WI: U.S. vs U.K., WW1

How? That's for you to figure out.;) I did put it here though because I assume a pre-20th century POD is required.

Point is, what would happen if the United Kingdom and United States fought each other in a WW1 style conflict? How brutal could such a conflict get?

One of the reasons I'm interested in this POD is the possibility of the U.S. getting in a conflict where it loses in excess of 1,000,000 people, and considering the circumstances, that may very well be possible. The reason for this interest is... well, I imagine it would substantially change the United States as a country in the long run, to put things mildly. It'd also, of course, impact WW2.

Thoughts?
 

U.S David

Banned
The US would invade Canada, and take over quickly.

The British plan was to send some support, but they knew they were going to lose Canada.

The next battle would be in the Cribbean and in the Atlantic. The US will try to invade Jamica, Belize,Guiyna, Falklands, and the Bahamas.

It depends whats going on in Europe. If its WWI, then Great Britain will lose all her American Land. There is no way she can defend them while fighting Germany.



What scares me is the idea of Great Britian invading Hawii, Guam, and the Phillipnes.


But I think America would.

What do you guys think?
 
Depends on how fast the American navy can build up really. An easy way for this to happen is have German propaganda efforts and how they act during the war in regards to the US do better.
 
The US would probably overrun Canada while Britain sets up a blockade and captures some of America's remote territories.

War ends as soon as the leadership of both countries realise how pointless this war is.
 
"Strange Bedfellows" explores the US joining the central powers. But it doesn't lose that many people. Any conflict between the US and the UK before 1920 or so is going to be entirely naval, with the possible exception of land warfare in Canada. So casualties are going to be a bit lower.
 
Much deopends on "how prepared" the US is for such a conflict.

Did it stumble in - is it militaristic before?

WWI style means each side has allies - who are they?

While neither may be the original POD the conflict for Samoa and the Venezuela crisis of 1902/03 might be steps in this conflictz.

Assume Germany and Britain secretly agree on dividing Samoa between them and the US - and later Britain anfd GErmany thumnp on Venezuela despite of US support.

So instead of drifting towards France and Russia, Britain and Germany become friendly (affecting German fleet programmes i.e. scaling down while the US increases fleet expansion).

The US drifts toward France (fellow republic) and we might get a war in the early to mid 1910s. Roughly with OTLs alliances, but Britian in teh CPs camp (as is Japan) and teh US immediately aiding France.

This leaves a gap in the French OOB, but the US might be able to send support within a few weeks (we assume that the US is more war ready than OTL without being overly militaristic) THe need of US troops in Europe will prevent an early overrun of Canada (Britain and Germany sending aid enough so we get a stalemate in the US)

Belgium might be trying to stay neuitral but the Anglo GErman alliance might ignore it or even press belgium into their camp.

The Anglo German alliance might target the panama canal (just like OTL Dardanelles) and Japan might invade the Phillipines.

Troopships crossing the Atalantic will be target of both sides and high losses will be inflicted (even before the troops start to fight)
 
Much deopends on "how prepared" the US is for such a conflict.

Did it stumble in - is it militaristic before?

WWI style means each side has allies - who are they?

While neither may be the original POD the conflict for Samoa and the Venezuela crisis of 1902/03 might be steps in this conflictz.

Assume Germany and Britain secretly agree on dividing Samoa between them and the US - and later Britain anfd GErmany thumnp on Venezuela despite of US support.

So instead of drifting towards France and Russia, Britain and Germany become friendly (affecting German fleet programmes i.e. scaling down while the US increases fleet expansion).

The US drifts toward France (fellow republic) and we might get a war in the early to mid 1910s. Roughly with OTLs alliances, but Britian in teh CPs camp (as is Japan) and teh US immediately aiding France.

This leaves a gap in the French OOB, but the US might be able to send support within a few weeks (we assume that the US is more war ready than OTL without being overly militaristic) THe need of US troops in Europe will prevent an early overrun of Canada (Britain and Germany sending aid enough so we get a stalemate in the US)

Belgium might be trying to stay neuitral but the Anglo GErman alliance might ignore it or even press belgium into their camp.

The Anglo German alliance might target the panama canal (just like OTL Dardanelles) and Japan might invade the Phillipines.

Troopships crossing the Atalantic will be target of both sides and high losses will be inflicted (even before the troops start to fight)


I think that this is a more interesting scenario then the usual Germany-US alliance that is bandied about.
 
For this to happen you would need a very different buildup. A Germany that doesn't plan on competing with British Navy, a weaker France and a stronger Russia.

The British policy was to always ally with the third strongest nation in Europe, so that the second strongest could never overtake them. A stronger Russia seeking to expand into Europe would make Germany a more tempting ally, especially due to good relations, a related monarchy and no animosity because of a Germany Naval buildup. I would probably try and put France in the same positions as Pre-WW1 Russia. A large powerful nations, but strife with internal conflict and dissident. While the British have allied with the French in the past, they would probably be hesitant in France's domestic situation was less than stable.

