AHC: McClellan Wins the Civil War

Elcheapodeca · Sep 29, 2014

Your challenge if you choose to accept it is to have McClellan win the American Civil War while commanding the Army of the Potomac.

Note: Falling off his horse and dying before he can screw things up does not count

Admiral Halsey · Sep 29, 2014

Joseph E. Johnston not getting injured during the Peninsula Campaign might be your best and only chance IMO.

Johnrankins · Sep 29, 2014

Stonewall Jackson is killed at Antietam . Hooker caves in his whole side as his troops panic. Burnside gets through as Hooker flanks the CSA and it turns into a rout. Little Mac gains enough confidence to actually go after Lee hard. He pushes on to Richmond and defeats Lee again as Lee no longer spooks him.

usertron2020 · Sep 29, 2014

Johnrankins said:
Stonewall Jackson is killed at Antietam . Hooker caves in his whole side as his troops panic. Burnside gets through as Hooker flanks the CSA and it turns into a rout. Little Mac gains enough confidence to actually go after Lee hard.

Sensing victory, he commits his reserves and smashes through to Blackmum's (sp?

) Ford in one massive blow, crushing Lee's army and leaving only the remnants of Jackson's Corps and Stuart's cavalry.

He spends October processing legions of Southron prisoners and preparing for his own march into Virginia. In November, he invades the South.

He pushes on to Richmond and defeats Lee again as Lee no longer spooks him.

Nor has Lee sufficient surviving forces to reform the AoNV against a much rallied AotP.

Richmond falls by Christmas, the war ends in 1863, and McClellan becomes the next President.

Probably washing away the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments though.

David T · Sep 30, 2014

Here is at least one author's judgment: "McClellan was the victim of poor intelligence during the Peninsula Campaign. He was using Allen Pinkerton to tell him what kind of Confederate forces he was facing. He trusted Pinkerton implicitly, but Pinkerton would just make up numbers out of thin air. Had Pinkerton given McClellan the real numbers and had McClellan believed those numbers, we might have seen a different outcome in his campaign for Richmond. It's certainly conceivable that McClellan might have decided to march all the way to Richmond in April of 1862. Had McClellan done that, the the Confederates would have been in a bad situation, similar to the situa tion the North would have been in had Washington been lost following Bull Run..." http://books.google.com/books?id=BCViBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA71

On the other hand, it has been pointed out that McClellan exaggerated the number of enemy troops even more than Pinkerton did: http://books.google.com/books?id=uwFBEY4BOj8C&pg=PA172

WXL1815 · Sep 30, 2014

David T said:
Here is at least one author's judgment: "McClellan was the victim of poor intelligence during the Peninsula Campaign. He was using Allen Pinkerton to tell him what kind of Confederate forces he was facing. He trusted Pinkerton implicitly, but Pinkerton would just make up numbers out of thin air. Had Pinkerton given McClellan the real numbers and had McClellan believed those numbers, we might have seen a different outcome in his campaign for Richmond. It's certainly conceivable that McClellan might have decided to march all the way to Richmond in April of 1862. Had McClellan done that, the the Confederates would have been in a bad situation, similar to the situa tion the North would have been in had Washington been lost following Bull Run..." http://books.google.com/books?id=BCViBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA71

On the other hand, it has been pointed out that McClellan exaggerated the number of enemy troops even more than Pinkerton did: http://books.google.com/books?id=uwFBEY4BOj8C&pg=PA172

This! Have McClellan shamed into pressing the attack on Richmond by those generals who pressed aggressively for - not least Phil Kearny (TKI should be one making this point!) who roared that McClellan was a coward and later a traitor both within McClellan's earshot.

Dathi THorfinnsson · Sep 30, 2014

Isot 67th Tigers' McClellan into otl McClellan's body?

usertron2020 · Sep 30, 2014

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
Isot 67th Tigers' McClellan into otl McClellan's body?

[size=-4]fillerfiller[/size]

Johnrankins · Sep 30, 2014

usertron2020 said:
[size=-4]fillerfiller[/size]

Just give him Tiger67th British Infantry as his soldiers and the US can conquer the world!

