United States of North America by D.B Warden - 1819
When taken full grown, in their natural state, it is impossible to tame them; but when young, they are easily domesticated. The Indians take them by means of a net, and, in the more northern parts, train them to the sledge.
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All of these point to an unnamed (whyyyy) German naturalist, who according to D.B Warden's paper sent the information about the elk in a handbill. There's quite a lot of German naturalists out there so I can't quite narrow it down so far. If I just had his name...maybe I could find a journal he wrote and dig deeper into this.

So what's the deal here? Did they all take from the same handbill? Did they gradually plagiarize on each other? Surely there's more to this, as I'm not so sure elkusa.com knew about these papers when they mentioned a "legend". Has anybody heard of these before? Care to help me out here? I'd really like to investigate this further. I just hope this German naturalist guy doesn't turn out to be bullcrap.

Man, why can't people learn to cite their sources?
 

ComradeHuxley

Donor
As you mentioned the existance of a German naturalist, I tried finding German sources. Unfortunatly they were not as helpful as I thought.

(1) The Austrian Newspaper "Der Österreichische Beobachter" wrote an article on the subject on April 1817 but only gave the same information you mentioned in your post here. The only "lead" it gave me was the mentioning of a certeain Dr. Leach and a presentation he held about the subject of Wapiti.

(2) This document from 1819 was the result of my search. An article on Wapiti by Dr. William Elford Leach "Abhandlungen aus andern, vorzüglich fremden Zeitschriften". It has no useful information about domestication efforts however that you don't already have. He is himself citing Tiloch and the Phil. Magazine 1816 here. He also mentions Dr. Samuel Latham Mitchell, and Dr. Benjamin Barton Smith so you might check anything in relation to them.

On the plus side, if unrelated from anything German, I apparently found the omnious bill:

By permission. Sketch for a natural history of the four animals now exhibiting in the King’s Mews, on the West Side, near the Charing Cross Gate, being an extraordinary species of new and non-descript deer, lately arrived from N. America. C. Handy printer 23, Whitcomb Street, Leicester Square. June 17th, 1817. Handbill. Large 4to (22 x 28cm)
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........for the cheap price of £450 here ;)
 
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phildup

Paper that compares the concept of domestication as seen through European vs Native American eyes.

http://www.academia.edu/5618069/_Th...d_Domestication_in_the_New_France_Borderlands

This difference in the philosophy of domestication vs imprisonment and the way in which Native Americans related with the natural world and its creatures may explain part of the reason there was a dearth of domesticated animals in NA.

Considering that the Siberians, I don't know which specific group, were supposed to have domesticated Elk and the Sami, among others, who herd semi domesticated reindeer, I don't think it was impossible, just improbable.

Native Americans I think probably viewed cattle, hogs and horses differently, since they were introduced species and there was already the example of European domestication of these beasts. Elk was a part of their natural world and occupied a unique place in the order of things.
 
Thesaurus Rex

Thesaurus Rex

ComradeHuxley said:
(1) The Austrian Newspaper "Der Österreichische Beobachter" wrote an article on the subject on April 1817 but only gave the same information you mentioned in your post here. The only "lead" it gave me was the mentioning of a certeain Dr. Leach and a presentation he held about the subject of Wapiti.
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Darn, if only I could learn German a bit faster so I could read this :p. At least we seem to be getting somewhere. They do seem to be getting the information from the same handbill.

ComradeHuxley said:
(2) This document from 1819 was the result of my search. An article on Wapiti by Dr. William Elford Leach "Abhandlungen aus andern, vorzüglich fremden Zeitschriften". It has no useful information about domestication efforts however that you don't already have. He is himself citing Tiloch and the Phil. Magazine 1816 here. He also mentions Dr. Samuel Latham Mitchell, and Dr. Benjamin Barton Smith so you might check anything in relation to them.
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Benjamin Smith Barton and Samuel Mitchell seem to be American naturalists, but I might see if they have any connection anyway. William Elford Leach, a British naturalist. A Google search doesn't pick up anything, it seems, though I did get a short description (and poem) from Barton.

...

Hold the phone here.

I found it. I found *IT*.

The source of information all those newspapers, magazines and the handbill (which I found a slightly bigger picture of! The title says 1817, though, so obviously it must not be the handbill we're looking for. Besides, it's not in German, which you'd think it would be if it came from the naturalist...).

In the journal of esteemed aforementioned American naturalist Benjamin Smith Barton, where he first describes the wapiti. It's from all the way back to 1804, and his descriptions are much more scientifically informed than everything else we've linked so far.