How you get the USA involved can be done three ways. One the Venezuela Crisis goes down a bad way and leaves the USA with a bloody nose. The loss of Puerto Rico and loss of influence in Cuba. The second is the USA intervening in an earlier Russian-Sino war. The Japanese repeat their initial success, but due to Japan's alliance with the British, it is feared that Japan's success would put the USA at the risk. The USA intervene on behalf of Russia and the British intervene on the behalf of Japan. Calmer heads prevail and the USA/UK agree to end the conflict with minimal exchange of territory. Japan is annoyed by the UK and angered by the USA, while Russian relations with the USA sore ever higher. Or option number 3, a combination of the two above.

The USA and the UK need to but heads more often to lead to the sort of tension. USA allying with Russia would be seen as a definite risk to European security, while the USA would see it as securing it's own.

After that have things go down as OTL, Arch Duke Ferdinand assassinated, Austro-Hungarian Empire declares war on the Serbs, Russia jumps to their defense, Germany comes to aid Austria-Hungary, the French alliance with Russia means that they go to war with both Austria-Hungary. The British sit it out initially, but when Russia troops cross Turkey's border (You are going to need a much weaker Ottoman Empire to get the Russians to be at a strength to pull this off.), they declare war on Russia, for breaking the Treaty of Sevastopol. The USA seeing the way the war is going, the possible risks of a British Hegemony in Europe on it's security, along with pleas from Russia announce their deceleration of war against Britain, Turkey, Germany, Austro-Hungary and their allies. Japan and Italy is tempted by both sides to join the war, but Japan eventually sides with The British Empire, while Italy chooses neutrality (until the final year of the war.).


The French war effort immediately shows how unprepared they were for the war. Within months of the war start German/British offensive is within 20 miles of Paris, but it grinds to a halt, when the French start throwing huge amounts of men against the advancing troops. The stalemate continues throughout most of the war with the French slowly being pushed further and further to Paris.

In Russia their initial offensive goes well, pushing hard against the Germans and Austrians. It does not make the progress it needs in turkey though, with British/Colonial troops stalling the advance before it can reach Istanbul.

Initial fighting in North America allows the USA to make huge advances in Canada and by the end of the year most of Canada is under US control. Due to the size of Canada though, trained insurgents and rebel outfits will continue to prove an issue in the occupied territories for the rest of the war. Most fighting between the USA and the Imperial Alliance in this regions, consists of fighting in the North of the Atlantic. Germany and British navies will clash for the rest of the war with key battles being fought in the North Sea, the Caribbean and Bermuda islands.

Fighting is not restricted to the North though as French backed Brazil attacks British Guayna and British backed Venezuela. Colombia too joins the fight on the side of Venezuela. The Brazilians initial success is turned around in the face of brutal Jungle fighting. While the USA/Brazil does blockade the sea routes Venezuelan and Colombian forces exploit the Amazonian Rivers. In South America River Fleets battle for control of the important river ways to the Atlantic. Argentina and Chile maintain their neutrality throughout the war.

In the Pacific the reverse happens for the USA. Japan makes serious headway into the Pacific with the help of the British/German Colonial fleets. By the end of the first year the Philippians falls to Imperial Forces. The same cannot be said for Japan's advances in Russia. Japan immediately finds it facing a determined and well dug in opposition as opposed to the earlier Russian-Sino conflict. Though Japan has the numbers and Naval Superiority it is unable to breakthrough Russian lines.

About a year into war the USA will probably start to land troops in France. The British will probably score a lot of victories, but will eventually be forced to allow a limited USA landing in France. This will be a huge moral boost to the beleaguered French, but a moral hit for the USA when they discover how outclassed their French ally is. With the arrival of US troops the French manage to hold the British/German troops at Remis. Both sides being to dig in for a long battle of attrition.

The Second Year in North America sees the last Canadian city captured. The Canadian Government travels to Britain, while it's forces that didn't go to Europe remain to organise and lead resistance movements. Mexico is pressured by the US to join the war. Mexico seizes Belize within a week of it's deceleration. This proves to be disastrous for Mexico ruling government as the opposition groups see this as a betrayal of the Mexican people. Rebel movements popup throughout the country and the USA is forced to send troops to help the Mexican government put down the rebellions.

In the South America Theater the loss of Belize becomes a real blow to the British Naval efforts in the Caribbean. Limited to the Caribbean Islands, this becomes worse when a USA naval assault catches the defenders at Guyana by surprise. The assault it successful and British lose yet another port. Puerto Rico, Trinidad and Jamaica now become the single most important islands to the British War Effort in the Americas. In Britain the Admiralty recommends the abandonment of the Jamaica to consolidate what remains of the British Naval Assets to Trinidad and Puerto Rico. This refusal leading to the Battle of Bermuda. The British destroyers and a Battleship are caught by the US Atlantic Fleet. The resulting fighting destroys all but one of the destroyers. The battle proves to be a blow to British Moral and leads to the loss of the Bermuda Islands soon after.