Elcheapodeca · Sep 30, 2014

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
Isot 67th Tigers' McClellan into otl McClellan's body?

Could someone explain the joke. This was before my time

Johnrankins · Sep 30, 2014

Elcheapodeca said:
Could someone explain the joke. This was before my time

Tiger67th somehow was under the delusion that Little Mac was the Union's best general and British Troops bounced bullets off their chests.

Elcheapodeca · Sep 30, 2014

Johnrankins said:
Tiger67th somehow was under the delusion that Little Mac was the Union's best general and British Troops bounced bullets off their chests.

Really? I could see arguing that he was mislead by poor intelligence and wasn't suited for the position he got but he clearly wasn't the Unions best general.

Admiral Halsey · Sep 30, 2014

Johnrankins said:
Tiger67th somehow was under the delusion that Little Mac was the Union's best general and British Troops bounced bullets off their chests.

MacClellan the Union's best general!? Please tell me I mis-read that.

usertron2020 · Sep 30, 2014

Johnrankins said:
67th Tigers somehow was under the delusion that Little Mac was the Union's best general and British Troops bounced bullets off their chests.

Actually, no. The British would never have to face such a test since the mere sight of their colors would have any opponent breaking and running for their lives.

Elcheapodeca said:
Really? I could see arguing that he was mislead by poor intelligence and wasn't suited for the position he got but he clearly wasn't the Unions best general.

It's actually in the AlternateHistoryWiki, under 67th Tigers' member entry, that while he is very knowledgeable about certain aspects of the American Civil War, one must never criticize George B. McClellan in his presence. While he was a member he was by very far the forum's #1 Little Mac Fan.

But even those who oft times took 67th Tigers' position in arguments usually found his adoration of Mac as being...unusual.

Everybody has a personal hero, and many will champion them on AH.com. I consider Monty to be the best general of any side in WWII, though I was a long time coming to that conclusion (Note to Slim Fan Boys: Yes, he too was outstanding but he fought in a very different war than Monty's).

Little Mac's positive contribution to the Union was creating the Army of the Potomac in the first place. Everything else after that was highly negative.

Admiral Halsey said:
MacClellan the Union's best general!? Please tell me I mis-read that.

You didn't. Little Mac was the William Frederick I of Prussia/Philip the Great of Macedonia.

Maniakes · Oct 5, 2014

Elcheapodeca said:
Really? I could see arguing that he was mislead by poor intelligence and wasn't suited for the position he got but he clearly wasn't the Unions best general.

If memory serves, 67th Tigers argued almost the reverse of that: he had dug up some numbers and quotes which according to him proved that McClellan's intelligence was actually correct and the conventional assessment wrong, and Lee actually outnumber McClellan by a significant margin at Antietam and on the Penninsula and that is was only due to McClellan's brilliant battlefield leadership that the Army of the Potomac wasn't decisively defeated.

The Gunslinger · Oct 5, 2014

usertron2020 said:
Actually, no. The British would never have to face such a test since the mere sight of their colors would have any opponent breaking and running for their lives.

I think maybe the best was when the British launched a naval raid against Sacketts Harbor. In December.

Clandango · Oct 5, 2014

Johnrankins said:
Tiger67th somehow was under the delusion that Little Mac was the Union's best general and British Troops bounced bullets off their chests.

That guy from Punch Out?

Lateknight · Oct 5, 2014

I thought McClellan really didn't want to fight the confederates and did everything possible to stall his army until a negotiated peace could be reached.

Space Oddity · Oct 5, 2014

The Gunslinger said:
I think maybe the best was when the British launched a naval raid against Sacketts Harbor. In December.

I live near Sacketts Harbor. It's still quite proud of the last time it beat back the British.

Doing it again in circumstances like that would be freakin' catnip to them.

John Fredrick Parker · Oct 5, 2014

Admiral Halsey said:
Joseph E. Johnston not getting injured during the Peninsula Campaign might be your best and only chance IMO.

This is actually a pretty solid PoD, I think; that way, Lee doesn't take command of the ANV at this critical time, and Richmond likely falls. Any thoughts here?