The Philadelphia Medical and Physical Journal, Volume 1

Dr. Benjamin Smith Barton said:
The Elk might be rendered a very useful animal. When he is taken young, he is easily tamed, becoming an inoffensive and easily manageable creature. It is said, these animals have been used in sleighs, like the rein-deer, in some parts of Upper-Canada. I cannot learn, that our Indians have ever domesticated any of them. There is, however, a circumstance mentioned by Adair, which would, at least, lead one to suppose that the Indians, in some parts of America, have actually seen the Elk in a domesticated state. Some of the southern tribes call this animal Hissooba, which signifies "the horse that carries a burthen." This, as Adair observes, suggests the idea, "that they formerly saw Elks carry burthens*." Perhaps, the Indians may have seen the Elk employed, as a beast of burthen, by the Spaniards, to the west of the Mississippi. If the Alcos of New-Mexico be our Elk, as I suppose it is, this suspicion is rendered more probable: for we are told, that that animal has been trained to the chariot, instead of the horse†.

*The History of the American Indians, &c p. 113. London: 1775.
†The Alcos of New-Mexico (says Clavigero) are of the size of a horse. There was a gentleman in the city of Zacatecas, who made use of them for his chariot, instead of horses, according to the testimony of Betancourt." Clavigero's History of Mexico. Vol. ii. p. 287.
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Have you ever noticed how pre-1900s people use lots of commas? :p
Gotta hate it when an esteemed scientist uses an equivocal word such as 'It is said'. That doesn't give me much to go on to trace this legend/rumor further, though it seems we've established that these fabled people inhabit somewhere between 'upper Missouri country' and 'Upper Canada'. This document is, apparently, the first proposal to refer to the elk as 'wapiti' to avoid confusion with moose, so it's a wonder that paragraph isn't talked about more often...

There's still the question of the elusive German naturalist, who for some reason either did not wish to be named or everybody involved refused to give him proper credit. I'm certain he exists -- the elk had to have gotten to the King's Mews somehow, even if the information seems to have been taken from Barton. I also am not sure that he and people that followed his expedition could/would have taken elk straight from the wild for display in England to be treated like a tame animal. From Barton's book introducing the elk account I've picked up two German surnames, Zimmermann and Gmelin. Barton wasn't thinking of us poor 21st century folks and put an &c at the end of those names. These may or may not be the right people but it's worth a shot seeing if they ever went to North America. (On another note, I wonder how hard it would be to find documents of the elk's exhibitions in New York, Philadelphia and Baltimore and go from there)

I think later today I might try to look into Adair's (James Adair?) book and investigate from there, as that seems like an interesting path to take. I need to figure out what tribe uses the word 'Hissooba'. Apparently, it's from 'a southern tribe', as in the American south (which Adair explored). That's pretty far from the upper Missouri/Canada, but it makes for an interesting connection and an extremely low possibility it isn't localized. I can imagine a river route going from the lower Mississippi to Upper Canada (which appears to be the top right-ish corner of the Great Lakes) and the Upper Missouri river, but that's an extremely crazy thought that I can't confirm without evidence (after all I'm just getting started sorting all this stuff out). As for Barton's hypothesis, I can't exactly imagine an eccentric man from the Mexican state of Zacatecas driving his elk chariot around the Mississippi River where it just so happened to be discovered by the Native Americans there and then decided to name an animal they've more than likely seen before (elk were native to almost the entire US back then) to something that says they carry burdens. Somethin's up.


Blaaaaaarrrrrh. This is fun.

phildup said:
Paper that compares the concept of domestication as seen through European vs Native American eyes.

http://www.academia.edu/5618069/_Th...d_Domestication_in_the_New_France_Borderlands

This difference in the philosophy of domestication vs imprisonment and the way in which Native Americans related with the natural world and its creatures may explain part of the reason there was a dearth of domesticated animals in NA.

Considering that the Siberians, I don't know which specific group, were supposed to have domesticated Elk and the Sami, among others, who herd semi domesticated reindeer, I don't think it was impossible, just improbable.

Native Americans I think probably viewed cattle, hogs and horses differently, since they were introduced species and there was already the example of European domestication of these beasts. Elk was a part of their natural world and occupied a unique place in the order of things.
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Yeah, I stumbled upon that too during my investigation. Very nice read. But note that Native Americans aren't all of one people and dogma, and the noble savage stereotype of the Native Americans living harmoniously with the land is in many cases very very wrong. A Delaware Indian can't speak for the people of his entire continent. A general idea of balance with the land is shared by most hunter-gatherer and basic agricultural societies, but is not always prevalent. If you'll read further into the document you'll find societies that do have philosophies that allow for private ownership of land and animals such as the Mississippian cultures, and you'll see passages about bird domestication. The Pueblo people in the American Southwest also raised turkey. And obviously, the horse was picked up with such lightning speed it radically altered Native American culture forever.

That being said I can certainly see domestic use of elk being picked up somewhere along the line. A culture just needs the right push to do it. And if these stories are true, then that'd be just super awesome.
 

MalcontentRex

Banned
It's my understanding that elk are more vulnerable to prion diseases than the other animals we've domesticated. I don't know if this has an impact at this time period but if it does, the humans trying to domesticate them are in tremendously over their heads.
 
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