In France the stalemate continues, slowly more US troops are arriving, but keeping the US troops supplied becomes more of an issue as the British actively hunt convoy fleets. Germany begins to mass troops in France to try an knock France out of the war. The German fleet becomes more committed in the Baltic sea due to the Russian use of Submersible ships to attack German shipping. Hunting these submersible fleets becomes a priority to the German Government. The Russians are unable to break the German defense of Grudziadz, while in Austro-Hungary the Austrian army is able to successfully counter attack the Russian forces at Lviv, breaking Russian liens and pushing the Russian forces to the outskirts of Warsaw. Inside Russia notable figures start to criticise the war effort, many having expected a quick and easy war. The Victory at Lviv proves to be costly to the Austro-Hungarian Empire too, as nationalist newpapers start to print the casualties of each culture.

In the Pacific Imperial Forces are held back from the complete conquest of Philippians by the arrival of a US Expeditionary force. The manages to hold several cities before being forced to withdraw to Midway and Hawaii due to rumors of an Imperial offensive being planned in the area. These rumors are unfounded but it does give the Imperial force time to consolidate it's control over the occupied territories. In the latter half of that year the USA starts to build up it's troops in preparation for an assault the occupied territories.

In Asia Japan is finally able to break the Russian defense via an amphibious landing Magdan. The Russian forces are forced to withdraw less they become surrounded. Though Japan is able to seize all Pacific bordering territory from Russia, they are unable to push any further into Russia. The Russian Pacific Navy links up with the US Pacific fleets in perpetration for a joint assault. The loss of this territory is a huge blow to Russia, now unable to receive supplies from the USA, Russia is forced to go through Iran to purchase the materials it needs. For Japan this victory revitalises the Japanese peoples support for the government and the war.

In South America and Turkey the stalemate continues with neither side able to make the key breakthrough.


The Third Year sees the USA go on the offensive in the Pacific. Over two hundred thousand US troops attack islands and occupied territory across the Pacific. At the same time Russian troops launch their offensive against the Japanese. Japan unprepared for an attack on both sides is forced to surrender the territory it had gained falling back to lines in Amur and Kharbrovsk. In the retreat thousands of Japanese troops are captured or killed. In the Philippines the US are able to make successful landing in the South, but are unable to advance further north. Another landing attempt is made on Papa New Guinea. Though the Imperial Forces put up a heavy resistance Papa New Guinea falls to US troops within a month of their landing. The Ferocity and force of the attack had caught the Imperial Alliance completely off guard. In the colonies cries for the war become louder. To deal with the US offensive the British begin to send more naval assets to the Pacific Theater. This will leave the British Home Fleet stretched.

In Europe the French and Russian armies motivated by this sudden reversal of fortunes launch their own offensives against the Imperial Alliance. France is able to push the British/Germans back only a few miles, while Austria is forced to leave Warsaw of face encirclement. The only place that did not see any measure of success for the Allies is Turkey where the offensive is not only defeated, but a promising German commander Rommel is able to push the Russians back and capture the Russian Black Sea fleet in a lighting raid on Sevastopol.

In South America the British take advantage of the USA's attention being focused in the Pacific and successfully manage to break the blockade outside Colombia and Venezuela. With supplies coming in for the first time since the outbreak of war Imperial forces in the region launch a daring attack on Guyana and Ampa, effectively pushing the war out of Colombia and Venezuela and for the first time fighting would take place in Brazil proper.

In North America Canadian Resistance fighters continue to be a problem with the US, their attacks now striking as far south as New England and Chicago. With the war dragging onto a fourth year the population Russia and the USA both begin to question the feasibility of continuing the war.

Year Five. Serbia falls to Austro-Hungarian troops. The last battle taking place in viscous urban fighting that seems much of the Serbian capital destroyed. A new weapon starts to appear in Imperial Forces, this weapon is called a tank. Slow and easy to focus artillery on these weapons become a beacon of fear for the enemy that face them. Impervious to small arms fire, the Imperial Forces begin mass productions of these immediately. Austro-Hungary launch their Spring Counter-Offensive against a tired and stretched Russian army. The attack successfully breaks through Russian lines. The Austrians using Calvary they had kept in reserve keep the Russians from being able to force a concentrated line, instead leading to Russian pockets, trapped and surrounded by advancing Imperial Forces. Germany too launches a lighting offensive against Russia, the combined forces push to less than 20 miles of St. Petersburg and Moscow. For the Russian Tsar the pressure is almost too much. His advisers begin to pressure him to arrange a ceasefire. Instead he chooses one final offensive to start at the end of the year.

France Falls in the Summer of that year. German and British troops report hearing fighting within French lines. It soon becomes apparent that the populist opposition had launched a coup against the Government without the full support of the French Military. While it could still claim to be the rightful government of France it sent an official declaration of surrender. The Imperial Forces accept the surrender, falling back to create a line stretching from Amiens to Basel. Germany annex's the territory from Basel to Nancy and Metz. The Remis Confederation is setup in the remaining territory to act as a buffer nation. All it's colonial territory would be awarded to the British Empire baring the colonies of Indochina, which would be awarded to Japan.

In the USA this is seen as a huge, but expected betrayal, with US troops already being pulled back from France a month before surrender. With the defeat of France, Germany troops are sent to support the offensive into Russia. The British use their free troops to launch their own offensive into Turkey liberating the country and going as far as the Caucus Mountains.

In the Pacific the situation slowly deteriorates as more Imperial Naval assets arrives in the theater. Forced to abandon several the Island they had taken the end of the year sees the Imperial Forces in prime position for an assault of Hawaii.

In Russia the Tsar order the final offensive of the war, The Autumn Charge. The Imperial Forces not expecting an offensive this late into the year, were caught by surprise as a million plus Russian troops attacked their lines. The offensive is a limited success, as it is able to push the Imperial Forces out of Russia in places, but is unable to achieve it's objective of taking Warsaw. The first day of the attack alone leads to the death of over 60,000 soldiers. After two weeks of assault the offensive breaks at Brest. By the end of the offensive over a 500,000 soldiers are dead. The Autumn Charge proves to the Tsar that Russia cannot win this war and in the USA the amount of casualties horrifies the US politicians.

On the 28th of November Russia and the USA ask for a Cease Fire. Brazil is only brought to cease fire when the a combined Imperial Force captures Sao Paulo.

Year Six.

The war ends the 16th of January that year, Russia agrees to surrender territory along the Baltic to Germany and that the buffer state of Poland be created under Germany control. Japan is allowed to annex all territory it currently holds in Russia. Russia creates the buffer state of Ukraine to border Austro-Hungary. Ukraine's border will stretch as far as Crimea east and Kurks in the north.

The USA is forced to release Canada and surrender is Pacific territory as far as Hawaii to Japan and Britain. Russia and the USA is forced to pay reparations numbering billions to members of the Imperial Alliance. They are also forces to scale down and reduce the amount of troops and ship at their disposal for the next ten years.

Brazil is forced to secede territory to Colombian and Venezuela, along with relinquishing all control of trade from the Amazonian Rivers. A buffer nation of Parha is created stretching as far as Amapa and Para.

Japan is the only nation amongst the victors that is not content with what it has gained. Soon after the war it's government is forced to become more democratic less it face rebellion. Elections begin later that year.

The British Empire stretched to the limit like never before it changed by it. The Colonies begin to demand independence sooner.

Germany comes out of this changed, a stronger and more powerful nation than ever. The real victor of this war.

For Austro-Hungary their victory though great was Phyric. The surge of pride for victory was not as long lasting as the Emperor had hoped. Withing two year Austro-Hungary would be gripped by nationalist crisis that would see the empire's end.



At some point my suggestion turned into a timeline. Sorry. :p
 

Dirk_Pitt

Banned
Honestly, I doubt the British would demand the return of Canada. The US holds it in its entirety and there's little to no real value in it. Britain would only want to maintain Nova Scotia and its naval base at Halifax.

You might see an independent Quebec and the western territories ceded to the US.

I'm reserved on the Pacific theater until I see a map of the final front lines there.
 
There's also a bigger problem.

Namely, shouldn't U.S. industrial capacity ramp up enough to eventually overwhelm the U.K. and Germany? Food for thought.
 
Honestly, I doubt the British would demand the return of Canada. The US holds it in its entirety and there's little to no real value in it. Britain would only want to maintain Nova Scotia and its naval base at Halifax.

You might see an independent Quebec and the western territories ceded to the US.

I'm reserved on the Pacific theater until I see a map of the final front lines there.

Say that with the Royal Navy and the High Seas Fleet shelling New York or Boston or Charleston back to the Stone Age.
 
Nice scenario, but I can't see Britain and Japan imposing their will on the United States. Long term, it's a loser for them, and they know it. What will probably happen is that the British and Japanese will concede North America, Hawaii and some of the US's Pacific gains for an 'independent' Phillipines and demilitarized Guam or something. There would be no Versailles-like reparations on the US, and certainly no dictating of US Armed Forces' size.

It is not in Britain's long-term interest to have the United States as a serious rival; not when Europe is so much closer.

Mike Turcotte
 
For this to happen you would need a very different buildup. A Germany that doesn't plan on competing with British Navy, a weaker France and a stronger Russia.

The British policy was to always ally with the third strongest nation in Europe, so that the second strongest could never overtake them. A stronger Russia seeking to expand into Europe would make Germany a more tempting ally, especially due to good relations, a related monarchy and no animosity because of a Germany Naval buildup. I would probably try and put France in the same positions as Pre-WW1 Russia. A large powerful nations, but strife with internal conflict and dissident. While the British have allied with the French in the past, they would probably be hesitant in France's domestic situation was less than stable.

How you get the USA involved can be done three ways. One the Venezuela Crisis goes down a bad way and leaves the USA with a bloody nose. The loss of Puerto Rico and loss of influence in Cuba. The second is the USA intervening in an earlier Russian-Sino war. The Japanese repeat their initial success, but due to Japan's alliance with the British, it is feared that Japan's success would put the USA at the risk. The USA intervene on behalf of Russia and the British intervene on the behalf of Japan. Calmer heads prevail and the USA/UK agree to end the conflict with minimal exchange of territory. Japan is annoyed by the UK and angered by the USA, while Russian relations with the USA sore ever higher. Or option number 3, a combination of the two above.

The USA and the UK need to but heads more often to lead to the sort of tension. USA allying with Russia would be seen as a definite risk to European security, while the USA would see it as securing it's own.

After that have things go down as OTL, Arch Duke Ferdinand assassinated, Austro-Hungarian Empire declares war on the Serbs, Russia jumps to their defense, Germany comes to aid Austria-Hungary, the French alliance with Russia means that they go to war with both Austria-Hungary. The British sit it out initially, but when Russia troops cross Turkey's border (You are going to need a much weaker Ottoman Empire to get the Russians to be at a strength to pull this off.), they declare war on Russia, for breaking the Treaty of Sevastopol. The USA seeing the way the war is going, the possible risks of a British Hegemony in Europe on it's security, along with pleas from Russia announce their deceleration of war against Britain, Turkey, Germany, Austro-Hungary and their allies. Japan and Italy is tempted by both sides to join the war, but Japan eventually sides with The British Empire, while Italy chooses neutrality (until the final year of the war.).


The French war effort immediately shows how unprepared they were for the war. Within months of the war start German/British offensive is within 20 miles of Paris, but it grinds to a halt, when the French start throwing huge amounts of men against the advancing troops. The stalemate continues throughout most of the war with the French slowly being pushed further and further to Paris.

In Russia their initial offensive goes well, pushing hard against the Germans and Austrians. It does not make the progress it needs in turkey though, with British/Colonial troops stalling the advance before it can reach Istanbul.

Initial fighting in North America allows the USA to make huge advances in Canada and by the end of the year most of Canada is under US control. Due to the size of Canada though, trained insurgents and rebel outfits will continue to prove an issue in the occupied territories for the rest of the war. Most fighting between the USA and the Imperial Alliance in this regions, consists of fighting in the North of the Atlantic. Germany and British navies will clash for the rest of the war with key battles being fought in the North Sea, the Caribbean and Bermuda islands.

Fighting is not restricted to the North though as French backed Brazil attacks British Guayna and British backed Venezuela. Colombia too joins the fight on the side of Venezuela. The Brazilians initial success is turned around in the face of brutal Jungle fighting. While the USA/Brazil does blockade the sea routes Venezuelan and Colombian forces exploit the Amazonian Rivers. In South America River Fleets battle for control of the important river ways to the Atlantic. Argentina and Chile maintain their neutrality throughout the war.

In the Pacific the reverse happens for the USA. Japan makes serious headway into the Pacific with the help of the British/German Colonial fleets. By the end of the first year the Philippians falls to Imperial Forces. The same cannot be said for Japan's advances in Russia. Japan immediately finds it facing a determined and well dug in opposition as opposed to the earlier Russian-Sino conflict. Though Japan has the numbers and Naval Superiority it is unable to breakthrough Russian lines.

About a year into war the USA will probably start to land troops in France. The British will probably score a lot of victories, but will eventually be forced to allow a limited USA landing in France. This will be a huge moral boost to the beleaguered French, but a moral hit for the USA when they discover how outclassed their French ally is. With the arrival of US troops the French manage to hold the British/German troops at Remis. Both sides being to dig in for a long battle of attrition.

The Second Year in North America sees the last Canadian city captured. The Canadian Government travels to Britain, while it's forces that didn't go to Europe remain to organise and lead resistance movements. Mexico is pressured by the US to join the war. Mexico seizes Belize within a week of it's deceleration. This proves to be disastrous for Mexico ruling government as the opposition groups see this as a betrayal of the Mexican people. Rebel movements popup throughout the country and the USA is forced to send troops to help the Mexican government put down the rebellions.

In the South America Theater the loss of Belize becomes a real blow to the British Naval efforts in the Caribbean. Limited to the Caribbean Islands, this becomes worse when a USA naval assault catches the defenders at Guyana by surprise. The assault it successful and British lose yet another port. Puerto Rico, Trinidad and Jamaica now become the single most important islands to the British War Effort in the Americas. In Britain the Admiralty recommends the abandonment of the Jamaica to consolidate what remains of the British Naval Assets to Trinidad and Puerto Rico. This refusal leading to the Battle of Bermuda. The British destroyers and a Battleship are caught by the US Atlantic Fleet. The resulting fighting destroys all but one of the destroyers. The battle proves to be a blow to British Moral and leads to the loss of the Bermuda Islands soon after.

In France the stalemate continues, slowly more US troops are arriving, but keeping the US troops supplied becomes more of an issue as the British actively hunt convoy fleets. Germany begins to mass troops in France to try an knock France out of the war. The German fleet becomes more committed in the Baltic sea due to the Russian use of Submersible ships to attack German shipping. Hunting these submersible fleets becomes a priority to the German Government. The Russians are unable to break the German defense of Grudziadz, while in Austro-Hungary the Austrian army is able to successfully counter attack the Russian forces at Lviv, breaking Russian liens and pushing the Russian forces to the outskirts of Warsaw. Inside Russia notable figures start to criticise the war effort, many having expected a quick and easy war. The Victory at Lviv proves to be costly to the Austro-Hungarian Empire too, as nationalist newpapers start to print the casualties of each culture.

In the Pacific Imperial Forces are held back from the complete conquest of Philippians by the arrival of a US Expeditionary force. The manages to hold several cities before being forced to withdraw to Midway and Hawaii due to rumors of an Imperial offensive being planned in the area. These rumors are unfounded but it does give the Imperial force time to consolidate it's control over the occupied territories. In the latter half of that year the USA starts to build up it's troops in preparation for an assault the occupied territories.

In Asia Japan is finally able to break the Russian defense via an amphibious landing Magdan. The Russian forces are forced to withdraw less they become surrounded. Though Japan is able to seize all Pacific bordering territory from Russia, they are unable to push any further into Russia. The Russian Pacific Navy links up with the US Pacific fleets in perpetration for a joint assault. The loss of this territory is a huge blow to Russia, now unable to receive supplies from the USA, Russia is forced to go through Iran to purchase the materials it needs. For Japan this victory revitalises the Japanese peoples support for the government and the war.

In South America and Turkey the stalemate continues with neither side able to make the key breakthrough.


The Third Year sees the USA go on the offensive in the Pacific. Over two hundred thousand US troops attack islands and occupied territory across the Pacific. At the same time Russian troops launch their offensive against the Japanese. Japan unprepared for an attack on both sides is forced to surrender the territory it had gained falling back to lines in Amur and Kharbrovsk. In the retreat thousands of Japanese troops are captured or killed. In the Philippines the US are able to make successful landing in the South, but are unable to advance further north. Another landing attempt is made on Papa New Guinea. Though the Imperial Forces put up a heavy resistance Papa New Guinea falls to US troops within a month of their landing. The Ferocity and force of the attack had caught the Imperial Alliance completely off guard. In the colonies cries for the war become louder. To deal with the US offensive the British begin to send more naval assets to the Pacific Theater. This will leave the British Home Fleet stretched.

In Europe the French and Russian armies motivated by this sudden reversal of fortunes launch their own offensives against the Imperial Alliance. France is able to push the British/Germans back only a few miles, while Austria is forced to leave Warsaw of face encirclement. The only place that did not see any measure of success for the Allies is Turkey where the offensive is not only defeated, but a promising German commander Rommel is able to push the Russians back and capture the Russian Black Sea fleet in a lighting raid on Sevastopol.

In South America the British take advantage of the USA's attention being focused in the Pacific and successfully manage to break the blockade outside Colombia and Venezuela. With supplies coming in for the first time since the outbreak of war Imperial forces in the region launch a daring attack on Guyana and Ampa, effectively pushing the war out of Colombia and Venezuela and for the first time fighting would take place in Brazil proper.

In North America Canadian Resistance fighters continue to be a problem with the US, their attacks now striking as far south as New England and Chicago. With the war dragging onto a fourth year the population Russia and the USA both begin to question the feasibility of continuing the war.

Year Five. Serbia falls to Austro-Hungarian troops. The last battle taking place in viscous urban fighting that seems much of the Serbian capital destroyed. A new weapon starts to appear in Imperial Forces, this weapon is called a tank. Slow and easy to focus artillery on these weapons become a beacon of fear for the enemy that face them. Impervious to small arms fire, the Imperial Forces begin mass productions of these immediately. Austro-Hungary launch their Spring Counter-Offensive against a tired and stretched Russian army. The attack successfully breaks through Russian lines. The Austrians using Calvary they had kept in reserve keep the Russians from being able to force a concentrated line, instead leading to Russian pockets, trapped and surrounded by advancing Imperial Forces. Germany too launches a lighting offensive against Russia, the combined forces push to less than 20 miles of St. Petersburg and Moscow. For the Russian Tsar the pressure is almost too much. His advisers begin to pressure him to arrange a ceasefire. Instead he chooses one final offensive to start at the end of the year.

France Falls in the Summer of that year. German and British troops report hearing fighting within French lines. It soon becomes apparent that the populist opposition had launched a coup against the Government without the full support of the French Military. While it could still claim to be the rightful government of France it sent an official declaration of surrender. The Imperial Forces accept the surrender, falling back to create a line stretching from Amiens to Basel. Germany annex's the territory from Basel to Nancy and Metz. The Remis Confederation is setup in the remaining territory to act as a buffer nation. All it's colonial territory would be awarded to the British Empire baring the colonies of Indochina, which would be awarded to Japan.

In the USA this is seen as a huge, but expected betrayal, with US troops already being pulled back from France a month before surrender. With the defeat of France, Germany troops are sent to support the offensive into Russia. The British use their free troops to launch their own offensive into Turkey liberating the country and going as far as the Caucus Mountains.

In the Pacific the situation slowly deteriorates as more Imperial Naval assets arrives in the theater. Forced to abandon several the Island they had taken the end of the year sees the Imperial Forces in prime position for an assault of Hawaii.

In Russia the Tsar order the final offensive of the war, The Autumn Charge. The Imperial Forces not expecting an offensive this late into the year, were caught by surprise as a million plus Russian troops attacked their lines. The offensive is a limited success, as it is able to push the Imperial Forces out of Russia in places, but is unable to achieve it's objective of taking Warsaw. The first day of the attack alone leads to the death of over 60,000 soldiers. After two weeks of assault the offensive breaks at Brest. By the end of the offensive over a 500,000 soldiers are dead. The Autumn Charge proves to the Tsar that Russia cannot win this war and in the USA the amount of casualties horrifies the US politicians.

On the 28th of November Russia and the USA ask for a Cease Fire. Brazil is only brought to cease fire when the a combined Imperial Force captures Sao Paulo.

Year Six.

The war ends the 16th of January that year, Russia agrees to surrender territory along the Baltic to Germany and that the buffer state of Poland be created under Germany control. Japan is allowed to annex all territory it currently holds in Russia. Russia creates the buffer state of Ukraine to border Austro-Hungary. Ukraine's border will stretch as far as Crimea east and Kurks in the north.

The USA is forced to release Canada and surrender is Pacific territory as far as Hawaii to Japan and Britain. Russia and the USA is forced to pay reparations numbering billions to members of the Imperial Alliance. They are also forces to scale down and reduce the amount of troops and ship at their disposal for the next ten years.

Brazil is forced to secede territory to Colombian and Venezuela, along with relinquishing all control of trade from the Amazonian Rivers. A buffer nation of Parha is created stretching as far as Amapa and Para.

Japan is the only nation amongst the victors that is not content with what it has gained. Soon after the war it's government is forced to become more democratic less it face rebellion. Elections begin later that year.

The British Empire stretched to the limit like never before it changed by it. The Colonies begin to demand independence sooner.

Germany comes out of this changed, a stronger and more powerful nation than ever. The real victor of this war.

For Austro-Hungary their victory though great was Phyric. The surge of pride for victory was not as long lasting as the Emperor had hoped. Withing two year Austro-Hungary would be gripped by nationalist crisis that would see the empire's end.



At some point my suggestion turned into a timeline. Sorry. :p

Nice work.
I could see the American supplying rebels in Ireland with weapons and the Irish war of independence starting early.
 
Nice work.
I could see the American supplying rebels in Ireland with weapons and the Irish war of independence starting early.
Yeah, the British really aren't in a position to dictate much if anything to the US here. The US might be willing to surrender the Philippines (which were already becoming more trouble than they were worth; there's a reason the US was planning to let them go even before WWII intervened OTL), and could probably surrender their gains in Canada, but that's about it. The UK and its allies really aren't in any position to enforce any limits on the American military (even less so than the original Versailles limits) and American politicians wouldn't accept it. The US was mostly self-sufficient (unlike Germany), so a blockade can't bring it to its knees, and any British attempt at a trans-Atlantic (!) invasion is likely to make Gallipoli look easy.

In many ways its the flipside of Sealion: the 1910s US is too weak to threaten the British (beyond taking Canada and maybe a few other Western-hemisphere colonies), but the logistics are too difficult for an invasion of the US heartland, which is basically what would be required to knock the US out of the war on unfavorable terms. So both sides stare at each other until they come to a more-or-less white peace.

If the US has major European allies, the effort to break them would probably drain the UK enough that they would be eager to make peace with the US rather than continuing to fight (consider the history of the Treaty of Sevres as an example of what happened when one of the Central Powers refused to accept the Entente terms).

As for the more general question? The Royal Navy is probably sufficient to prevent the US from sending significant forces to any European ally (although if that ally has a major fleet like Imperial Germany's, they can probably tie up enough of the Royal Navy to give the US local naval superiority, especially since any war would probably be preceded by rising tensions that give the US more time to build up).

So the US wins in the Americas, the British (probably, depending on alliances) win in Europe, and neither side can touch each other.
 
I think that this is a more interesting scenario then the usual Germany-US alliance that is bandied about.

Also a heck of a lot realistic. At the turn of the century, a Germany-UK-Austria vs. France-Russia war was more plausible than a UK-France-Russia vs. Germany-Austria one, while Germany and the US were never on good terms. If you could get Germany to be less antagonising towards the UK and get the UK to ignore the Treaty of London, they could quite easily ally.


To be honest, I don't think the Battle of Canada would be quite as much of a walkover as you seem to think. Yes, America would make some serious advances into Canada, especially in the West, unless the Japanese arrive with serious forces, but certainly in the East, Britain will be able to maintain a sizable presence, possibly even advancing into Maine. Also, with Britain on the side of Germany, they can and will open up extra fronts in France, which means France will probably fall and relatively quickly, depending on whose side Italy is on, allowing Britain to take on America on Canadian soil with its full force while Germany and Austria kick the pants off Russia. From here, it will probably be just America and the UK grinding troops at each other, Britain will probably take Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands, and Japan will probably take Wake and Midway and possibly Hawaii, but on land, Britain will probably expand their pocket, but not by enough to be meaningful and likely not onto US soil. America will probably surrender after the fall of Russia, but it won't be an unconditional one, and there may be mild reparations, but nothing more (they can come from France and Russia).
 
Actually I think the Americans will walkover Canada (although Plan Red called for an immediate initial attack on Halifax which the US lost in most wargames). The point is that the US versus UK, Germany and Japan is a naval nightmare for the US. Especially if the Three Empires can take and hold the Panama Canal. The US has got to last in terms of morale and outproduce those three nations who may or may not now be in possession of some element of the French (and Italian regardless of which way they jumped) fleets.

And as an Irishman I am always irritated by the one way gun running in these scenarios. The good old democratic US supplies guns to the Irish to debilitate the UK. Bugger that. I imagine a handful of Canucks and Southern African Americans would be glad of a Lee-Enfield. Either that or turn Mexico into an early US Vietnam by supplying the anti-US revolutionaries. Or perhaps both.:cool:
 
Actually I think the Americans will walkover Canada (although Plan Red called for an immediate initial attack on Halifax which the US lost in most wargames). The point is that the US versus UK, Germany and Japan is a naval nightmare for the US. Especially if the Three Empires can take and hold the Panama Canal. The US has got to last in terms of morale and outproduce those three nations who may or may not now be in possession of some element of the French (and Italian regardless of which way they jumped) fleets.

And as an Irishman I am always irritated by the one way gun running in these scenarios. The good old democratic US supplies guns to the Irish to debilitate the UK. Bugger that. I imagine a handful of Canucks and Southern African Americans would be glad of a Lee-Enfield. Either that or turn Mexico into an early US Vietnam by supplying the anti-US revolutionaries. Or perhaps both.:cool:
Sure it's a naval nightmare, but that goes for everybody (and if the US is getting involved in Great Power alliances, it probably builds its fleet up significantly more than OTL). The supply lines are so incredibly long (and the coastline likewise) that no one could possibly maintain a blockade of the US, even with significant naval superiority. Even if they could, the US was more or less self-sufficient, and wouldn't really be effected to nearly the degree that Germany was.

Also, the coastline would provide plenty of bases for submarine warfare, which the US would almost certainly use against anyone trying to supply Canada.

But the biggest problem is that the UK and its allies could have the biggest army in the world, but if they lose Canada, they can't really strike at the US at all. British amphibious operations throughout WWI were almost uniformly disastrous, and were operating from much more convenient bases than anything they would have in an invasion of the American continent. The US had invested heavily in coastal fortifications, and a war scare would likely see this spending continued and expanded. Given how heavily WWI-era warfare favored the defense, I expect any landings would get bottled up and forced to withdraw. The US would get a morale boost, and the British would get a bloody nose. Obviously the reverse is true of any US attempt to invade Europe, but I expect the US would be mostly content to occupy Canada, maybe strike at a few other colonies, and then dig in. They really have no other option.

As for arming American rebels, there wasn't really an equivalent to Ireland in 1910s US. Mexico is certainly a possibility, but odds are that any weapons sent there will be used to kill other Mexicans (assuming Mexico still follows its OTL period of revolutions and civil wars); I expect harm to the US will be minimal.
 
And again, doesn't the U.S. industrial capacity eventually allow them to essentially just drown their opponents in more equipment than they can produce?

Granted, yes, that'd take time, although its worth noting this scenario very possibly has the U.S. re-militarizing earlier.

Also, yes, there's no way the U.K., Japan, ect. can dictate terms to the United States, not anywhere near reparation or Versaills levels. They can't blockade it, unlike with Germany in OTL, and are unlikely to be able to place troops in the country proper either.


On another note, what would the long term impacts of such a conflict be?
 
And again, doesn't the U.S. industrial capacity eventually allow them to essentially just drown their opponents in more equipment than they can produce?

Granted, yes, that'd take time, although its worth noting this scenario very possibly has the U.S. re-militarizing earlier.

Also, yes, there's no way the U.K., Japan, ect. can dictate terms to the United States, not anywhere near reparation or Versaills levels. They can't blockade it, unlike with Germany in OTL, and are unlikely to be able to place troops in the country proper either.


On another note, what would the long term impacts of such a conflict be?

Quite true. A crash naval building program and the US would soon be able to outnumber Britain on the seas.
 
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